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(Lore Question) Dragons during the 5th world

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cuidaBeja

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« on: <06-19-21/1503:27> »
The wiki isn't giving me any clues here, but i'm curious what exactly was going on with the dragons and other immortal beings during the 5th world.

I have a few different possibilities and was wondering which of these is most supported by text and players.

1. They didn't exist for a bit. The 5th world came, and dragons/immortals popped out of existence until they stepped back into the 6th world again like no time had passed. I don't think this one makes too much sense but it seems the most straightforward?

2. They existed, but were dormant. Maybe the 5th world forced all immortal beings into dormancy, hiding deep underground or living lives as mundane but immortal human beings until the 6th world returned and they remembered their true selves. I like this one more than the first one, and it has a bit of intrigue to it.

3. They were forced into a different plane. This is practically the same as the first one, but in the meantime, they're having 5000 years of beef with each other somewhere they can't interfere with us.

I'm aware that more than one of these could be simultaneously true, too. Anyone have other interpretations or evidence to support these?
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Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #1 on: <06-19-21/1853:54> »
#2 is true in the case of a few dragons, I beleive.  The big Dunk, at least. Ghostwalker, too, if you consider G to 1) be a different dragon from Dunkelzahn and 2) off in some metaplane or something counts as "underground"

I believe that it's either objectively true for all dragons, or "only" believed in-universe to be true.
« Last Edit: <06-19-21/1856:41> by Stainless Steel Devil Rat »
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Reaver

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« Reply #2 on: <06-20-21/0023:29> »
Need to get to my computer... too long for phone typing...


OK, this is one of the great mysteries of the awakening. And depending on where you look, you will get a different answer.

First, knowledge of the "Immortals" is more an open secret than common knowledge. And those that are known to be immortal, are not talking. Or, if they are talking, they contradict themselves.
Also, different things seem to have happened to different groups.


DRAGONS:
The only dragon that we know cam from a Rift, is Ghostwalker. Several thousand people watched him force his way through an Astral Rift to confirm that... As well as the hordes of Shedim that accompanied him... (Make of that what you will) 
As for the other Dragons, well, Ryumo(SP) was seen emerging from an erupting MT Fuji... so yea maybe rift? Maybe naptime at the bottom of the volcano? Big D was said to have emerged near Lake Louise, and did claim that area as his person lair and property before moving to an island.
However, there is evidence that All, some, or at least the Big D was awake during the 5th age for at least brief periods of time. This is from some interviews given early in the fluff, and novels of the 2e books. Also, there are the gifts in his Will.
Add to that deeds, stocks, bonds, accounts and titles the dragons pulled out of their ass (and used to set up their little empires... Looking at you Lofywr(sp) )... How they got those things is anyone's guess... Did they walk around spending coins to acquire these things? Use intermediaries?  Hell, just possess some sod mind with Dragon magic? No one knows for sure.
Keep in mind too, there is only handful of Great Dragons... but hundreds of Dragons... (down from a few thousand after that little dragon dust up a few years back), and the power gap between a dragon, and a Great Dragon is well, GREAT.


Immortal Elves.

Yea, these jerks have answered this question with 10 different answers over the years... Which one is the truth? No one knows... but the most common theme is that the Immortal Elves where awake, and living as basically immortal humans, during the 5th age.  Some claim that during the 5th age, they lives dozens of "human" lives, but retained their same personality and knowledge during each birth.
Surehand claimed to have spent the entire 5th age as an elf, hiding his "Elfness" from humans using mundane means. One even claimed to have been a part of a cabal of immortal elves that hunted dragons during the 5th age to kill them off, and managed to get a few of them!
So, yea, take your pick which true. Because the Immortals aren't saying.

Vampires.

Its believed HMHVV was dormant during all of the 5th age, and only emerged again with the awakening and the rising mana levels. However, there has been a few vampire that have claimed to have been around in the fourth age, or made in the 5th age. But those ones are currently dead, thanks to one of their kin, so for sure answers are hard to come by.

Fey:
These bastards didn't show up until years after the awakening, and most fo them through Rifts so they were most likely trapped there until mana levels rose to a level that could support an Astral Rift. And considering we can't keep them here when dead, suggests they are not native to the material plane to start with.... But actual facts? None. Sorry.




Which all boils down to:
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« Last Edit: <06-20-21/0248:45> by Reaver »
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Beta

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« Reply #3 on: <06-21-21/1059:30> »
In ShadowRun missions there is one where a not-yet-awakened dragon has been found, still dormant, in its underground cave.  This implies that at least a portion of 'regular' dragons found themselves safe places to doze away the low-mana years. 

I'm pretty sure that in one of the books I read about some of them (maybe greats?) having essentiall mystic holdfasts to wait in, where they managed to keep the mana level a bit higher than in the rest of the world.  However darned if I can remember where I thought I read that.  But to me it makes sense that Greats would manage to do more than just survive, if they could manage periods of activity, even if confined to their lairs, then they could have agents informaing them of the state of the world, and they could give new instructions to agents.

And speaking of agents, I think the other class of immortals was Drakes.  Presumably during the 5th world their dragon heritage was quiescent and they were fairly normal humans (other than generally being prime physical specimens, having centuries/millenia of knowledge, experience, and skills, and being highly skilled at working what little mana was available.
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speechthoughtmatrix

mcv

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« Reply #4 on: <06-21-21/1730:02> »
My impression is that dragons existed, but were dormant, sleeping or hiding. Probably because they lacked their magic powers and were extremely vulnerable as a result. I've read somewhere about dragon hunting groups existing during the 5th World, so that seems to fit.

Immortal Elves existed, as far as I know. Erhan and Harlequin seem to have lived active, if hidden, lives. Sounds to me like they were immortal even without magic. Presumably, they didn't have access to their magic during this time. Although considering the many stories about magic, dragons, vampires, etc during the 5th World, it's entirely possible that occasionally, locally, magic would work a little bit. Just not very reliably.

My impression is that drakes reappeared during the Awakening, which suggests to be they didn't exist in the same way regular elves, dwarves, orcs and trolls didn't. Although it's possible that some pre-existing drakes survived as immortals same as the immortal elves.

Ghostwalker seems to have survived on a different plane, but he seems to have been the exception.

In ShadowRun missions there is one where a not-yet-awakened dragon has been found, still dormant, in its underground cave.
Do you know which one?

Beta

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« Reply #5 on: <06-22-21/0955:42> »

In ShadowRun missions there is one where a not-yet-awakened dragon has been found, still dormant, in its underground cave.
Do you know which one?

The last couple of missions of season 8 (8-05 is the one most relevant to this discussion).  But Missions being Missions, there is not much background/lore in there.
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speechthoughtmatrix

Mr. Black

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« Reply #6 on: <07-04-21/1826:30> »
It is heavily implied in The Aztlan sourcebook that most of the dragons were sleeping, and that factions among the elves hunted some dragons down and killed them. It is further implied that if certain dragons could prove that, and who actually did it, there would be serious repercussions.