Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Rules and such => Topic started by: RickDeckard on <03-22-19/0841:22>
-
Having trouble finding anything on this, but how many mini-grenades can you load in an underbarrel grenade launcher and what is its range?
And where do you add an Airburst Link? To the rifle, the launcher, the smartlink?
-
Both HK and Alpha have same base stats: 4 accuracy, SS, 6(c). Grenade Launchers have a range table on page 185, I think that applies to underbarrel as well.
-
So you think those stats apply to any underbarrel grenade launcher applied to a random weapon? With acc 4 it wold be more accurate to throw a grenade then, since you likely have a higher limit than 4. But range is better of course.
-
So you think those stats apply to any underbarrel grenade launcher applied to a random weapon? With acc 4 it wold be more accurate to throw a grenade then, since you likely have a higher limit than 4. But range is better of course.
You only need 3 to precisely place the grenade, if I'm remembering correctly. Plus, things like personalized grip and smartlink would improve accuracy.
-
You only need 3 to precisely place the grenade, if I'm remembering correctly.
You are remembering correctly; there is no use to having an accuracy higher than 3 on a grenade launcher.
-
Yeah, since grenades' DV doesn't stage, any hits beyond 3 are pointless. As is any Accuracy beyond 3.
Edit: In other words: What Ghost Rigger slipped!
-
You only need 3 to precisely place the grenade, if I'm remembering correctly.
You are remembering correctly; there is no use to having an accuracy higher than 3 on a grenade launcher.
Except for when you're aiming with a motion-sensor grenade at a person, since then they have to try to evade rather than being able to interrupt and sacrifice 5 initiative to run out of the way.
And sure, maybe it's more accurate. But at 50m distance the launcher has no penalty but the thrown grenade likely faces a -3 from distance.
-
You only need 3 to precisely place the grenade, if I'm remembering correctly.
You are remembering correctly; there is no use to having an accuracy higher than 3 on a grenade launcher.
Except for when you're aiming with a motion-sensor grenade at a person, since then they have to try to evade rather than being able to interrupt and sacrifice 5 initiative to run out of the way.
I can't think of any benefit from actually directly hitting a target with a grenade. So long as you're within a meter you do full DV (before chunky salsa rules come into effect) and that's what 3 hits represents. Sure, a GM might impose extra threshold to reflect difficulty in hitting the "stationary pocket mule" right next to a fast zig-zagging target... but a more proper spirit of how penalties are applied would be to penalize your dice pool instead of increasing the threshold.
So sure, if the GM represents penalties by raising thresholds, then sure there's a case to be had to care about your Acc on a grenade launcher.
Also, you can't Run For Your Life from a grenade launcher-delivered grenade. Only from thrown grenades.
-
RAW yes, but I wouldn't let people bypass evasion of grenades that easily. It's nonsense that I can dodge the thrown grenade but not the fired one.
-
It's a matter of opinion I suppose.
You don't get the chance to run out of the way of bullets, so why should you be allowed to run out of the way of a big explosive "bullet"? Of course the grenade fusing rules don't really represent "realistic" laser-rangefound airbursts, so 6 of one, half a dozen of the other...
-
You don't get the chance to run out of the way of bullets, so why should you be allowed to run out of the way of a big explosive "bullet"?
I get the chance to run out of the way of a thrown grenade, so why should I not be allowed to run out of the way of a thrown knife?
-
You don't get the chance to run out of the way of bullets, so why should you be allowed to run out of the way of a big explosive "bullet"?
I get the chance to run out of the way of a thrown grenade, so why should I not be allowed to run out of the way of a thrown knife?
You get a defense roll...and depending on the grenade setting you may not get a chance to run away from it. It could be on a timer or other trigger. In fact you may have a better chance of dodging a bullet than a grenade. Unless you carry a tennis racket. Always carry a tennis racket.
-
You don't get the chance to run out of the way of bullets, so why should you be allowed to run out of the way of a big explosive "bullet"?
I get the chance to run out of the way of a thrown grenade, so why should I not be allowed to run out of the way of a thrown knife?
At this point you're undermining your own argument that RFYL should extend to non-thrown grenades.
-
It's a matter of opinion I suppose.
You don't get the chance to run out of the way of bullets, so why should you be allowed to run out of the way of a big explosive "bullet"? Of course the grenade fusing rules don't really represent "realistic" laser-rangefound airbursts, so 6 of one, half a dozen of the other...
You get the chance to run away from area indirect combat spells and those must fly far far far faster than a grenade given their LoS instant hit ranges.
-
You don't get the chance to run out of the way of bullets, so why should you be allowed to run out of the way of a big explosive "bullet"?
I get the chance to run out of the way of a thrown grenade, so why should I not be allowed to run out of the way of a thrown knife?
You get a defense roll...and depending on the grenade setting you may not get a chance to run away from it. It could be on a timer or other trigger. In fact you may have a better chance of dodging a bullet than a grenade. Unless you carry a tennis racket. Always carry a tennis racket.
...just hope it doesn't have a pressure trigger.
-
I would allow to dodge the grenade, but as long as you're in the explosive range, you're going to take the damage. If the grenade hit you in the chest or dropped right next to you doesn't matter.
-
Interesting, very interesting.
There is a world of difference between a Thrown Knife, Thrown Grenade, Launched Explosive, AE Spell... IMO.... using real world physics v/s how the rules behave.
A Knife, Dart, Baseball, are all thrown directly at you, usually with as much force as possible.
Grenades on the other hand, at least according to my Basic Training Instructors, are lobbed.
We got yelled at for throwing them like baseballs or footballs or any thing from the shoulder or waist (sidearm).
We had to stiff arm toss them UP & over like you were one of those plastic army men from child hood.
It was really annoying actually, not at all natural, BUT, meant to teach us how to get it inside of a fox hole or sand bag emplacement & not bounce around rolling past the enemy or back at us.
The timed delay of them to me & that slow arcing toss is what is represented by the RUN chance you get with AE's.
I don't really see it applying to a Knife OR for that matter launched explosives/spells that are moving fast & explode on impact.
But I guess that was too much for the rules, so I'd rather see it work on all the AE's since as a general rule most of the AE's are overpowered. (Not Direct Spells like Stunball, but the Indirect are for sure)
-
...yeah the "lob" makes perfect sense as why one only deeds on'y 3 hits to "place" a grenade. In RL grenades didn't explode once they landed (during WW II there was an baseball pitcher who was known for hurling live grenades back at the Japanese after they landed in the LST he was on).
The trick is waiting until near the end of the turn to lob one when the oppos may be out of initiative.
-
Interesting, very interesting.
There is a world of difference between a Thrown Knife, Thrown Grenade, Launched Explosive, AE Spell... IMO.... using real world physics v/s how the rules behave.
A Knife, Dart, Baseball, are all thrown directly at you, usually with as much force as possible.
Grenades on the other hand, at least according to my Basic Training Instructors, are lobbed.
We got yelled at for throwing them like baseballs or footballs or any thing from the shoulder or waist (sidearm).
We had to stiff arm toss them UP & over like you were one of those plastic army men from child hood.
It was really annoying actually, not at all natural, BUT, meant to teach us how to get it inside of a fox hole or sand bag emplacement & not bounce around rolling past the enemy or back at us.
The timed delay of them to me & that slow arcing toss is what is represented by the RUN chance you get with AE's.
I don't really see it applying to a Knife OR for that matter launched explosives/spells that are moving fast & explode on impact.
But I guess that was too much for the rules, so I'd rather see it work on all the AE's since as a general rule most of the AE's are overpowered. (Not Direct Spells like Stunball, but the Indirect are for sure)
Yeah it makes sense why it works vs thrown grenades. Grenade launchers would be a pretty direct shot and much faster, indirect spells even more direct and much much faster(mainly die to the ludicrous nature of LoS spells, they could flash from 5 miles out to the target spot in the same time a grenade shoots something 100 meters), so I'm not sure on the logic vs indirect AoE spells in the rules. But, yes given how overpowered most of these things are I'm fine with it working vs all of them.