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Essence and Cyberware Questions

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Lord Scythican

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« on: <09-24-10/1222:44> »
OK first post (of many). I guess I need to get my most pertinent questions out of the way first.

Right now I am creating a Cyberzombie villain for my campaign.  After reading through the Augmentation Rulebook, I found out that is is possible to have a character with -6 Essence. With a number like that, adapsin, biocompatibilty, and Deltaware, I could probably make one hell of a character.

So I decided to test the character creation skills and see just how uber/munchkin I can make this guy. If he is ever introduced in the game, he will be similar to a resident evil tyrant type character and will need a bomb dropped on him to take him out.

Now I am using a complete obvious cyberlimb body, with customized attributes, and enhanced attributes. I am giving this guy a bulk modification as well. Seems like I can fit a lot of cyberware into this guy. Now the thing is, at first glance, I am not sure I can even utilize the full 12 essence (-6 from cybermancy). To me, if I take a full cyberlimb body for the NPC, I will max out at 6.25. With Deltaware, Adapsin, and biocompatibilty, I will be looking at a final score of 1.875 because of the 10%, 10%, and 50% reductions. Huh?  ???

I wasn't sure if I was to add them all together and multiple the essence by .3 or if I was supposed to compile them one at a time, but regardless if I use this percentages, I am going to get nowhere near a maxed essence.

I can use the capacity slots for all the guns etc right? So I will not need their essence costs correct?

To me this doesn't seem right, so I think I am doing something wrong.

If needed, I can post some of my calculations when I get home this evening.

FastJack

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« Reply #1 on: <09-24-10/1512:05> »
The Essence cost is right. Now you will see the true power of the Dark Side. MWUA-HAHAHAHAHAHA

*ahem*

Let's see if we can jam-pack this dude (going to assume he's human):
Cyber ModEssenceCost
Right CyberArm [Bulk +4, Customized (maximized to B6/S6/A6), Cyberarm Gyromount, Retractable Elbow Spur, Enhancements Armor 1/B+1/S+1/A+1 (12 Capacity used, Bod 7, Str 7, Agi 7)].3463,000
Left CyberArm [Modular, Bulk +4, Customized (max'd to B6/S6/A6), Cyberarm Gyromount, Retractable Elbow Spur, Enhancements Armor 1/B+1/S+1/A+1 (12 Capacity used, Bod 7, Str 7, Agi 7), Drone Hand, Grapple Hand].6513,930
CyberLegs [Bulk +4, Customized (max'd to B6/S6/A6), Cyberskates, Hyrdraulic Jacks (R6), Enhancements Armor 1/B+1/S+1/A+1 (14 Capacity used, Bod 7, Str 7, Agi 7)].61,023,000
CyberTorso [Bulk +4, Customized (max'd to B6/S6/A6), Enhancements Armor 3/B+1/S+1/A+1 (9 Capacity used, Bod 7, Str 7, Agi 7)].45441,000
CyberSkull [Enhancement Armor 1 (2 Capacity used)].225153,000
Eyeband [R3, Eye Recording Unit, Flare Compensation, Image Link, Low-Light Vision, Smartlink, Thermographic, Vision Enhancement (R2), Vision Magnification (12 Capacity used)].1590,000
Cyberears[R4, Audio Enhancement (R3), Balance Augmenter, Damper, Ear Recording Unit, Increased Sensitivity, Select Sound Filter (R5), Sound Link, Spatial Recognizer (16 capacity used)].3370,000
Attention Coprocessor (R3).0990,000
Commlink (Fairlight Caliban/Novatech Navi, R4/Sig5/F3/Sys4).06115,000
Datajack.035,000
Encephalon (R2).45750,000
Invoked Memory Stimulator.06500,000
Math SPU.04545,000
Olfactory Booster (R6).0660,000
Orientation System.0612,500
Radar Sensor (R4).09120,000
Auto-Injector (Reusable).035,000
Biomonitor.0910,000
Titanium Bone Lacing.45400,000
Internal Air Tank.0756,500
Magnetic System.07512,000
Wired Reflexes (R3)1.51,000,000
Total:5.796,184,930

Ahh, Cybered out... What else can we add? Why, the Nanotech adds to the Cyber Essence!

Nano ModEssenceCost
Nanohive (R6).6600,000
Anti-Rad (R6)-9,000
Implant Medics (R6, Hard)-9,000
Neural Amplifiers (Limbic R3)-15,000
Neural Amplifiers (Neocortical R3)-15,000
Oxyrush (R5, Hard)-5,000
Trauma Control System (R6)-12,000
Total:.6665,000

Phew... That brings the total Essence cost to 6.39. Just crossed into Cyberzombie-ville! But wait, there's more!

BiowareEssenceCost
Adrenaline Pump (R3)1.125900,000
Dragon's Hide Orthoskin (R3).425970,000
Pathogenic Defense (R6).3600,000
Platelet Factories.1250,000
Cerebral Booster (R3).3300,000
Damage Compensators (R12).61,800,000
Mnemonic Enhancer (R3).15225,000
Sleep Regulator.075100,000
Trauma Damper.1400,000
Total:1.905* 3.1755,545,000

Wow... Since it's the lower of the two, you only use half that Essence cost (0.9525* 1.5875), so your total Essence is now 7.9775. Hold on... you mentioned Adapsin. That means Gene tech.

GenetechEssenceCost
Adapsin.230,000
Daredrenaline.125,000
Magnesense.120,000
PuSHeD.115,000
Qualia.425,000
Reakt.430,000
Synch.330,000
Total:1.6**175,000

Whoa... The essence tacks on to Bioware costs, so again, it's only half (0.8 ), which brings our final total of Essence cost to 8.7775. Of course, the nuyen cost is 12,569,930. Just over two Six-Million Nuyen men!!

(oh, and you can look up all the benefits of this stuff... It scared me. ;))

*Oops... Calculated Bioware essence with Adapsin and Biocompatibility, when it should be just strait Deltaware since those two only affect Cyber or Bio not both. Still, the overall essence is still way above the -12.

**You'll notice the Gene therapy's Essence costs are NOT modified since the Biocompatibility does not apply, the Adapsin effects only essence cost AFTER it's been completed and there's no Delta-grade. I figure they get the Gene therapy out of the way first when it comes to making a Cyberzombie.

Qemuel

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« Reply #2 on: <09-24-10/1553:04> »
um.  I have one piece of advice...


 :o RUN AWAY.
                         FAST!


FJ, you scare me with your shenanigans.  I think I would enjoy playing in one of your games. !   ;D
« Last Edit: <09-24-10/1807:43> by Qemuel »

Lord Scythican

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« Reply #3 on: <09-24-10/1735:03> »
Exactly! I would want this to be the perfect cyberzombie. Of course one's interpretation of perfect may be different than mine, but would want this guy deltaware, biocompatitbility, the works. The creation would be backstory so I wouldn't worry about how many mages died trying to make this guy. BTW I am still working on a post for one arm. I am taking what you have and adding some other stuff. Not too sure what I am doing, so bear with me. 

EDIT: My post after this, was supposed to be my reply to your's fastjack. Once I noticed that you replied again, I went ahead and made the next post with my comments, etc.
« Last Edit: <09-24-10/2022:34> by Lord Scythican »

FastJack

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« Reply #4 on: <09-24-10/1914:42> »
Well, you could jam some more stuff in, but a lot of it just overlaps with other stuff. And remember, that cost is only the equipment side. The Magic side of the equation involves heavy mojo like high Initiate grades and magic lodges. Not to mention a metaplanar quest to the Plane of Death. So, it's a huge risk on the part of the group creating the zombie.

This is built on Delta grade 'ware and finding an individual with Biocompatibility. Removing just that quality from the C-zombie brings the Essence total up to 10.9075. And if they use Beta grade ware and no Biocompatibility, the Essence jumps up to whopping 15.8025. This dude we're talking about is their idea of the perfect subject.

Lord Scythican

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« Reply #5 on: <09-24-10/2014:54> »
@FastJacK: Woah...that is some serious cyber-packing you did there!

So my assumption about the -6 essence is true and it is going to be very hard to max it out? Is there anyway to truly make the -6 Monster of a Man? Is doesn't look possible, but with your keen character building skills, I am sure we can push this guy past 8.6775. Heck with Deltagrade cyberware this would go down even more. With no limitations on availability or credits, I am sure you could cram most of the availiable options into a NPC without even breaching the normal 6 essence.

I like how you did the genetherapy first too. It makes since (fluff wise) and since Biocompatibilty can be purchased once for either cyberware or bioware and it makes sense for character building too.

Well for what it is worth, you have gave me quite a few ideas. I will see if I can expand on it or at least post my Villain with a lot of your suggestions. I know I want him to be a troll and I want to max everything out. I really want that -6 bonus too, because for every negative pip, you get to add +1 to your natural and augmented attribute maximums. A troll with -6 essence and enhanced attribute (Strength) could essentially have...23 max on his strength?  :o

Also give me a few minutes and let me post a cyberarm so you can check my math.

EDIT: Ok I am going to try and post an obvious cyberlimb crammed full of some serious chrome. I might need to tweak it a few times to get the columns to line up, so bear with me. Also I did add a few homebrew modifications, namely the two homebrew cyberguns: Missle Launcher & Heavy Machine Gun. I built their statistics based on cyberguns in the main rulebook.  From what I could tell, the cost was double that of a normal gun and so was the availability. For the essence and compacity, I just made them higher than a grenade launcher. In addition, I have two cyberguns in this arm, which I know is against the rules. My justification was a GM decision based on the fact that I am making this guy really huge, based on his custom arms and enhancements. It is little odd on the ability increases due to the cybermancy though. The book acts like it is a supermetahuman power. I wasn't really sure if this was caused by the magic or something else, but I am imagining this guy as the size of the Tyrant from Resident Evil with arms like what we saw in the recent Deus Ex: Human Revolution Trailer.




Cyberlimb                                  Essence       Capacity               Availability                Cost
Obvious Full Left Arm                 1                  15                       4                             15,000¥
Bulk Modification                       —                 +4                       4                              4,000¥
Normal Attributes
Body    Agility    Strength
3           3          3
Customized Attributes
Body +14                                  —                                         2                               21,000¥
Agility +8                                  —                                         4                               12,000¥
Strength +13                            —                                            2                               19,500¥
Body   Agility   Strength
17          11          16   
Enhanced Attributes
Body +5                                 —               +5                         2                                1,000¥
Agility +2                                   —             +2                         4                                 500¥
Strength +5                             —               +5                          2                             1,250¥
Body   Agility   Strength
22   13   21   
Armor Rating 4                             —              +8                     20                           1200¥
Armor 5 (+4 from cyberlimb mod, +1 from being a troll)                  
Cyberguns & Mods
Missle Launcher                        2 (N/A)              [20]                      40R                             24,000¥
External Clip Port                      0.1 (N/A)          [1]                       —                                100¥
Heavy Machine Gun*               1.4 (N/A)         [14]                      30F                           15,000¥
Laser Sight                           0.1 (N/A)           [1]                             —                                100¥
Cyber-melee Weapons
Spur (Retractable)                  0.3 (N/A)              [3]                        12F                             1,800¥
Subtotal                              (1/4.9)               [39]                                                116,450¥
Deltaware                               Essence Cost                             Cost Multiplier
                                        -50% Essence                  x 10
Biocompatibility                    -10% Essence
Adapsin                                -10% Essence
Total                               0.3/1.47                                                        1,164,500¥
Build Points:                                                                         232.09 BP




Anyways excuse the makeshift chart. I tried to line them up. Its a little tedious. The maxed abilities are based on the assumption that this guy will have a -6 essence. The two homebrew cyberguns were built with standard cyberguns in mind. I picture this guy with huge arms that are loaded with two large cyberguns. I know it is against the rules and these are just some homebrew modifications. They could easily be swapped for a cyber smg or something and not affect the overal essence cost. The capacity slot would be filled with something else. Also I am not sure if I did any of this math right. I assumed that the enhanced abilities and armour ratings added to the compacity. if they do not, let me know. Also the (N/A) next to some of the cyberware is to keep track of what they cost. However since they are taking up a slot, I put (N/A) next to their cost to show they are not calculated into the final cost.
« Last Edit: <09-24-10/2021:22> by Lord Scythican »

FastJack

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« Reply #6 on: <09-24-10/2042:35> »
One last thing to consider... The Cyberzombie Awakens when the process is completed and gains a Magic Attribute of 1. What's to say that he doesn't Awaken as a PhysAdept?

Lord Scythican

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« Reply #7 on: <09-24-10/2047:41> »
One last thing to consider... The Cyberzombie Awakens when the process is completed and gains a Magic Attribute of 1. What's to say that he doesn't Awaken as a PhysAdept?


Can he use the powers of a PhysAdept? I am a unfamiliar with this so I really can't comment. I remember the book saying something about the character not being able to learn spells, etc. Would this affect the PhysAdept?

FastJack

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« Reply #8 on: <09-24-10/2127:15> »
Actually, I don't see anything about them not being able to use magic. It's just tough to use since they are a walking background count. ;)

Lord Scythican

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« Reply #9 on: <09-24-10/2140:09> »
I checked it again, I think I was remembering the part where they loose technomantic abilities. Sorry my bad.

Casazil

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« Reply #10 on: <09-24-10/2349:52> »
The high the negitive essance the more back ground count he makes I think is the way it goes and for every point of background count he'd loose a point of adept powers.
"If at first you don't succeed blame someone else"
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Critias

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« Reply #11 on: <09-24-10/2352:05> »
As fun as this sort of character building exercise can be, don't forget the Golden Rule, "your players should get most of the spotlight time."  Don't make the guy so utterly unkillable that a new group -- which it sounds like yours is -- is going to just get flat out murdered by him, have no chance whatsoever of hurting him, etc, etc.

The bad guy in Resident Evil can get away with toting around a minigun, snarling "STARS" all the time, and being an inexorable killing machine that cinematically chases video game characters and/or Milla Jovovich around, because those are games/movies that are completely on rails, and it's easy to just hit start and try that level again.  

It's important to remember there aren't many cut-scenes in an RPG, and it might be tough to get a whole herd of Shadowrunners to ride the right rails at the right times, and keep an unstoppable death machine from, well, unstoppably deathing them.   ;)

FastJack

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« Reply #12 on: <09-25-10/0020:27> »
I agree, Critias. This was just an exercise in "How far can we go?" As a Prime Runner NPC, using a base Human, he costs over 1200 BP just to afford the resources for the ware.

Medicineman

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« Reply #13 on: <09-25-10/0515:36> »
One last thing to consider... The Cyberzombie Awakens when the process is completed and gains a Magic Attribute of 1. What's to say that he doesn't Awaken as a PhysAdept?

By RAW only If they take the Adept Advantage ;)
having a MAG of 1 doesnt mean being able to use sorcery, summoning or Ki-Powers

He who dances with RAW
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Lord Scythican

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« Reply #14 on: <09-25-10/0731:56> »
As fun as this sort of character building exercise can be, don't forget the Golden Rule, "your players should get most of the spotlight time."  Don't make the guy so utterly unkillable that a new group -- which it sounds like yours is -- is going to just get flat out murdered by him, have no chance whatsoever of hurting him, etc, etc.

The bad guy in Resident Evil can get away with toting around a minigun, snarling "STARS" all the time, and being an inexorable killing machine that cinematically chases video game characters and/or Milla Jovovich around, because those are games/movies that are completely on rails, and it's easy to just hit start and try that level again.  

It's important to remember there aren't many cut-scenes in an RPG, and it might be tough to get a whole herd of Shadowrunners to ride the right rails at the right times, and keep an unstoppable death machine from, well, unstoppably deathing them.   ;)

All good advice! As for this unkillable character, well I would still use him eventually but this is mostly for fun anyways. If I did use him it would be a very controlled situation. He would sort of represent that "Hand of GM". I have introduced this kind of character before in games and they always instill fear into my players.

You have to look at it this way. Most players get a little too big for the britches. They grow a pair that are so large, that they could easily deflect Force Lightning from the Emperor or smother a paragon red dragon with them. Well not literally people but hopefully you get my point, they think they are "invincible".

A munchkinized, unstoppable killing machine NPC (which does have several ways to be stopped, one of which can be accomplished without the use of a large bomb), can serve as a reminder to players that they are not invincible and can be a deterrent to unruly player behavior. However you really need to get a good read on a group first. The group I have been playing with has gotten together every Sunday for the last 15 years. The group knows what the meaning of a NPC like this is. They all know know the routine: "Oh crap the GM is pissed. You really should not have killed that NPC just because you could! Didn't you see the character art he drew for her and that character was supposed to be a longstanding character for many adventures?"

Characters like this can serve as a Personally Delivered Lightning Bolt from Zeus and everyone knows it. You mess around ingame and screw up the storyline just because you can then you can expect a swift asinine treatment in the form of GM disapproval.

It builds up a certain fear factor with your gaming group and keeps the riftraft out of the game. You know the ones I am talking about.

Maybe I am on a powertrip, but everyone in the gaming group does it. Seriously after 15 years, sometimes games can just get downright silly and they need to be forcibly put back into order. Seriously just because a PC has a Lightsaber skill of 13D, Control, Sense, and Alter of 12D+ each, doesn't mean they should decide one day that they are going to kill Luke Skywalker, especially if they do not have a single Darkside Point. I had a player try that one time, and lets just say he encounter Luke Skywalker during a New Jedi Order Counsel meeting...well at least he has a reason to go to the darkside now, with the poor guy missing limbs and stuff.

As for the whole "my character is invincible thing", well I really hate it when players get like this. For one, it makes the game flawed in my opinion. I sort of compare it to Chewbacca in Vector Prime by R. A. Salvatore. It wasn't Salvatore's idea to kill Chewie off, (oh yes that is a spoiler, but if you don't know Chewie died in the novels by now, then you didn't care about the character anyways...just saying) it was a judgment call by those who were in power regarding the direction of the books.

One of the things that made those in power kill off Chewie was because the stories were getting old, it seemed like they were running a "Super Weapon" of the month kind of thing. Also there was no sense of "danger" where the main characters were concerned. No matter what kind of mess they got themselves into you (as the reader) knew they would get out of it somehow. That's the main reason a character was killed ... to shake the fans out of the everybody's safe mode to who are they going to mess with this time. That created a lot of suspense in the books of that series because you knew that everybody was fair game. The threat of a -6 essence Cyberzombie can serve as the exact same thing.


I am going to quote Keanu Reeves now...."Woaaaah!"

I didn't mean to write that much. Sorry.