[El Diablo]

Hi!

Question in the title. Can spirits be friends or at least civil beings?

Context. A friend of mine is playing a Magician that specializes in summoning in 5th edition. It's his first time playing Shadowrun tabletop, he only has played the computer games before. The backstory of the character is that he's more fond of spirits than of people. And this friend of mine loves to roleplay the sidekicks of his characters in Pathfinder RPG games. But everytime he summons or bind something in Shadowrun 5th our actual GM reminds him that spirits loathe being in the material plane. And this is descouraging my friend to roleplay or even join the game sessions.

I understand binding is a thing in the rules and forcing the spirits to spend their life on favors is another thing, be it any edition. But what if the summoner treats the spirits with respect and affection? Can spirits be friends? Do all of them really hate being in servitude of a mortal?

Any ruling on old editions, fiction or a podcast works for me. Thanks.

[CanRay]

I find that, if you run spirits as if they were people, it works a whole lot better.

Some are just really, really weird people.  Like ones that obsess over RealKaff over SoyKaff as a thing.

Or are obsessed with the military soldiers of a city (past, present, and, potentially, future) over anything.

Watcher Spirits are the dim bulbs of the Spirit World, which I've likened to "Purse Dogs Of Magic", and my group hasn't argued one bit with.

Mainly, how you treat your spirits is how you end up with them.  Treat them as just stats and a point of light, and they're very literal, just...  Things.  Treat them like people, or at least worthy of interacting with, and you'll get interesting personalities.

This is tied up in the Lore of Shadowrun as well, with Hermetic Mages tending towards the Literal Spirits and Shamans tending towards the People Spirits.  But that doesn't mean that a Mage doesn't respect their Spirits, or that a Shaman doesn't treat them as expendable.  Everything with magic is individualistic.

That's why so many magicians are Shadowrunners.  Telling your Corp-Honchos that, no, Lucy The Air Spirit can't go pick a fight with the Free Smog Spirit because it'll hurt her doesn't fly.  Whereas 'runners will understand that Lucy just can't do it, and find an alternative.  Like Summoning Freddy The Fire Elemental who is ready to burn out all those impurities.  And will support the Magician while they do the summoning required.

[Reaver]

So, there's a lot of lore in the books that covers this.

Burning Bright is the one that most comes to mind as it features a mage, his ally spirit, and about a half dozen spirits he summons. Its been a long while since I read the book, but I do remember some of the interactions between the spirits and the mage.

The Ally Spirit was an "under the breath" comeback sort that always had a sharp retort for every thing...

The watcher spirit was basically a talking dog... loyal, happy to do tasks... and forgetful of said tasks until reminded... (as in, it would complete the task as it had to as a watcher spirit... but would then forget to report back and just wander about observing things until the mage actually recalled the watcher).

The was a fire elemental he used in combat (this book was written in the 2e days). which was mostly a static block of fire personality wise.

Through the editions, Spirits have changed dramatically. Originally from editions 1 to 3 Spirits and Elementals where two separate things, and behaved in different manners.
Mages summoned Elementals (earth, air, fire, water), and they were described at basically being automatons, with little if any personality. Shamans summoned Nature Spirits (land, sea, sky, hearth, man) They were described as having a personality linked to their domain...

Things changed with Universal Magical Theory that was introduced in 4e (and still in play).. That basically threw out everything about magic and spirits and elementals from previous editions and "streamlined it" (I call it "removing flavor in favor of contradictions". To each their own)
Since then, I have sadly not read much fiction involving spirits, aside from what's in the rules books.


Spirits actually like to come to the material plane! This is why they "agree" to the summoning in the first place. (page 300 of the CRB, red box that the bottom: Heading: Spiritual Relationships)

Most spirits seem to like being on Earth, but the exact reasons are unclear and the spirits are not
keen to share any information.

What Spirits don't like is being Bound.... (see Binding, page 300 CRB)

The best way to thing of Spirits is like CanRay said; As people. Anything you would consider abusive as a person, Spirits would too... including committing mass mayhem and murder for a mage, or being ordered to be a "meat shield" for a mage... (Cause I know I get really pissed when people ask me to burn shit down or beat up someone... and I get really pissy if I get bopped in the nose cause of someone else...)

Street Grimoire page 180 as a great fiction about what happens if you mistreat spirits.... and after that work of fiction, you have 20 pages all about Spirits and the official "who, what, where, why, and when" of Spirits.. (and its up to date, thanks to UMT)

The TL/DR?
Yes it is possible for Spirits to be friends with a mage, outside of the Spirit/Summoner relationship, but the reasons for why a spirit may want to call a Mage a "friend" is not clear, and may not even be a "human" response to such a question.
I have allowed in my games for character to pick up FREE spirits as contacts (and improve the relationship to the "friend" stages through roleplay and karma)

BUT, I would be a little hesitant to allow a summoned spirit to be a contact...

But friendly and helpful to a mage? Maybe even offering help without services after a period of exceptional behavior? (and other hallmarks of friendship) Sure, why not?

[Shinobi Killfist]

There are no hard rules on this, at least not in 5e. There are optional guidelines, how the DM wants to run them, the DM wants to run them though.

For me when I was running it I went with the assumptions based on the guidelines they were not a fan of binding but were fine with and maybe even liked being summoned.

1. I assumed to some degree they get something out of it.
2. They get more out of binding but it contains risks.  Like if you bind them and burn through the X services over a week they probably are all in.  But it contains the possibility of being bound for a year. And whether they are there for a week or a year they probably got the same out of it. So binding isn't inherently terrible to them but the risk of it being abused is higher.

Now my personal head canon is that the summoning/drain part is what they get out of it, you are basically feeding them magical energy, and its how they grow. They generally want to get summoned due to the possibilities, they are fine with binding if not abused. Pre 4e? I went with they were totally fine with binding as you bound from the start, they weren't locked into summon and then had that jumped up to binding which gives them less choice. Basically summoning and binding were essentially voluntary, someone would answer the call as out of near limitless spirits one of them at force 5 is willing to do it. Now, it is more conceivable they might be willing to get summoned, and going fingers crossed please don't bump this to bind and then have bind effectively forced on them. That being said, nothing stops you from talking with them once summoned, hey Bob, do you mind if I bind you I'll release you in a week.

[Wakshaani]

We actually have a whole Thing about this in the rules, with new spirit types and a whole thing that lets you call up spirits based on how well you interact with them and how well you treat them!

Forbidden Arcana, I do believe, has this information. Handy stuff that your friend should really appreciate!

[Xenon]

Traditionally magicians used long rituals to bind their elementals and they treated them as tools (magicians could be considered 'cruel' and elementals didn't really have a personality back then) while shamans only temporary summoned their nature totem spirits and treated them as partners (shamans could be considered 'nice' and their spirits often had their own personalities).

In later editions the rules got streamlined and now both magicians and shamans are able to both temporarily summon and also bind elementals/spirits. The old mechanics are still in use, but mostly shifted over to the role playing side of it. You can still have 'cruel' magicians (but now also shamans) that use their spirits as tools, doesn't offer them anything (or only offer things as 'bait'), love to bind them, have no issue with sacrificíng their spirit in combat while they sneak away and where their spirits doesn't really have different personalities. And you can still have 'nice' shamans (but now also magicians) that consider spirits as partners, where summoning and binding is a negotiation of sorts that might include small offerings, will typically not sacrificing a spirit without also sharing at least some of the risk themselves and where their spirits often have different personalities.

SR5 p. 300 Spiritual Relationships
The exact relationship between spirit and magician depends in part upon the character’s tradition. Various shamanic traditions provide offerings (not necessarily reagents) to spirits for their services. Magicians have offered physical gifts (like incense, leaves, beer, or lit candles), tribute (like praise, songs, stories, or just conversation), and promises (protecting a forest or watching over a community). Some magicians give freely and some see offerings as bait. Some magicians don’t bother giving any offerings at all.

SG p. 185 What Spirits Wants
Conjurers who believe spirits are discrete entities with their own goals and desires realize that spirits don’t do anything for free. How many free-of-charge favors would you do for a chummer before you start telling him to slot off? It’s not just a case of “Hey, spirit, I want something from you.” It’s more a case of “Hey, spirit, I’d like you to do something for me, and in return I’ll give you this.”

SR4 p. 188 Roleplaying Spirits and Services
Gamemasters and players are encouraged to treat spirits like actual NPCs, rather than just tools with no personality of their own. The exact relationship between a spirit and magician will depend largely upon the character’s tradition. Hermetic mages typically view their elementals as servants to be commanded and ordered about, whereas shamans typically treat spirits as equals—if not gods or venerated elders—and so implore them for assistance or strike bargains for their aid (returning the favor with such tasks as ecological cleanup, gardening, animal tending, worship, and so on). A spirit’s personality should be appropriate to the summoner’s tradition, and may range from that of semi-intelligent beast or a distinctly nonhuman outlook to a very human personality (perhaps based on someone the summoner knows, or a reflection of the summoner herself).

our actual GM reminds him that spirits loathe being in the material plane.

Actually, no matter if the conjurer (magician or shaman, doesn't matter anymore in later editions) is 'cruel' or 'nice' most spirits don't mind getting summoned (as most of them see it as a way to explore this plane - they often see it as if they get something in return).

SG p. 186 suggests a list things that spirits do not like (being summoned is not one of them):
- Become disrupted / killed in combat (forced to return to metaplanes for a 3-4 weeks).
- Become bounded and stay bounded for extended periods of time (feel trapped by this).
- Resist drain for their conjurer (its like getting electrocuted).
- Forced to sustain spells (it might get permanently weakened or even permanently destroyed).

CRB p. 301 suggest that if a 'cruel' conjurer send one of their spirits on an extra long or boring tasks then they are allowed to struggle against the command, imposing a negative dice pool modifier of 1 dice on all tests until the conjurer spend a complex action in an Opposed Summoning + Magic vs. spirit’s Force + Willpower Test to calm the spirit down (tie is enough).

But what if the summoner treats the spirits with respect and affection? Can spirits be friends? Do all of them really hate being in servitude of a mortal?

Spirits typically don't hate being summoned.
Yes, spirits will typically be 'friendly' against conjurers that are 'nice' (see above) to them.
Most of them still don't like being bound though, but will typically not 'struggle' against a 'nice' conjurer that just binds them for shorter periods now and then.

[El Diablo]

Thanks so much for all the answers. Already showed the thread to the player and the GM and it has been resolved. Cheers.

[Wakshaani]

Oh! And something which also works?

You can take spirits as Contacts. These aren't the kind that you whistle up to go fight for you or whatever, but having a relationship with DeZille, the urban spirit of 13th street, or Grandmother Heart, a fire spirit who lives out in Pullyup, who you visit, trade stories with, and sometimes hit up for information? That's just handy.