Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => Gear => Topic started by: Jack_Spade on <06-18-18/1640:50>
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Browsing the newly released Street Lethal source book, I find some very high strung SciFi stuff like (Anti-)Grav Drives (Not for runners to purchase), some nice additions for Small Unit Tactics maneuvers and lots and lots of vendor trash weapons that come with one gimmick that isn't really worth it or awesome but impractical.
That said, there are a few real gems in it:
The Winchester Airbow is a gun that shoots arrows - and therefore an ideal weapon for alchemists who aren't trolls.
LONE STAR’S BATES-BROWN TACTICAL COMBAT BOOTS have insane AP -4 with STR+2, are legal and down't occupy your hands. The ACC of 4 is bad, but once you turn them into a weapon focus and add the correct bond, that limit is no longer an issue.
Finally, there is the red dot sight, giving you +1 ACC and +1 dice at short range without needing to be wireless.
Honorable Mention to the PSG Enforcer Sniper Rifle that's just a bit more expensive than the Cavalier Arms Crockett EBR, doesn't have BF, but has -4 AP, making it a prime candidate for SA Bull's Eye Burst.
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Just gave it once over, lots of stuff to take in. I like some of more outlandish tech stuff, great fodder for deepest darkest Corp labs. Got some supression rules for HV weapons. Another mention of cyber Zombies but still no rules for them. New fab tech even though still missing some of fab rules.
Like info on security and mercs and some merc haven info without feeling like reading travelouge like some previous editions.
All in all a lot to take in and even with just quick once over found myself drawn into several sections. Enjoying writing and the creativity.
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the anti-grav stuff is nutso imho.
especially the idea of sticking it in a grenade?!
it makes zero sense, really.
the boots are quite a bit OP imho.
otherwise some ok stuff in the book.
Browsing the newly released Street Lethal source book, I find some very high strung SciFi stuff like (Anti-)Grav Drives (Not for runners to purchase), some nice additions for Small Unit Tactics maneuvers and lots and lots of vendor trash weapons that come with one gimmick that isn't really worth it or awesome but impractical.
That said, there are a few real gems in it:
The Winchester Airbow is a gun that shoots arrows - and therefore an ideal weapon for alchemists who aren't trolls.
LONE STAR’S BATES-BROWN TACTICAL COMBAT BOOTS have insane AP -4 with STR+2, are legal and down't occupy your hands. The ACC of 4 is bad, but once you turn them into a weapon focus and add the correct bond, that limit is no longer an issue.
Finally, there is the red dot sight, giving you +1 ACC and +1 dice at short range without needing to be wireless.
Honorable Mention to the PSG Enforcer Sniper Rifle that's just a bit more expensive than the Cavalier Arms Crockett EBR, doesn't have BF, but has -4 AP, making it a prime candidate for SA Bull's Eye Burst.
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So a troll/orc melee adept formerly of Hard Corps with the moniker Stumper? In the making!
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I really enjoyed the meta update, it looks like the perfect time to make that Ex-Fire Watch Character as far the meta goes.
Getting the weapons for NT was also nice. Also some very solid NPC stats, that prof 5 combat mage was a cool read.
The thing that jumped out at me was the Blood Drinker Combat Axe, P-Limit Accuracy, legal starting, a very nice piece of hardware, and not even the cheesiest weapon in there.
Some interesting qualities, and of course Small unit Tactics I think is the overall winner for me, I felt like we hadn't been getting good use out of leadership rules in 5th.
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Yeah I'm liking it! Nice to see underused categories like holdouts getting some love as well
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I really like the heavy pistol taser. We are lucky it's a gun so we can actually get meaningful to it's accuracy.
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Some of the stuff in the experimental tech chapter is interesting form a metaplot perspective. Lots of stuff that's currently high tier would be vulnerable. A unit of mundanes armed with plasma rifles would actually be capable of presenting a serious threat threat to insect spirits, dragons, etc. since The DV and AP on those are high enough to rip right through ITNW and Hardened Armor. It's not enough by itself, since mundanes are obviously still hella vulnerable to a variety of spells, but it's interesting none the less... Of 'course that only applies if that stuff winds up showing up more in the future metaplots (which it very well may not.)
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I really like the heavy pistol taser. We are lucky it's a gun so we can actually get meaningful to it's accuracy.
At first look I thought so too, but if you get closer into the blurb you realize that the thing is nothing to write home about:
It's direct competition is the Defiance Ex-Shocker:
The Tingler has one more DV but one worse ACC. With higher dp that means the Tingler will do equal damage on a hit but hit less often. It only has two shots and is SS, so it can't benefit from Double Tap or SA Burst. Finally, it's harder to conceal than the other tasers, while costing only 10 Nuyen less than the Defiance. Also you don't get the neat Bio-Monitor effect of the Defiance or it's ability to be used as a melee weapon.
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I really like the heavy pistol taser. We are lucky it's a gun so we can actually get meaningful to it's accuracy.
At first look I thought so too, but if you get closer into the blurb you realize that the thing is nothing to write home about:
It's direct competition is the Defiance Ex-Shocker:
The Tingler has one more DV but one worse ACC. With higher dp that means the Tingler will do equal damage on a hit but hit less often. It only has two shots and is SS, so it can't benefit from Double Tap or SA Burst. Finally, it's harder to conceal than the other tasers, while costing only 10 Nuyen less than the Defiance. Also you don't get the neat Bio-Monitor effect of the Defiance or it's ability to be used as a melee weapon.
Does it allow full heavy pistol range? If it does, that could give it an interesting niche.
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One more damage? I have the Tingler's DV as 11S(e) in my notes. (At work and away from my book.) Was that changed?
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It's 10S(e) in the book. And I'm sure it's taser range as it doesn't say anything else about it.
Your points are legit Jack, I still think it's fun. But it would be nicer if it was 11S(e)
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Hmm. Well, all the math I did to balance it with the available tasers was done at 11DV. :o
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Good to know, that would indeed have given it a competitive edge.
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I guess that one for the errata team then?
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I guess that one for the errata team then?
Maaaybe? I'm not sure if it was changed deliberately after I submitted it or if somehow things got messed up importing my manuscript to the publishing platform. If it's the latter, then yes. If it's the former, then it's not actually an error, so no. I tweak stuff other people write all the time, so I'm not going to cry too much if someone tweaked something of mine.
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We'll do the crying for you. ;) #Thistasergoesto11
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We'll do the crying for you. ;) #Thistasergoesto11
I dig it #Thistasergoesto11
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I think that's reason enough to errata the damage code to 11. :D
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I was wondering how much Plasma rounds cost actually. Not listed anywhere.
So only the number you can find in the lab?
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I was wondering how much Plasma rounds cost actually. Not listed anywhere.
So only the number you can find in the lab?
N/A. Or if your GM is super nice, some stupidly high number with a stupidly high availability. Nothing in that chapter is intended to be for sale to runners(In a traditional campaign.) They're supposed to be essentially plot objects, either for individual runs or whole campaign arcs.
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We'll do the crying for you. ;) #Thistasergoesto11
Given as it is a Krime weapon I support #thistasergoesto11
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Time for a bit of gear analysis - as always imho and ymmv:
Krime Bill: variable reach and concealability otherwise identical to a normal pole arm (+)
Krime Reaver: Cheap multipurpose weapon. Would have potential if the Knob would do stun damage. As it is, there is no reason to use the Knob. The high AP option is only useful against hardened armor targets, and even there only marginal (0)
Krime Shiv: Shitty multitool with a blade less effective than a combat knife. Reach makes it somewhat competitive (0)
Macuahitl: Brittle sword that has no stats better than a normal sword but is 6 times as expensive (-)
Modern Macuahitl: Even worse (--)
Nodachi: Stats of a Highland Forge Claymore but with better availability and lower cost (++)
Fluid-Motion-Mace: Unrestricted, high damage, low ACC melee weapon (0)
Gunstock War Club: higher ACC and AP then a normal club (+), Thrown option would be nice, except for the exotic ranged skill necessary (-)
Nunchacku: Decent damage and acc, option to use garrote rules with clubs makes this good (+)
Tonfa: Good damage but bad ACC makes custom grip and two-weapon style attack necessary to use the defensive boni (0)
Krime Gloves: Knucks option is worse then real knucks, stun option is adequat, price is competitive but nothing impressive (0)
Krime Stun Lance: High reach, damage, low costs but bad ACC and Exotic Melee Skill makes this a weapon best suited for drones and vehicles with articulated arms, for everyone else the Maul Stun Staff is the better option (0)
Krime Trollbow: Bad ACC and damage as blade, as bow it's far worse in every aspect then the normal bow. Trash! (---)
Winchester Airbow: Gun that shoots arrows as a STR 8 person with many mod slots. The dream of any skinny alchemist (++)
Krime Tingler: Worse then a Defiance EX despite higher base damage (-)
Narcoject One: There is absolutely no reason to buy this instead of a modded Streetline Special with capsule rounds (--)
Raecor Sting: Worse version than a Tiffany Needler at a third of the price and MAD protected. Probably the cheapest hard to detect gun available (+)
Terracotta Arms Pub: Cheaper to by a modded Streeline Special (-)
Browning Ghost: Easy to conceal but no protection against MAD - Modded Streetline Special in a special holster will be the better option. (0)
Colt Coral Snake: Size and damage of a light pistol with the range and AP of a heavy pistol and really bad magazine capacity. Limited applicability in game (0)
Ares Striker: Unhackable throwback gun - good buy (+)
Barrens Special: Cheap gun for mooks - not for players intended unless they are really strapped for cash (0)
Browning Phantom: Heavy version of the Ghost, expensive - better use a modded predator with chameleon coating (0)
Cavalier Champion: High damage and range, low ammo cap can be mitigated by adept powers, making this decent (+)
Cavalier Thuderstruck: Inferior to the Savalette Guardian (-)
Hammerli Gemini: Lower damage must be compensated through the gimmick of two barrels. No SA Burst option. Only redeeming feature is the high AP (0)
HK Urban Fighter: Assassin's weapon of choice - a classic (+)
Morrissey Alta: Nothing special except being forbidden for some reason and still being accepted in polite society - really doesn't make sense (-)
Morrissey Elite: Bad ACC, ammo cap and range does not make up the better concealability (-)
Nemesis Arms Praetorian: A gun with a bayonette - only slightly better then the Barrens Special (0)
Onotario Arms Vagabond: SA makes this slightly better than a Ruger Warhawk despite lower damage (+)
WW Infiltrator: Heavier version of the Puzzler with better stats (+)
Cavalier Flash: Armslide option makes this Machine Pistol a decent choice - even if it is expensive. If you can live without that, stay with the Remmington Suppressor (0)
Esprit Tsunami: A bit less effective than the Ingram Smartgun, but safe targeting makes this an interesting target for hackers (0)
Onotari Arms S-3K: Worse than the Ingram statwise, concealability makes this somewhat up (0)
Ares Stalwart: If you want a carbine it's a good choice (+)
Colt M23A2: Chamberdesign recoil comp makes this just a bit better than a modded Stalwart (+)
Izom Artimis: Single shot grenade launcher makes this a corner case: Better get an AK98 (0)
Cavalier Frontier: Mod an AK 97 and you get a better gun but for slightly higher costs. Reverses if you want an internal smart gun (0)
Krime Happiness: Garbage. Only interesting on fire support drones that can use sensor targeting (-)
Onotari HL-13: Cheaper to get three different guns (-)
PSG Enforcer: Slightly more expensive then a Crockett, but higher AP and more Ammo (from two different slots) make this interesting enough - especially on high flying drones (++)
Beretta Northstar: Modded REMINGTON 990 is cheaper an equally effective (-)
Krime Boom: Cheap FA shotgun, but hard to get. At 12F Ava would be a real gem, but as it is you are better of getting an Auto Assault later on (0)
Krime Whammy: Gimmicky weapon with no redeeming qualities compared to a solid shotgun with melee mods (-)
MINIGUNKRIME TRIPLE SERIES: The Troll version is interesting - after that, even the Krime Happiness is better. (0)
HK 82A1: RC on a SS weapon? The launcher has problems with long range - better buy the Izom and for 300 Nuyen more you get a carbine added and no problems with your launcher. (-)
M79B1 LAW Rocket: Cheap but only fires AV missiles/rockets - those are so hard to get and expensive that you could as well invest into a better rocket launcher (-)
PHALANX SYSTEMS VOGELJÄGER II MISSILE LAUNCHER: Scatter Reroll makes this slightly better than the core Aztech Striker (0)
TERRACOTTA X-6 MGL: Another RC on a SS weapon. Cheaper than the Antioch, but really not better then an underbarrel grenade launcher - just get an AK98
NARCOJECT GAS GUN: Yeah, no. Just use gas grenades: Short range and allowing defense makes this weapon just worse then grenades (-)
NARCOJECT PEP: Exotic ranged weapon that is best suited for drones and vehicles, but has good stats and is entirely energy dependent. (0)
NARCOJECT TRACKSTOPPER: Better use the stuff in grenades: Low ammo and single target attack make this not particularly desirable (-)
STONER-ARES M-22A1: Nice to see this outside the Bumblebee (+)
AZTECHNOLOGY BLOOD DRINKER COMBAT AXE: Apparently no reach, but it's definitely a good weapon for any adept with extremely high accuracy potential (+++)
YAMATETSU NAVAL TECHNOLOGIES RAMPART PORTABLE BALLISTIC EMPLACEMENT: Get them for your car (++)
COMMLINK WEAPONS: No, just no. There are better ways to conceal weapons (-)
REMINGTON 995 “BUZZSAW” SHOTGUN: Nice idea, terrible rules execution. ACC is seldom the problem if you want to destroy barriers (-)
BATES-BROWN TACTICAL COMBAT BOOTS: Amazing high damage and AP for unarmed attacks. Kicking in doors was never easier (+++)
WINCHESTER-HOWE HORNET DIRECT-FIRE MINI-GRENADE: Nice idea if you want to burst fire with a grenade launcher, but honestly, just get an Ares Alpha and use the gun part to do the BF (0)
RENRAKU RED SAMURAI KATANA: Higher AP but lower ACC than a normal Katana? Thanks, but no thanks Mr. Red Samurai. You can keep that PoS (--)
INGRAM SUPERMACH 2000 SMG: Hahahaha. You think higher AP can save this sup par damage? A modded Ingram Smartgun outperforms this thing easily and cheaper (--)
ONOTARI ARMS SILENT CLAW STILETTO: Nice fluff, but a combat knife will outperform this thing easily (0)
SHIAWASE/NEMESIS ARMS MAN-CATCHER: unreliable, expensive and no real problem for the combat pros - you know, the guys you want to immobilize first (-)
WUXING-ARMTECH PTL-02: Great under water weapon (+)
Weapon Mod:
ADDITIONAL CLIP/MAGAZINE: Amazing for the right weapon, doesn't seem to take up a slot and provides extra fun with drum magazines. (++)
Krime Pack: Pink Mohawk games will love these... (+)
KRIME STUN-O-NET: Underbarrel Stunstaff with slightly higher damage then a glove (+)
NARCOJECT DAZZLER: A great tool for vampire hunters and other light UV sensitive critters (+)
Red Dot Sight: Low Tech with a bonus die, great (++)
Armor:
URBAN EXPLORER DAEDALUS: Wing Suite that's cheaper then most normal clothes. Anyone's guess what the top slot of an armor is, but at least we have the cost for one type of parachute. (+)
ARES ARMS BUG STOMPER CUSTOM ARMOR: Heavy Armor without the movement restrictions. Great if you can get it (++)
Future Tech:
DSP GRENADE: Singularily bad description how this is supposed to work by the rules: Talks about target's threshold and refers to the object resistance table for magic - which doesn't provide thresholds but dice pools. Seems like the sprite inside can affect natural objects easier then computers... Bad writer, no cookie for you (---)
HOT DROP RAPID-EGRESS JETPACK SYSTEM: as vehicles go, you'd be better off modding any other vehicle with the secondary propulsion system rotor. Actually you could rig the Jetpack System with one and get all around better performance from it. (0)
Anti-Grav Technology: This has soooooooo many problems that you'd be better of explaining it as space magic...
Puncher guns: Nice AP and range, can be somewhat replicated and surpassed with a high end Anti-Material Rifle and the Bull's eye burst called shot. (+)
Nerve guns: Incredibly complicated to use and less likely to hit than just using specialized ammo (-)
Nausea ammo: Just use capsule rounds with your drug of choice. (-)
Plasma Weapons: Boom, headshot. (++)
Healing Goop: One of the few ways to heal stun damage quickly (++)
AIMAD: Say hello to the men in black (+)
FAB-ULOUS ARMOR: Bad editing strikes again, but the 500 Nuyen for a 12S(e) AP -5 electric zapper mod sound much more promising then the one shot spell defense. (-)
Smart bullets: Gives new meaning to the phrase: "We don't need gun control, we need bullet control...". Cool plot hook for some Kenedy style shooting (+)
Maker Mags: 100 Nuyen per bullet? GTFO (--)
MPG: A pain gun that takes forever to knock someone out? Only for sadists (-)
MDG: With an external power source this has great potential to take down otherwise hard to control magic critters. (+)
SIDD: Doesn't stopp you from running away (0)
THMPA: Now we are talking: High AP and Stun in one package (++)
SPINRAD-GLOBAL SPINSTORM: Interesting concept (+)
Plasma Forcefield: More space magic (0)
BASES: BATTLEFIELD AUGMENTATION SOLDIER EXO-SYSTEM: At this point you are better off using a walker mod on personal vehicle and wear YNT Softweave FBA (-)
GREY GOO ARMOR EATER AMMO: An old hat if you use Smart Corrosives with capsule rounds (0)
GREY GOO PENETRATOR AMMO: Dito with Cutters (0)
FADER IC: Yeah, obviously technomancers did have it too good for too long... (0)
Vehicles:
MAERSK SHIPYARDS WAVECUTTER MPAC: Great for a pirate campaign and comparatively cheap (+)
Qualities:
Corporate Loyalist: The +2 to resist to any means to make you act against your corp are amazing - provided you work for the right corp... (+)
Location Attunement: +2 to Perception can be gotten with less hassle (0)
Natural Leader: A bit expensive for a +1 to very specific circumstances (0)
Observant: This is what Location Attunement would like to be when it grows up - it's as good as a flat +3 to perception
STAY OUT OF MY WAY: Yeah, that's so toxic that the player taking it shouldn't count on the ink on his char sheet to dry before it's ripped up... (---)
CORPORATE PARIAH: Slight problem with that one: You can't combine it with actually having a corporate SIN negative quality, otherwise this a kind of non-issue when you use fake SINs (0)
THIS IS YOUR LAST CHANCE: Kind of free karma and not really well thought out on the designer's part. Stuff like this should be strictly role played... (-)
BATTLE HARDENED: Great quality for people with low charisma who still want to be badasses in combat (++)
THOUSAND-YARD STARE: Yet another social dp penalty quality... (0)
NO MAN LEFT BEHIND: Good solid quality that improves team play (+)
EVERY MAN FOR HIMSELF: Selfish asshole play ahoi. A good indicator who to not hire for your team (-)
Combat Maneuvers:
CIRCLE THE WAGONS: Very situational, but a rigger could get quite a bit of milage from a small army of medium sized drones that suddenly increase their armor massively. Reason enough for a rigger to invest in the Mixed Unit Tactics (++)
DEFENSIVE FIRE: A very juicy bonus for suppressive fire attempts (+)
ENVELOP: Solid, if hard to employ tactic in typical play (+)
FLANK: Much easier then Envelop with nearly the same benefits adn without need for stealth (++)
HAMMER AND ANVIL: Similar to Envelop but with a Piloting Bonus and no need for stealth (++)
MOVE AND SHOOT: GROUP: Solid bonus with low difficulty (++)
NAP OF THE EARTH: Solid boni and another reason for Riggers to learn the skill (++)
COORDINATED EFFORT: Super easy to do with a very solid bonus (+++)
INDIRECT FIRE: Meh. Blind fire penalties aren't that big to begin with (0)
PAINT THE TARGET: Solid bonus, but nothing to write home about (+)
PENETRATING FIRE: Likely less effective for a group due to a lot of wasted potential, but can be a huge force multiplier with drone swarms (+)
SHIELD WALK: This one is huge: Defense and Armor bonus. This seems to be made for use with the Paladin drone: (+++)
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I thought Penetrating Fire could also have some niche use against high Force Spirits for a group of mundanes. Once they get big enough that even your APDS isn't doing anything, just pile it on until someone gets through. I do like that the highest net DV gets the boost, so one person Edges to get their DV up, everyone else just needs one net hit to contribute to the AP.
The Cavalier Flash scratches a very specific itch for which I am grateful, thank you.
And the Red Dot sight is going on every Gunslinger Adept ever. And every Samurai with an Internal Router. Wireless? Never heard of it, sounds stupid.
I do wish some of the Krime stuff had some slightly better stats, as it stands its pretty much an RP choice. I hate being penalized for choosing flavor, however minor.
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Two quick notes:
The Alta's Availability should be R, not F. That will be reflected in errata.
I think you're underestimating having a (cy) grenade launcher with an ammo select system.
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Future Tech:
Anti-Grav Technology: This has soooooooo many problems that you'd be better of explaining it as space magic...
Plasma Forcefield: More space magic (0)
TBF, there's more in this chapter (and in SR in general, if we're being honest) that's space magic than is not space magic... Not to mention the actual magic.
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Two quick notes:
The Alta's Availability should be R, not F. That will be reflected in errata.
I think you're underestimating having a (cy) grenade launcher with an ammo select system.
Did you ever find out whether the taser's damage should be 11 or not? #thistasergoesto11
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Two quick notes:
The Alta's Availability should be R, not F. That will be reflected in errata.
I think you're underestimating having a (cy) grenade launcher with an ammo select system.
Good to know.
Yeah, maybe. The X-6 MGL can use ammo select, but... Reloading is a simple action, hitting with a grenade requires only 3 successes - aiming usually not necessary, nor any other tricks that would need a complex action. That makes ammo select not really a necessity with SS grenade launchers.
If the thing was SA it would get (+++) immediately from me.
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It's is worth noting that, it's been suggested that, the 10S(e) on the tingler may actually a typo and it should be 11S(e).
#thistasergoesto11
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More weapon diversity!
#thistasergoesto11
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Time for a bit of gear analysis - as always imho and ymmv:
Krime Bill: variable reach and concealability otherwise identical to a normal pole arm (+)
Krime Reaver: Cheap multipurpose weapon. Would have potential if the Knob would do stun damage. As it is, there is no reason to use the Knob. The high AP option is only useful against hardened armor targets, and even there only marginal (0)
Krime Shiv: Shitty multitool with a blade less effective than a combat knife. Reach makes it somewhat competitive (0)
Krime Gloves: Knucks option is worse then real knucks, stun option is adequat, price is competitive but nothing impressive (0)
Krime Stun Lance: High reach, damage, low costs but bad ACC and Exotic Melee Skill makes this a weapon best suited for drones and vehicles with articulated arms, for everyone else the Maul Stun Staff is the better option (0)
Krime Trollbow: Bad ACC and damage as blade, as bow it's far worse in every aspect then the normal bow. Trash! (---)
Krime Tingler: Worse then a Defiance EX despite higher base damage (-)
Krime Happiness: Garbage. Only interesting on fire support drones that can use sensor targeting (-)
Krime Boom: Cheap FA shotgun, but hard to get. At 12F Ava would be a real gem, but as it is you are better of getting an Auto Assault later on (0)
Krime Whammy: Gimmicky weapon with no redeeming qualities compared to a solid shotgun with melee mods (-)
MINIGUNKRIME TRIPLE SERIES: The Troll version is interesting - after that, even the Krime Happiness is better. (0)
Krime Pack: Pink Mohawk games will love these... (+)
KRIME STUN-O-NET: Underbarrel Stunstaff with slightly higher damage then a glove (+)
Krime is pretty much the poster child for Pink Mohawk, Style-Over-Substance, Gimmicky things built to Troll Size, entirely based on "Rule Of Cool" and so on. And cheaply made at that, which is why the stats suck.
Also, the Krime Whammy isn't supposed to be used like a shotgun, it's supposed to be used like a warhammer, which then sets off the shotgun shell on impact for even further damage. So, yeah, it is the best "door breaching tool" on the market. ;D
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Honestly, the Krime stuff always struck me as being like Ork tech from 40k, but without the WAAAGH! to back it up and make it functional/useful. Some definite thought went into making it though. And the concept of a Troll in Milspec with a Krimepack shoulder firing an M2 is pretty awesome...
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@CanRay
that might have been the intention for the Krime Whammy, but it isn't represented in the rules as such: Damage isn't added from melee and shotgun. Only the fact that the bullets aren't counted as penetrating weapons gives some credence to the tool's intended function. Not to mention: While you make a melee attack, you can't fire since you need a complex action and a simple action. If you could at least SA Burst with the thing for a double tap with additional damage, then the recoil compensation would make sense...
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Sure Krime gear is larger then life certainly. Starting with the Krime Canon, these are weapons that pack big damage numbers with the intent for them to be used by trolls. It's a expansion of what trolls are, Larger then life, Super Strong, Super tough, but not very accurate. The fact is though you can make those weapons work, if that what you want to do. Sure it takes some modifications and some work arounds. But like the Combat Axe, a weapon with huge damage value, but terrible accuracy, just keep in mind accuracy is just another word for limit, and everyone know limits can be broken. It only takes one hit your damage is big enough.
Street lethal saw the release lots of new weapons, i think maybe 4-5 will see regular table use. But that's ok, SR has always been about that sort of thing. Sure Guardian is the most popular Pistol, but even so not everyone packs one. Sure the Macuahuitl is now just another name for a sword. But the SR System has never super simulationist, and that's just fine. Many of these weapons can fit very interesting character concepts. Sure only a couple are systematically strong, but that's fine.
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How is the Big Whammy supposed to work ? I know we have the writer floating around somewhere.
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How is the Big Whammy supposed to work ? I know we have the writer floating around somewhere.
You load up the four barrels with whatever shotgun load you prefer. As this is a Krime Weapon and Pink Mohawk as frag, this is likely Explosive Rounds of some type.
You then hit the target with the warhammer, which sets off one of the barrels. You do the melee damage and shotgun damage at the same time. You repeat as needed with the other three rounds in the other barrels.
Officially, it is designed for door breaching. Officially. Wink wink, nod nod.
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Sounds awesome but that would conflict with the official ruling than you can only Exposed a target to one single course of damage per phrase, so it would either be melee or shotgun, not both on flesh targets at least.
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Sounds awesome but that would conflict with the official ruling than you can only Exposed a target to one single course of damage per phrase, so it would either be melee or shotgun, not both on flesh targets at least.
Which is why it is officially for breaching doors. ;D
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'Bout a week ago, this was my first verdict for SL:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Shadowrun/comments/8rwrjh/street_lethal_is_live/e0xscvz/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/Shadowrun/comments/8rwrjh/street_lethal_is_live/e0xscvz/)
I since have started to grow fond of the new fluff, esp. Corpsec. As a GM, you can definetly take someting from Street Lethal.
But the original sentiment stands: It just piles up more and more stuff that fewer and fewer players will ever use. It seems to me that at no point in the design process, anyone made an assesment on what the game as a whole would actually benefit from. 50 pages of new guns with stats marginally differing from the existing ones (besides Core, we already have Run&Gun, Hard Targets, Gun Haven 3 and some german sourcebooks) surely won´t do the trick.
This game needs an update, not stuff. Combat is by far not the worst part of SR5*, but it would have made for a good start: Identifiy some of the problems (example: No good use for medium-sized weapons, as large guns are much more powerfull and only pistols can be conceiled reliably), implement a solution (example: Higher penalties for large guns when engaged in Close Combat or in a cramped spot, mandatory ready weapon for sniper rifles after running...), move on to the next issue. And then you pile up the stuff. Frankly, I like stuff. But it has to be piled up on a solid foundation.
Also, where´s the street in Street Lethal? With that title, you´d expect gangs, close combat (including a well deserved MA buff), improvised weapons, Drugs... I do like the actual scope of the book, but the title seems misleading.
*That honor goes to the Matrix content, with Alchemy following right behind.
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I agree that Street Lethal has some nice thematic things, but most of it is dross. It isn't bad, per se, but a lot of the stuff is just not good.
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It's a lot of Niche stuff, but really, what else you going to do for more gear/weapon porn? You either have powercreep via sourcebook escalation (Rifts was the king of that btw....) , or you tinker around with things that only appeal to a few character types.
Most characters will find something in there for them. Black Trenchcoat characters get limited MAD proof and higher concealability type weapons at char gen. High Damage Low Accuracy weapons work out fine for Edgenomancers, Adepts, and folks that like to split their dice pools. Couple of the Positive qualities are gold for most Street Samurai. So on and so forth. Pretty much every character will find something in there that works out for them.
I do wish there were some more Martial Arts and Armor options. I'd really like to see a plethora of Armor and + Armor options opened up for higher STR characters.
Krime Armor! You know you want it.
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Avoiding powercreep was literally the main thrust of my pitch for the gun chapter. I wanted to get away from the "one gun to rule them all" situation that's existed across editions in SR. Totally agree about the need for more armor options.
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Is it wrong that I kind of miss the damage codes from 1st edition where each gun increased damage differently (e.g., you might need 3 hits to up the damage for one gun, but only 1 hit for another)?
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Is it wrong that I kind of miss the damage codes from 1st edition where each gun increased damage differently (e.g., you might need 3 hits to up the damage for one gun, but only 1 hit for another)?
It probably wasn't worth saving, but I did love the quirkiness of that, and was really disappointed when I read 2nd edition and they'd taken it out.
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There is power creep and then there is adding useful stuff.
This would have been a great opportunity to add some more tools of the soldier/mercenary trade:
Starting with parachutes, going over military vehicles (there hasn't been a tank or a tank weapon statted since WAR!), over improvised weapons and guerilla warfare (build&repair rules could use some love with some good examples), combat armor (and no, that power armor is a joke) as well as some toys for electronic warfare that riggers, deckers and technos can actually use and isn't just experimental tech.
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Yeah but WAR! was fairly epic power Creep.
The SL has legal starting LAW, and several grenade launchers. So I do think we got some merc style stuff. Stat up tanks is a little outside the scope and we did get one parachute and wing suite. Do you really wanna see runners driving around Seattle in a tank, or an MRAP?
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Do you really wanna see runners driving around Seattle in a tank, or an MRAP?
Pfft. I scared the hell out of Seattle with just a bus and some propane tanks.
The Streets Find Ways after all. For everything else, there is Krime.
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Yeah but WAR! was fairly epic power Creep.
The SL has legal starting LAW, and several grenade launchers. So I do think we got some merc style stuff. Stat up tanks is a little outside the scope and we did get one parachute and wing suite. Do you really wanna see runners driving around Seattle in a tank, or an MRAP?
It never hurts to know what the opposition has available.... to steal, repurpose, and sell....
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Rules for field expedient mayhem are definitely needed.
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Yeah but WAR! was fairly epic power Creep.
The SL has legal starting LAW, and several grenade launchers. So I do think we got some merc style stuff. Stat up tanks is a little outside the scope and we did get one parachute and wing suite. Do you really wanna see runners driving around Seattle in a tank, or an MRAP?
I'd like some stats on them. One of my previous campaigns was a Merc campaign and I had to make all that stuff myself. It's true tanks are outside the scope of most normal SR campaigns, but there's plenty of ways to play, and some of them call for tanks.
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If only so we know if a Troll Channeling a Force 10 Energy Aura while wielding a Claymore needs one or two hits to destroy it.
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Yeah but WAR! was fairly epic power Creep.
The SL has legal starting LAW, and several grenade launchers. So I do think we got some merc style stuff. Stat up tanks is a little outside the scope and we did get one parachute and wing suite. Do you really wanna see runners driving around Seattle in a tank, or an MRAP?
It's not like we didn't get stats for anti-grav space craft - all in all I think a real tank or other military vehicles probably appear more often in stories than space craft.
And as for the parachute: We got exactly two stats: it's price and the information that it can't be reused.
Where are the paragliders, the underwater propulsion devices or stuff like field kits and tents? Instead of focusing only on shooty-bang-bang weapons, a few more low tech traps and defenses could have been statted - you know, useful stuff instead of the sixth iteration of a hand gun that is worse in nearly every way then just modding one of the guns from core.
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It's not like we didn't get stats for anti-grav space craft - all in all I think a real tank or other military vehicles probably appear more often in stories than space craft.
No Argument there.
And as for the parachute: We got exactly two stats: it's price and the information that it can't be reused.
Where are the paragliders, the underwater propulsion devices or stuff like field kits and tents? Instead of focusing only on shooty-bang-bang weapons, a few more low tech traps and defenses could have been statted - you know, useful stuff instead of the sixth iteration of a hand gun that is worse in nearly every way then just modding one of the guns from core.
The stats were posted, I think Kincaid posted them, I'll look for the thread.
Edit https://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=27555.0
In there!
As to the rest yeah 6th world camping gear would be cool.
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the boots are quite a bit OP imho.
Are they Stun or Physical?
EDIT: I somehow managed to miss 3 pages of the thread. *headdesk*
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After all these books, one would think a standalone parachute would appear. A disposable parachute seems like a specialty item designed specifically to fit in that armor.
I've been fudging it as a Tool Kit (p. 443, SR5) for the Free Fall skill: 500 nuyen, Availability --, reusable. I've only had a character use it once, to BASE jump from the top of Truman Tower (thanks, Opti, for that fun playtest of SRM 08-01).
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I'd like to point out an easily missed item, the Krime Pack has a Wireless Bonus you might actually use!
Or not. ;D
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When I saw the Krime pack’s wireless function I admit I laughed.
I wonder whether it’s the author poking fun at the usual wireless functionality
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Gotta love Krime.
Putting the Neon into Pink Mohawk!
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When I saw the Krime pack’s wireless function I admit I laughed.
I wonder whether it’s the author poking fun at the usual wireless functionality
A small part of that, but also pushing that Krime is using Radio Shack for its electronics, which is seen in the Krime Triple Series of Gattling Guns.
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As fun and thematic as the idea is, this jammer has a few mechanical and semantic problems:
"Operates as an Area Jammer (Device Rating 2; p. 441, SR5), but instead of inhibiting wireless functionality, reduce a DR to zero, indicating that the system’s audio (if any) has been overridden."
Note that the way it's written it sounds as if the Jammer Rating is independent of the effect - which is defined as setting a DR to zero.
This is vastly more powerful than a regular jammer. Device Rating 0 means that Dataprocessing and Firewall are reduced to 0 as well. Condition monitors are also dependent on DR. Likewise that will make PAN's break down since a DR 0 device can slave 0 devices.
Then there is this little rule: "If a device is completely unattended, the Device Rating stands in for any Mental attributes an icon needs but doesn’t have. For example, a device that an owner sets and forgets, like a door lock, uses its Device Rating in place of Intuition as part of the defense pool against a Control Device action."
And since you can't exempt yourself from this barrage, suddenly all your own gear is completely vulnerable against attacks that originate from outside your bubble...
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The wireless pack things is one of those things that's as dangerous to use as it is helpful. On the one hand distracting lookers on is good, but on the other hand, any chance of being subtle is way way out the window. It's going to increase the operational foot print. I'm sure there are situations where it's a good option, but i bet it will cause more mayhem then it will be a useful tool.
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And since you can't exempt yourself from this barrage, suddenly all your own gear is completely vulnerable against attacks that originate from outside your bubble...
Krime: Great on new and gimicky ideas, bad on follow through.
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When is krime coming out with a deck, comm-link or rcc for fat fingered trolls and orcs?
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I'm still waiting for the Krime line belt fed shotgun.... Might just have to draw up stats for my own >:D
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@Nephilim
You can put a weapon mount on a small vehicle like a Cyclops, giving it a belt fed ammo bin and even taking care of firing the gun for you ;D
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I want a Krime belt-fed assault cannon. Or at least a belt-fed grenade launcher. Because FA grenades are fun!
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Let's see 10 HE grenades in one complex action cause 16+8*9 DV with an AP of 2+9 = 88DV + -11AP and 3 points of background count
That's enough to take out a Behemoth (although you should stay 50 m away to avoid blowing yourself up)
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8m suffices unless you scatter, or did I miss a new optional rule?
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Nope, but the radius is dependent on the damage done (-2/m), so technically 44 m are enough
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@Nephilim
You can put a weapon mount on a small vehicle like a Cyclops, giving it a belt fed ammo bin and even taking care of firing the gun for you ;D
Nah, I want that Drek man(Troll?) portable.
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What kind of weak-ass troll are you if you can't carry a monocycle ;)
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But if I get it not on the motorcycle it's small enough to fit in a pocket... :-[
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Get larger pockets - you'd need them anyway for the freaking large full auto shotgun... 8)
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Nope, but the radius is dependent on the damage done (-2/m), so technically 44 m are enough
But that is only the combination. Each explosion tapers off individually. It's not one big combined one.
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It's one large explosion. Or are you sereously suggesting that an explosion that is DV equivalent to 242 kg of TNT will stop after 8 meters? ::)
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It's one large explosion. Or are you sereously suggesting that an explosion that is DV equivalent to 242 kg of TNT will stop after 8 meters? ::)
Under RAW? Yes. That's how the rules for combined explosions work. Otherwise those 242kg would have no value since you could just use 10 grenades instead.
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"When two explosions occur on the same
Combat Initiative Score and both blasts effect the same
character add half the value of the lower DVs to the
highest DV and apply it all as a single modified Damage
Value for the purposes of Damage Resistance tests"
p.183 core
You first determine if you are affected by the blast which is determined through the function of the DV.
You would be right if the sentence contained the word "only" before "for the purposes of Damage Resistance tests"
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Jack_Spade, the part you're missing is that combining the damage numbers happens AFTER you determine scatter and blast radius. What you're looking at is the damage counter for the overlap zone, same as when you're doing grenades in enclosed spaces and the blast waves bounce off walls until they run out or the walls collapse.
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So? If there is scatter there is of course lesser contribution to the blast radius. I'm talking about a bunch of grenades exploding in the same place in the same action.
Grenades don't have to be thrown or shot, they can be rigged as traps as well, eliminating the uncertainty of scatter completely.
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So? If there is scatter there is of course lesser contribution to the blast radius. I'm talking about a bunch of grenades exploding in the same place in the same action.
Grenades don't have to be thrown or shot, they can be rigged as traps as well, eliminating the uncertainty of scatter completely.
Yes, but for HE grenades, you'd still only have a radius of 8m (though you'd be doing much more damage within that radius). The radius is set BEFORE you start adding the blasts together and calculating damage, because the extra damage is from the OVERLAPPING radii.
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"The first step determines where the projectile ends up in relation to the target (see Determine Scatter, p. 182). The second step resolves the effect of the projectile’s ex-
plosion (see Blast Effects, p. 182)."
If you are refering to that part on p.181 core, please note that the second step clearly says it resolves the explosion effect as a whole - not range first.
Blast effects I already quoted, but basically it says: The higher the damage the further the reach. There is no language there that says you have to examine each explosion separately - instead it has the specific passage about simultaneous explosions to determine damage and transitively through the rules under Blast Effects also reach.
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Projectile. Not projectiles. Each grenade is its own explosion, so you resolve each independently. However, when their blasts overlap, they combine into 1 DV/AP instead of staying singulars. There is nothing there that says they combine into 1 explosion as far as reach is concerned.
You claim the section you quoted earlier proves you right, but that one literally says you treat it as 1 DV for Damage Resistance. It literally says nothing about range.
If you can quote a rule section that literally says you combine the explosions into a single one as far as damage dropoff is concerned, then your quotes have merit. Right now you're only quoting sections unrelated to that, despite your claims otherwise.
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Quite obviously the rules talk about the most common case of one projectile for one explosion. Multiple explosions are a special case and are taken care of under a special rules section.
The question if a blast effects a character is derived from the DV of the blasts, blasts combine to one blast of higher damage, ergo their effect range increases. There is no need for an additional rule because, range derives from DV.
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No, Jack. Just no. The rules you are citing are literally for the overlapping areas, not the blast as a whole. This is the same rule that applies for the 'explosions in enclosed spaces' bit. The blast bounces through the space until it runs out or the walls fail, and you total up the damage. You are deliberately trying to game the rules.
The radius for each grenade is determined as normal. In the area that they overlap, you determine damage specially, instead of having them roll against multiple damage resistance tests.
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"When two explosions occur on the same
Combat Initiative Score and both blasts effect the same
character add half the value of the lower DVs to the
highest DV and apply it all as a single modified Damage
Value for the purposes of Damage Resistance tests"
You were pointed at this part repeatedly, which makes extremely clear it's only for damage, not for range. Given your insistence otherwise, at this point I no longer assume another explanation than malice, so I see no reason to continue this conversation.
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The full-auto-only belt-fed grenade launcher is in testing as an underbarrel attachment to the Krime Happiness. ;D
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The full-auto-only belt-fed grenade launcher is in testing as an underbarrel attachment to the Krime Happiness. ;D
So far test cases proved dubious after a Halloweener fired a flare gun into one and caused all ammunition to explode. Test subject wielding the launcher currently missing so cannot be questioned regarding feedback. Motion to scrap from records is being debated.
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I see, we aren't going to agree on this.
Onward to more interesting topics:
Anthro Drones and the new YAMATETSU NAVAL TECHNOLOGIES RAMPART PORTABLE BALLISTIC EMPLACEMENT, from now on just called YNTRPBE or super shield.
You need a drone with STR 9 - which likely means getting Kenchiku-Kikai and enhance their arms and legs. But once that is done and you have added some standard armor like a Big Game Hunter, your previously squishy drone is now a veritable tank - that you can use with the Shield Walk Small Unit Tactic. This is an easy one, requiring only 3 hits to work and grants you the armor bonus of the super shield and some extra defense.
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Yeah but WAR! was fairly epic power Creep.
The SL has legal starting LAW, and several grenade launchers. So I do think we got some merc style stuff. Stat up tanks is a little outside the scope and we did get one parachute and wing suite. Do you really wanna see runners driving around Seattle in a tank, or an MRAP?
I'd like some stats on them. One of my previous campaigns was a Merc campaign and I had to make all that stuff myself. It's true tanks are outside the scope of most normal SR campaigns, but there's plenty of ways to play, and some of them call for tanks.
...my 3rd ed Euro campaign had the runners end up in the Balkans in a war zone while on a search, recovery, and extraction job that had a big payday ir the succeeded. The first time they saw a Serbian Nihzinyi-Tagel T-030 a bit away after crossing into Croatia from Slovenia, they just stopped for a few moments to ponder what the drek they walked into. Fortunately it and several support vehicles were headed east towards Osjiek to deal with a matter there.
From then on the bravado faded a bit and they became very careful and cautious (and paranoid) all the way to Zagreb.
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I want a Krime belt-fed assault cannon. Or at least a belt-fed grenade launcher. Because FA grenades are fun!
...mmm, suppression fire with HE grenades. Better than a flamethrower.
Ooooh, Leela want.
Duck and cover boys!
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I want a Krime belt-fed assault cannon. Or at least a belt-fed grenade launcher. Because FA grenades are fun!
...mmm, suppression fire with HE grenades. Better than a flamethrower.
Ooooh, Leela want.
Duck and cover boys!
I'm a good influence. *nods*
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...can you imagine suppression fire with airburst or contact trigger grenades? It would be like carpet bombing an alleyway or street
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...can you imagine suppression fire with airburst or contact trigger grenades? It would be like carpet bombing an alleyway or street
Followed within 5 minutes by HTR murdering you, unless you're in the Barrens, because holy heck will terrorism trigger a fast response!
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...can you imagine suppression fire with airburst or contact trigger grenades? It would be like carpet bombing an alleyway or street
Followed within 5 minutes by HTR murdering you, unless you're in the Barrens, because holy heck will terrorism trigger a fast response!
It is definitely a tactic for times when you have nothing left to lose, or are in the middle of a place where no one cares what happens, like the Barrens, or a hive.
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...can you imagine suppression fire with airburst or contact trigger grenades? It would be like carpet bombing an alleyway or street
Followed within 5 minutes by HTR murdering you, unless you're in the Barrens, because holy heck will terrorism trigger a fast response!
It is definitely a tactic for times when you have nothing left to lose, or are in the middle of a place where no one cares what happens, like the Barrens, or a hive.
Or a tactic to use if you're modelling a character off Kane. ;D
"Krime puts the neon in pink mohawks" as someone here put it.
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What about the M22A1 or the Bug Stomper armor? No love?
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What about the M22A1 or the Bug Stomper armor? No love?
Those are (at least nominally) intended as NPC only gear, which probably won't see much use by players (since they're also super obvious milspec gear.) Hence the lack of love
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The Bug Stomper is great - if you can get it - which you can't, therefore it isn't.
The Stoner ist just a little bit more attainable, but all in all overkill and practically unusable without at least 12 points of RC compensation.
You'd have to mount it on a Body 16 vehicle to fire a long salvo without recoil penalty
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The Stoner ist just a little bit more attainable, but all in all overkill and practically unusable without at least 12 points of RC compensation.
You'd have to mount it on a Body 16 vehicle to fire a long salvo without recoil penalty
What about a Troll with a 16 Str using Gas Vent 3 and either a Gyro mount or a Tripod? If we're talking about a 29k nuyen weapon with an Availability of 24, I assume the character using it must be equally ridiculous... :)
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In that case, you'd have a troll that can do almost as much damage with just his fists.
But just for the sake of the argument:
Gas Vent III (3) + Electric Firing (1) + Gyromount (6) + basic compensation (1) + Shock Pad (1) - basic recoil (6) = 6
So yes, you could use it for short FA bursts, provided you aim after each burst. But that doesn't make it any more practical...