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Rigger 5 Errata

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UnLimiTeD

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« Reply #120 on: <12-25-15/1545:10> »
Which raises a question:
If a car has the "Assembly" mod, and selfdestrut on theft, can I just pick up the pieces and rebuild it?
And can I set a timedelay for the anti-theft systems? 8)
Still waiting on a Vector-Thrust Liminal Body.

Herr Brackhaus

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« Reply #121 on: <12-25-15/1546:58> »
The "Blow up Good" section of Run & Gun has a section on preparing drones to be mobile bombs.
Good catch! I'd completely overlooked that as I figured I'd never need advanced demolition rules to take down buildings, not realizing there was other stuff in there. Shame on me for skimming the rules...

Which begs the question, just how much C12 can I pack into/on/around a P5 :D

ETA:
Whelp, looks like Run & Gun has me covered, as a small drone can carry Body/2 kilos of explosives. 1Kg of Rating 25 Plastic explosives should be enough to mess up an axle or driveshaft, especially if shaped within the P5 to blow upwards instead of in all directions...
« Last Edit: <12-25-15/1549:55> by Herr Brackhaus »

ScytheKnight

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« Reply #122 on: <12-25-15/1602:02> »
Which raises a question:
If a car has the "Assembly" mod, and selfdestrut on theft, can I just pick up the pieces and rebuild it?
And can I set a timedelay for the anti-theft systems? 8)

Probably not.. now the question would be if there's any way to do a Powered Disassembly...  8)
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UnLimiTeD

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« Reply #123 on: <12-25-15/1603:21> »
Oh, now that you mention weight: How much does does a drone actually weight?
I can cram 4-5 drones into a vehicle in drone racks, but what if I just pile them into a construction truck?

... Powered Disassembly is the nicest Euphemism I heard this month. I applaud you.
Still waiting on a Vector-Thrust Liminal Body.

ScytheKnight

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« Reply #124 on: <12-25-15/1621:48> »
Not sure if this got mentioned earlier... but there's actually no costs for Drone Weapon Mounts listed.
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Raven2049

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« Reply #125 on: <12-25-15/1930:21> »
maybe a suggestion but when your talking about weapon mounts on p124 include the calculations on how to figure out heavy vs standard, or put in a reference to the rule in the CRB. -realized that the rule has changed so NVM  on this.

edit
also question can the smartsoft autosoft be used on the RCC as a "one for all" program or does it have to be bought per drone (or per weapon)

edit 2
the "Group" autosoft, is that for drones run via commlink? because its already been stated in core that its a simple action to issue drones the same command if they are on the same RCC.
« Last Edit: <12-25-15/2008:39> by Raven2049 »

Raven2049

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« Reply #126 on: <12-25-15/2002:39> »
not going to edit this time ^_^

Ares Phobos has availability of 250,000 nuyen p144

probably already mentioned but a quick scan did not pick it up.

deville

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« Reply #127 on: <12-26-15/0014:56> »
I noticed the Mitsuhama Akiyama (the assassination doll) from Hard Targets didn't make it into the Master list of vehicles/drones in the end of the book.
...Matter of fact, I think all the drones from HT were missed (Ammo Drone, Reloading Drone, Sparring Drone, pages 189-190).

Hard Targets isn't a book I worked on, so I didn't know about 'em until it was published. I couldnlt add things in that I didn't know about! They seem pretty solid, but the reloading drone steps on my intending to not have an Armorer Skillsoft. Not *entirely* since it doesn't actually build things, but.

It seems like this comment about  not knowing what was being worked on in other books is a somewhat common thread for you guys. Now that we have the biggest part of the core books done, what are the chances that they, and the other material, can maybe be gone through and matched up some way or another. It would be nice to have rules and stats smoothed out as it were so that there could be more consistency and maybe get all kinds of like things listed together so we wouldn't have to hunt through several books to see all spells, guns etc. Okay, I'm a dreamer but I know I'm not the only one . . . and it is Christmas the season of miracles . . .

Malevolence

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« Reply #128 on: <12-26-15/0203:58> »
Horizon Mini-Zep has a standard operational time of 8 hours - a whopping 2  hours more than the standard operation time of a normal drone. I'm thinking that this should be at least 12 hours since I'd think that LTAV would count at least as Improved Economy.


Which, oddly enough, is not an available option for a drone unless you scrap the special drone mod rules and use the generic vehicle rules. In fact, the generic rules seem much more robust than the drone specific rules, providing a number of options that would be useful for drones - ECM, Signature Masking, Suncell, Gridlink Override (or Skylink Override, as the case may be), Nanomaintenance System, Smuggling Compartment, Touch Sensors, Extreme Environment Modification, Chameleon Coating, Smoke Projector, Road Strip Ejector, Missile Defense System, Spoof Chip, and Retrans unit.


In short, the optional drone modification rules seem like an option without perceptible benefit - they are less flexible and more cumbersome. The only things they really add are:
1. the ability to reduce stats for more mod points, which for some reason the generic rules don't provide information on even though it is expressly mentioned as a thing elsewhere (removing seats to add more storage or room for mods)
2. That drones are more space limited than vehicles, body for body, though that is debatable since they don't have to provide passenger space or amenities and typically have a lower Body as well


The second item is a non-issue in my mind, but can be remedied by simply making an exception to the generic rules that states "unlike vehicles, drones only have 1 point in each category, but they also have a number of additional points equal to their body (or indicated in parenthesis next to their body stat in the drone's stat block) that can be applied to any category", where the one point in each category represents the freebie point mentioned in the drone section.


The first is easily solved by providing some rules for doing so (perhaps with appropriate drone exception if needed). Again, I think that the exception for drones is unneeded, but maybe there is a game balance issue I am missing. The rules for removing features to gain mod points would roughly equate to the drone rules except allowing each stat to be dropped by one to gain a mod point (as opposed to only gaining the benefit from one stat as mentioned in the drone section) and the same rule for reducing body by up to half. In addition, additional features could be removed to gain mod points equal to adding them in. Seating would probably be an exception (and there may be others that might benefit from an exception where they are percentage based), but it would probably be akin to one mod point per passenger.


To be sure, both changes are rough and so might need some slight refinement to avoid abuse, but would have provided more consistency and saved about five pages leaving in the additional weapon mount sizes and rules for autosofts). Which could have been used for additional artwork, or kick ass RCC stuff, or clarification on what attributes to use for the various skills when controlling a vehicle via various methods, or explaining what the Remote Operation specialization for the piloting skills applies to, or what EW specializations apply to the various new actions provided on page 30 (and the ones included in the core book), etc.


Speaking of which, here are some of my guesses (note that some items fall into multiple areas):
Communications: Confuse Pilot, Suppress Noise, Hide, Jump Into Rigged Device, Snoop
Encryption: Check Overwatch Score, Hide, Jump Into Rigged Device, Snoop
Jamming: Suppress Noise, Hide, Jam Signals
Sensor Operations: Break Target Lock, Detect Target Lock, Target Device, Perception via Sensor Array

ETA: Add perception via Sensor to Sensor Operations spec.
Also, upon further review, it would take a lot more points to squeeze drones into the generic mod rules effectively (since it is 5 points instead of 1 for a speed upgrade, and 4 points for handling and acceleration, etc). I still think it's doable, but my rough draft above would not be sufficient. Since most drones are body 4 or less, basic modification would be difficult or impossible under the generic system even with body points per category, so I concede defeat for now while I go back to the drawing table, but I shall return!
« Last Edit: <12-26-15/0411:15> by Malevolence »
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Wakshaani

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« Reply #129 on: <12-26-15/0205:20> »
Generally, books are overlapping on design, but those not in the design process aren't in that particular loop. Once y'all see a book, then those of us who didn't work on it see it, BUT, if we're working on something ourselves, we usually don't peek until there's some downtime. I'm working on two Future Products right now, and am putting seom proposals together for the PDF line, so, I'm not up on teh other recent releases yet. Free time will, hopefully, show up in the New Year.

UnLimiTeD

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« Reply #130 on: <12-26-15/0609:04> »
A wild free time appears!  :o
@Malevolence: It was my understanding that you could still use the vehicle mods on drones, if you have the spare capacity.
Sadly, most drones don't have the necessary capacity to attach rocket boosters.
Still waiting on a Vector-Thrust Liminal Body.

Tinkerbell

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« Reply #131 on: <12-26-15/1044:04> »
First question:
On page 31 it states, that a swarm will get the device rating of the RCC, if it's higher than the pilot.
I didnt found a restriction on swarm size. So according to RAW it would be possible to have swams of size 1.
So there is no need of improved pilot software - because your RCC gets the masterbrain, increasing every pilot to it's device rating.

Second question:
Still on page 31, next line, it states that the Swarm uses each autosoft on any drone or on the RCC.
Does this disable the restriction of running autosoft only on the RCC OR on the drone?
Does this mean, that you can have a swarm of 2 drones, running 4 (2 each) autosofts?
« Last Edit: <12-26-15/1051:49> by Tinkerbell »

Malevolence

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« Reply #132 on: <12-26-15/1522:08> »
ECM (2), Signature Masking (1-6), Suncell (2), Gridlink Override (1)(or Skylink Override, as the case may be), Nanomaintenance System (1-4), Smuggling Compartment (3), Touch Sensors (3), Extreme Environment Modification (2), Chameleon Coating (2), Smoke Projector (2), Road Strip Ejector (2), Rocket Booster (10), Missile Defense System (3), Spoof Chip (0), and Retrans unit (2)


@UnLimiTed - That certainly helps. All of the options I listed are 4 mod points or less (or have a variance from 1-6 so you can get them but just maybe not at the highest rating). But yeah, the Rocket Boosters are out for anything but a Body 6+ drone with a massive amount of Body reduction. Body 6 dropped to 3 gets you to 9 mod points, then drop another stat to get the 10 needed. Assuming it had all 6 mod points available to begin with - so far I haven't found any, but it's hard to be sure because a couple of the candidates don't specify available mod points: NeoNet Juggernaut, Ares Matilda. At a guess, though, I'd say it's not possible at all.


@Tinkerbell
1. That is true unless you need the drone to operate autonomously (wireless off), say for reconnaissance where there is strong matrix security.
2. Yes - the RCC is effectively a member of the swarm and shares its resources just like any other member. Swarms are powerful, perhaps too much so. It'll probably be errata'd, but I hope it is mild, like simply limiting the max bonus to something like +5 rather than gutting all of the other useful mechanics that make it a (needed) godsend for riggers.


Keep in mind, it does not improve the defense dice pools for the drones (though it does increase stealth and other detection avoidance skills, which can serve a similar purpose by avoiding people having a target to shoot at to begin with), so if the drone providing your rating 6 targeting autosoft gets blown out of the sky, you lose access to it, potentially requiring use of a lower rated autosoft (in addition to the -1 dice pool from the reduced swarm size). In other words, while you can use the drones to increase your limit to running autosofts, they are more at risk than the RCC. And depending on how you play autosofts, it might be tied to that drone meaning that when the drone gets destroyed, so does the autosoft (ouch!).


While the description says "a single drone with multiple, separate bodies", it doesn't say or even imply that they have to be clustered together for easy area attacks. The ranged drones can hang back while the melee (or distracting unarmed) models harry the target, reducing the chance that the swarm is taken out by a single grenade. Indeed, multiple ranged drones would likely attack from multiple angles to provide the swarm attack bonus by making the attacks harder to defend against.
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ScytheKnight

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« Reply #133 on: <12-26-15/1543:53> »
Gonna have to be a nag about this but any ETA on when we can expect to see drone weapon mount prices? It's a pretty damn critical oversight...
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Raven2049

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« Reply #134 on: <12-26-15/1623:17> »
LARGE DRONE              HANDL       SPEED   ACCEL   BODY   ARMOR   PILOT   SEN         AVAIL   COST
MCT-Nissan Roto-Drone                4            2R                1             4(4)        6               3              3             6          8000$

So with the Bumblebee fiasco i wonder if we missed this one in the listing. The CRB states to treat the body of a roto drone as 3 higher when modding/putting weapon mounts on. Now i know that the new modpoint system required the devs to look at the existing drones again and adjust things up but i was up until recently able to put a heavy weapon mount on my roto's, now with the new system i have to completely rebuild my rigger up. I know you can increase across the board by +1 for next to no cost, but if i want to put my missle launcher on my roto's i need to somehow get 2 MP's for my roto (6 MP cost in Rigger 5). why cant we make Body be 4(6) and be exactly where we were before?

Next comment, The cost increased by 3000$, the speed dropped by 2, accel droped by 1, body (see above) armor up by 2 (yay!) now i know the argument for the bumblebee applies to this above situation, but i realy REALLY dont see the argument for giving me less stats and jumping the cost by 3000$.