[Longshot23]

Personally, i question the influence of Topps on CGL.  Akin to the influence of Hasbro on WotC.  Like, the game line(s) are being made secondary to business/profit.

Any announcements on this?

Topps doesn't have a ton of influence on the game line. They've been very cooperative and gracious about letting us do our thing, so I wouldn't blame them.

Jason H.

Acknowledged.

[Chaemera]

Including them in War! is basically the same,

So, does that mean that Leadership rules wouldn't even be useful in a regular SR game?  Are they totally focused on squad-based combat?  If yes, why is that part of the Influence skill group instead of Intimidation?

Feh... I don't know..

I'm not into high-powered games, so War isn't currently on my agenda, but having working rules for a skill that, as of now, is almost entirely redundant... that's a plus.

To answer your question, yes the rules would be useful in a regular SR game. No they aren't totally focused on squad-based combat, they're focused on a person leading a squad in combat, what is any runner team if not a small squad, perhaps with less discipline and no uniforms.

A new rule printed in a new rule book does not need to be incorporated into the core rulebook via errata in order to apply generally to all games played. The information and rules provided in Vice apply regardless of whether or not you're running a game where everyone is a member of the mob. Corporate Guide tells you the ins and outs of corporations, even if your characters aren't playing corporate runners.

[Darkeus]

I have to say I am glad to see some Leadership rules.  It is a looked over skill and I am glad to see it get some functionality.  It seems to me that War! isn't a bad place to put said rules, even though it is correct that a Shadowrunning team is totally a small squad and maybe it should have been in SR4A.

But that is neither here nor there, they exist now so that is awesome.

Edit: Awww, I must have offended some cats.  My negative rep went from 0 to 4 in one day.  Way to be passive-aggressive.... 

[Kot]

I'm not offended. And i didn't see any other cats here.

[blorgh]

Any chance we could see these rules as downloadable SR4a errata

You mean like the errata that went into the second printing of Augmentation?

[Mäx]

Any chance we could see these rules as downloadable SR4a errata

You mean like the errata that went into the second printing of Augmentation?

Or the one in the newest printing of Runners Companion

[Darkeus]

I'm not offended. And i didn't see any other cats here.

Lol.  Yeah, I got that habit of calling people "cats" from my uncle.  Old ass 50's term...

It just comes out sometimes....   

[Bull]

See?  This is why I find it baffling that they cut the Slang completely out of SR4.  It doesn't just vanish from our lexicon, even if it falls out of fashion!  Dialing it back I get, but just cutting it?  Bah.

I started slipping it into Missions occasionally (One of the key NPCs for the new Season uses it frequently, as he's a cranky old former shadowrunner).  I also noticed some of it made it's way into the fiction in Spells & Chrome, which was cool.

[Darkeus]

The slang never disappears in my campaigns.   

[Kontact]

Well, slang likes to cycle.

Ten years from now, people might start saying "phat," "pimp" or "tha bomb" again.
Though, at the rate VH1 recycles culture into entertainment.. maybe it'll take a week..

[Mystic]

There is a line in the SR novel Night's Pawn, when the hero, Jason Chase (already considered an "old timer" in the early 50s!) has just gotten the drop on some home invaders looking to punch his ticket and uses the word F*** (not sure I can use that word, but if you DONT know what it is, then welll....). To which one invader replies: "He said F***, how quaint".

Don't know why, but I always liked that.

[PeterSmith]

I'm sorry?  I thought we were having a pretty sedate conversation about War! and the state of CGL here.  If stating my dislike of the current regime is against the TOS, I must have missed that too.

Would have been nice if Helbie was a little clearer why he posted, but if I had to hazard a guess I would say the "...and the state of CGL..." part of the conversation is off topic. Might be better to spin that off into its own conversation.

[Sengir]

Then I noticed that certain people were bashing the book, people who are still a bit bitter about how things went down.

If I was with that crowd, I certainly wouldn't be defending David Hill as merely inexperienced with his new assignment (who wouldn't be?) and needing some editorial guidance...so maybe you should tone down your "the ex-freelancers are out to get us" paranoia a bit.

And no, W! is certainly not the apocalypse, as that word implies a sudden event which brings an end to something. War! is merely the continuation of a disturbing trend which ironically began after the realease of the much-laudated Seattle 2072. Vice was kinda "meh", but every product line has those. Then came the Corporate Layout Nightmare and especially the 6WA, baffling fans everywhere with incredibly poor factchecking and continuity errors. And now War!...well, at least the rules and equipment sections are well done overall. Given that the next book scheduled is MilSpec equipment (because a warfare sourcebook would have been the wrong place for that), I doubt the equipment sections are going to survive the slow whithering....

[Otakusensei]

I'm sorry?  I thought we were having a pretty sedate conversation about War! and the state of CGL here.  If stating my dislike of the current regime is against the TOS, I must have missed that too.

Would have been nice if Helbie was a little clearer why he posted, but if I had to hazard a guess I would say the "...and the state of CGL..." part of the conversation is off topic. Might be better to spin that off into its own conversation.

I can see that, but I think War! so perfectly shows the points people have in regards to the decline in quality, lack of care in CGL products and the inability to Jason to develop compelling material that it is on topic in this thread.  Certainly no more off topic than Bull talking about the lingo from earlier editions making a come back and why he approves.  I also wouldn't want to start a new "CGL Situation" thread on this forum since it's far more useful for everyone to bring up specific failures in a product then to start a new thread that basically says "I don't like you".

Though if someone has anything they'd like to bring up that deals directly with CGL or their current business practices it would make sense in a thread like that.  The freelancer chat transcript that Ancient History posted in others forums might be a good place to start with that.

[Mäx]

Given that the next book scheduled is MilSpec equipment (because a warfare sourcebook would have been the wrong place for that)

MillSpec Tech isn't a full sourcebook, it's PDF suplement for WAR, containing all the gear they couldn't fit into WAR.
Most likely similiar in size and cost to Digital grimoire and This Old Drone.