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Keeping track of ammo

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beowulf_of_wa

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« Reply #15 on: <01-27-12/2343:31> »
think i'll be stealing the "don't bother to track til the glitch" method
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Crash_00

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« Reply #16 on: <01-30-12/1022:40> »
Really depends on what style of game you and your players want to be playing.

If you lean toward the pink mohawk style of play and that's what everyone wants, then go for the less tedious don't really worry about it method. It takes a way a few key aspects of the game, but makes things feel more last action heroish which is right in tune with the style.

If you lean toward the black trenchcoat spectrum, I suggest keeping track of it and encouraging your players to keep track of it as well.

I personally dislike the glitch method, because 90% of the time I'm using a smartlink and I should see the ammunition ticking down. Then again, I prefer a more trenchcoaty game most of the time.

Here's a few links to show how the Deadlands sheets were done:
Hell on Earth
Weird West

I can't find the older copy of the Hell on Earth one, but it used small bullet outlines that perfectly fit the smaller sized paper clips instead of dots. That one never made it to print though so its ridiculously hard to find.

Other things to keep in mind if you design your own sheets and intend to use paper clips with them:
A.) You can use both how deep the clip is into the sheet and the length of the sheet for 2D tracking instead of just straight lines.
B.) You can use different colored paper clips to mean different things.
C.) There are many sizes of paper clips so design for the one you want to use.

If you notice on the  DL sheets the wound key lists colors. That was for using different colored clips to track damage to locations so you didn't have to constantly write and erase your damage and wear out your sheet. I can see a similar system being used to track damage along the bottom or side of an SR sheet with colors representing the track (example: Red = Physical, Green = Stun, Blue = Matrix, etc.).

Since Ammo counts vary so significantly in SR, you might be better off just doing a few ten or fifteen round outlines and having different colors act as a multiplier as well (example: grey = x1, yellow = x2, green = x3, blue = x4. On a fifteen round track you could track anything from a fifteen round Predator IV to the sixty round Supermach 100).

Last note, makes sure to use colors that are available if you use this route. It would suck beyond belief to use purple and realize that you can't find purple paper clips to save your life after printing twenty character sheets.

On to the other bit, keeping track of player's ammo as the GM can be frustratingly difficult at times. Not because of the information, you know what the players are doing, but because of the space needed on paper to write and rewrite constantly. When I bother with it (depends on the game and style I'm running) I use something very similar to the above method with colored paper clips.

First, I get some thick posterboard or cardboard. Then I cut it into a polygon with a number of sides equal to the number of players plus three or four (this will let you keep track of extra NPCs, drones, etc easily too). Tick off marks for a ten round or fifteen round track, whichever works best for you, and devise a multiplier table like the one in the example above. Now tracking ammo is a piece of cake. Just add character names (or numbers that you assign to characters each session) and you're set.

If you want to take it even further, you can add in slots for common ammo types too. In SR 3 I had Ex-EX, Gel, Norm and APDS on all the sides. I usually do this as a depth slot to make the entire finished tracker a bit smaller, but again use what works best for you. This lets you easily glance and notice what kind of ammo the character has loaded if they aren't paying too close attention (nothing like watching a guy put fifteen rounds into a lock in partial light only to realize he isn't missing but is using gel rounds  ;D).



CanRay

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« Reply #17 on: <01-30-12/1046:58> »
I miss Deadlands.   :'(
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Mystic

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« Reply #18 on: <01-30-12/1516:35> »
As a general rule, I started keeping track of what gear the players had and their ammo expendatures after a particularly bad and unnecessary scene back in '97. Long story short, there was particularly long firefight that lasted almost two hours real-time play. Now, the characters were ambushed and as such no one had anything on them larger than a heavy pistol, except for the orc merc who also had a chopped Remington 990. Anway, there was a street sam who abused his Savalette Guardian by 1) Using it on burst fire and shooting it three times more than the mag/clip would have allowed 2) Not playing by the burst fire rules for that weapon requires a complex action (but that was my fault, and I fudged to get the encounter over) 3) Argued with me that he kept firing because he had all 2000 rounds for that weapon on his person, when two other characters ran dry of ammo. Now like I said, I fudged things a bit for the runners during this encounter because hardly anyone one was hitting and I wanted to get it over with after hour one. But this player kept dragging things along.

Now, the real problem didnt happen until after the session when I told the group that I did fudge things for them but that in the future, I would like them to keep track of their ammo, rules for their weapons, reloading, and act accordingly so we dont have something like this in the future. Street Sam Guy got quite pissed off at me and accused me of trying to stack things in my favor, even though he ended up with the highest body count of the game and had only a light wound while everyone else was near death.  It was a case of powergamer-syndrome so I dediced to start keeping track of all gear the players have during a particular scene and kept track of all ammo expendatures on a litle cheat-sheet. And I let all players know that ammo consumption is a part of the game and it will be taken into account.

If someone makes an honest mistake in the heat of the moment, that's one thing. To ignore rules and try and purpousely try and get one over on the GM is another, IMHO.
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Zilfer

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« Reply #19 on: <02-01-12/1449:13> »
Needless to say it sounds like had got the better end of that deal, not sure why he was complaining. Anyways yeah got to make sure they keep track of their ammo.
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Mystic

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« Reply #20 on: <02-01-12/1512:02> »
Needless to say it sounds like had got the better end of that deal, not sure why he was complaining. Anyways yeah got to make sure they keep track of their ammo.

I'm not sure if he was mad that I called him on his...errors...or that he was just a piece of the male anatomy in general. But I think that he was just one of those people who lived his life through his chracters so he saw it as a direct attack on himself. Ah well, I was still new to the GM thing at the time, lessons learned.
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Zilfer

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« Reply #21 on: <02-01-12/1718:47> »
Needless to say it sounds like had got the better end of that deal, not sure why he was complaining. Anyways yeah got to make sure they keep track of their ammo.

I'm not sure if he was mad that I called him on his...errors...or that he was just a piece of the male anatomy in general. But I think that he was just one of those people who lived his life through his chracters so he saw it as a direct attack on himself. Ah well, I was still new to the GM thing at the time, lessons learned.

The game is always evolving and trust me, i have quite a few similiar people like that out of my group. (we have 10+ players that are in and out and about 6 regulars. xD DnD/Shadowrun heaven. Mostly focusing on DnD right now unforunately. D:)

I pretty much go if they really didn't like it they wouldn't come back every weekend. DM's law you don't like it get another person to DM or DM yourself. :D It's pretty much what I did or have taken over. Would enjoy a break but there's just too many loose ends for me to stop. (the curse of a DM the stories never over because you always think of something else.)
Having access to Ares Technology isn't so bad, being in a room that's connected to the 'trix with holographic display throughout the whole room isn't bad either. Food, drinks whenever you want it. Over all not bad, but being unable to leave and with a Female Dragon? No Thanks! ~The Captive Man

Wayfinder

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« Reply #22 on: <02-03-12/0021:34> »
Ammo tracking was always a huge pain in the hoop.

Then I got "Chummer" for FREE!!!!


Medicineman

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« Reply #23 on: <02-03-12/0237:01> »
I have a simple clip system I use:

I know what weapons my players are carrying into a run (cause I ask for a load out from each player before they "go out") and I write down the ammo cap per mag per player. Then I ask how many mags they are packing PER weapon/ammo load (ie: 1 mag gel, 2 mags APDS, 2 mags reg. for Faden's Manhunter)

Then, on their initiative pass, if they shoot, I add a tick next to their name, when they are out off ammo (and they don't notice it themselves!) after they roll their attack, I announce that their weapon goes "click"... And watch their eyes bulge!


....How bad that Smartlink is such a Spoilsport ;)
most of my Chars use Smartlinked Weapons that tell them in Advance when to change Mags

with a forewarned Dance
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Mirikon

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« Reply #24 on: <02-03-12/0721:56> »
Indeed. I always use smartguns. There's really no reason not to.
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Zilfer

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« Reply #25 on: <02-03-12/1202:50> »
Indeed. I always use smartguns. There's really no reason not to.

I just love when an enemy tries to use your own gun against you.... :D
Having access to Ares Technology isn't so bad, being in a room that's connected to the 'trix with holographic display throughout the whole room isn't bad either. Food, drinks whenever you want it. Over all not bad, but being unable to leave and with a Female Dragon? No Thanks! ~The Captive Man

Mystic

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« Reply #26 on: <02-03-12/2153:11> »
Indeed. I always use smartguns. There's really no reason not to.

Except when someone finds a way to jam/hack your weapon. I find that having a low-tech "dumb" weapon as backup is always a good idea.
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JustADude

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« Reply #27 on: <02-04-12/0023:53> »
Indeed. I always use smartguns. There's really no reason not to.

Except when someone finds a way to jam/hack your weapon. I find that having a low-tech "dumb" weapon as backup is always a good idea.

Strip out the wireless and use Skinlink, with your 'backup' weapon in an Arm Slide and hard-linked via fiber-cable to a datajack in your forearm.
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Mystic

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« Reply #28 on: <02-04-12/0157:20> »
Or my personal favorite: a straight out-of-the-box Colt Manhunter or Browinging Ultra-Power with laser sights. Not everyone can have a datajack installed. Awakened people need guns too. Not as good as a smartlink, but then I've always felt that one should rely more on skill than accessories.

 ;)
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Dr What?

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« Reply #29 on: <02-04-12/1450:24> »
When I buy ammo for my character's weapons (in other games, I GM Shadowrun) I record it on the character sheet as number of reloads, that I cross off as character reloads.
And use dice to keep track of ammo in the gun - saves on rubbing / crossing out on the sheet everytime you fire.
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