Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Character creation and critique => Topic started by: Inconnu on <06-25-18/1926:10>
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Before we begin, I should note that there are a couple of houserules in play;
•Spells can be acquired with no Karma cost INGAME. So I'm loaded at bare minimum.
•Specializations cost 2 karma
•You don't lose Magic unless your max magic falls under your current magic, not that it matters. I have no intention to compromise my 7 magic.
•You may initiate pre-game
I'll edit in any more that I remember.
And yes, I'm aware of the 0 arcana and the lack of a 'real' name. The memory Adept Power ain't for show.
I know it says Completed, but I'm allowed to make edits still.
Edit:
•You may have extra negative Qualities, but they grant no Karma. (Used to increase In Debt, grab E-Witness and Day Job to mitigate it.)
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A pixie packing a desert strike is a pretty big red flag to me, a personalized grip is not a racial size adjustment.
Further Mysads are just brokenly silly. I'd try and focus down your concept more, and streamline what this character is intended it to do. Pixie concept can commonly lead to these issues, but I would strongly recommend staying away any sort of tech based pixie build. Pixie mages are generally crushingly effective for obvious reasons, and if your gonna run pixie that's what I stick with. Pixie adept can work but are generally are a dangerous idea given the body restrictions, and the need to develop some sort compromise on the melee weapon question.
How are you getting 7 magic starting?
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How are you getting 7 magic starting?
He said they can start initiated.
That said, Marcus is right. A pixie handling any sniper rifle is... questionable at best, considering the rifle is probably bigger than they are. The Mysad depends on your table. Yours is pretty clearly for optimization given your spell choice, which always raises some questions. That said, some tables play that way.
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After initiation cost 10ish its still 35 karma to go from 6 to 7, which isn't in the normal starting point values. So ether there is another house rule not mentioned or the character is over spent.
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After initiation cost 10ish its still 35 karma to go from 6 to 7, which isn't in the normal starting point values. So ether there is another house rule not mentioned or the character is over spent.
Uh...I can spend the amount of karma that I have? I'm built on Karma build, not Priority or Sum-10...
Also...I should probably invest in Strength/Body enhancements of some kind to make the rifle more manageable, but the GM for the game in question approved it.
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a pixie with anything larger than a light pistol is, to put it bluntly, insanely ridiculous.
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a pixie with anything larger than a light pistol is, to put it bluntly, insanely ridiculous.
Since when was Shadowrun limited to the realm of the sane?
Besides which, since I intend to do all my sniping from the skies(hence the name), it would most likely knock me back a little in the air when fired.
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Also, the other players kept suggesting I put Overwatch in Restrictive armor. Which is even more ridiculous.
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8” tall person carrying a rifle that weighs about 15 times as much as he does. Let alone the massive recoil impulse. Haha 😆
its akin to a guinea pig trying to lift and carry a barret rifle.
rotflmao.
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8” tall person carrying a rifle that weighs about 15 times as much as he does. Let alone the massive recoil impulse. Haha 😆
its akin to a guinea pig trying to lift and carry a barret rifle.
rotflmao.
Where the hell are you getting 8 inches?
A pixie is half a meter tall. Hardly unmanageable.
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Well that makes it fairly clear a rational argument isn't going to be of any use here.
Which put simply is enough to end my involvement with this.
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Well that makes it fairly clear a rational argument isn't going to be of any use here.
Which put simply is enough to end my involvement with this.
We have agreed to assume it's somehow scaled down or otherwise managed. :P and there is a massive difference between 8 inches and 18 inches....
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Haha smaller than a 1 year old carrying a .5 bmg rifle. Hahaha.
“Scaled down” haha
Why not use a mini gun?
Or halberd?
Oh no it’s a flying halberd attack!
But yeah 18 vs 8 inches is correct.
Sorry this is so hilarious I’m peeing my pants.
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Well that makes it fairly clear a rational argument isn't going to be of any use here.
Which put simply is enough to end my involvement with this.
We have agreed to assume it's somehow scaled down or otherwise managed. :P and there is a massive difference between 8 inches and 18 inches....
A 'massive' difference? Maybe. But certainly not for the substance of this argument. For comparison the M24 sniper rifle used by the USMC, a decent compairson to the Desert Strike is 43 inches long, i.e. over twice as long as your character, and probably weights more too. That's not saying anything with regards to the recoil (which is a bitch) or handling that SoB while flying. So you being 18 inches tall instead of 8 is basically a distinction without a difference. The problem with scaling it down is that scaling it down to a manageable size for a pixie would basically erase everything that makes the Desert Strike useful, specifically range, armor penetration and stopping power. That's simply a function of the amount of space the rifle takes up, and short of magic (of the literal or technological variety) there's no way around it.
However, if it works at your table and your GM is ok with it, then by all means ignore all of us and have a fraggin blast with it. Sounds like a crazy/fun character for a high end pink Mohawk campaign.
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Well that makes it fairly clear a rational argument isn't going to be of any use here.
Which put simply is enough to end my involvement with this.
We have agreed to assume it's somehow scaled down or otherwise managed. :P and there is a massive difference between 8 inches and 18 inches....
A 'massive' difference? Maybe. But certainly not for the substance of this argument. For comparison the M24 sniper rifle used by the USMC, a decent compairson to the Desert Strike is 43 inches long, i.e. over twice as long as your character, and probably weights more too. That's not saying anything with regards to the recoil (which is a bitch) or handling that SoB while flying. So you being 18 inches tall instead of 8 is basically a distinction without a difference. The problem with scaling it down is that scaling it down to a manageable size for a pixie would basically erase everything that makes the Desert Strike useful, specifically range, armor penetration and stopping power. That's simply a function of the amount of space the rifle takes up, and short of magic (of the literal or technological variety) there's no way around it.
However, if it works at your table and your GM is ok with it, then by all means ignore all of us and have a fraggin blast with it. Sounds like a crazy/fun character for a high pink Mohawk campaign.
The funny thing? I'm also (unfortunately) the face, and insisted on trying to keep our run clean because that way we don't leave loose ends.
So far, we've negotiated for one of three items to collect for our first run.
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Pixies and guns don't work.
Why?
Do you want the science behind it?
OR,
do you want it in picture form?
Both are available by me on these forums, just search "Pixie with guns"....
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The funny thing? I'm also (unfortunately) the face, and insisted on trying to keep our run clean because that way we don't leave loose ends.
So far, we've negotiated for one of three items to collect for our first run.
Not quite sure what you're saying in that first part, but I'm pretty sure the funny part is the glorified butterfly handling the .50 caliber deathstick.
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The funny thing? I'm also (unfortunately) the face, and insisted on trying to keep our run clean because that way we don't leave loose ends.
So far, we've negotiated for one of three items to collect for our first run.
Not quite sure what you're saying in that first part, but I'm pretty sure the funny part is the glorified butterfly handling the .50 caliber deathstick.
That I'm entirely built to be Pink Mohawk and ended up being the voice of peace and reason.
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Righto...
THIS is why people laugh at the idea of a "pixie with a sniper rifle" concept.
In the picture, is a 30-06 hunting rifle, which is a good stand in for the average sniper rifle in use by many police agencies around the world. (this is a M800 Remington, the most popular sniper rifle in the world is the M700, the .308 version of this rifle without the fancy furniture)
This rifle is 63 cm shorter then the M82, which is a .50 cal sniper rifle.
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And... so you can compare. The big round on the end is a .50 cal. The 3rd round in is a .308..... The .50 round has a mass almost 4 times that of a .308 cal round.
The .50 also produces up to 18 kilojules (15000 ft-pds!) of energy when fired. 4 times that of a 30-06 round! And 18,000 joules (15000 ft-lb) of recoil that must be absorbed by the firer.
Just so we are clear, that is 15 tons of force that you have to counter act with the mass of the shooter, at the instant of firing.
The pixie doesn't shoot the rifle. The rifle CUTS the pixie in half when shot.
*in case you don't know the size of a dollar bill, it is 6.62 cm tall.. or about 1/7 the size of a Pixie.
a .50 cal rifle round is around 6 inches in length... or 15.5 cm, about 1/3 the size of the pixie, JUST FOR THE CARTRIDGE!
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I love you reaver
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And... so you can compare. The big round on the end is a .50 cal. The 3rd round in is a .308..... The .50 round has a mass almost 4 times that of a .308 cal round.
The .50 also produces up to 18 kilojules (15000 ft-pds!) of energy when fired. 4 times that of a 30-06 round! And 18,000 joules (15000 ft-lb) of recoil that must be absorbed by the firer.
Just so we are clear, that is 15 tons of force that you have to counter act with the mass of the shooter, at the instant of firing.
The pixie doesn't shoot the rifle. The rifle CUTS the pixie in half when shot.
*in case you don't know the size of a dollar bill, it is 6.62 cm tall.. or about 1/7 the size of a Pixie.
a .50 cal rifle round is around 6 inches in length... or 15.5 cm, about 1/3 the size of the pixie, JUST FOR THE CARTRIDGE!
You're missing a point. While I won't deny holding the sniper rifle is a little silly... a lot silly. You're assuming the shooter is stationary.
Being in midair means that I get to actually be pushed backwards when I fire it. Instead of absorbing that force.
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Actually, you would not get pushed backward. Take a look at Reavers picture. The only way to hold that rifle, if you can lift it at all, is to basically hug it to your chest while leaning over it to put your face into the scope. The second you fired, you'd be sent into a spin, since you cannot make use of the shoulder rest to absorb and DISTRIBUTE any of the recoil. Further, with a max strength of 2, and a tiny body, there's a not insignificant chance of you shattering your arms after you fire it.
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Actually, you would not get pushed backward. Take a look at Reavers picture. The only way to hold that rifle, if you can lift it at all, is to basically hug it to your chest while leaning over it to put your face into the scope. The second you fired, you'd be sent into a spin, since you cannot make use of the shoulder rest to absorb and DISTRIBUTE any of the recoil. Further, with a max strength of 2, and a tiny body, there's a not insignificant chance of you shattering your arms after you fire it.
actually, no.
the arm in the picture is at full extension, and even then it does not reach the trigger from the butt stock.
Simply put: "Little T-Rex arms don't reach"
At best. you are looking at more of a shoulder mounted, like a WW2 bazooka, or panzershrek(sp?).
Then there is the physics of the torque.
We are talking about a large object being extended out past the center of mass, an object that has considerable weight to the object..
EXAMPLE AT HOME TIME!
Grab the jug of milk from the fridge, hold it close to your chest. Now hold it straight out in front of you. Notice the muscle strain difference, yet the actual weight didn't change?
I don't know the math Torque off the top of my head (its an auto-fill on the program at work :D), I'll leave that up to the more arithmetic inclined :P But I can give you an example that I do know off the top of my head, just because I deal with it all the time.
An Aerial manlift with a boom extension of 80ft, has a base weight of 56,700 lbs, and at max extension, can only support 500 lbs, anything more and the machine will tip! (and I know this because I have to weight my tools AND gear for the basket every time I use a machine for insurance reasons after 3 tip overs in 15 years.)
But, basically, this would be the Hulk of pixies to pull it off.
Inconnu,
The fact that you are not on the ground makes it WORSE, not better. By being airborne, you take away your own mass as a counter reaction to the recoil. Now all that 18,000 joules of energy is transferred to you to absorb.
This goes back to the laws of Physics. Again. The impact velocity of the weapon into your frame by the recoil, is now resisted by the smallest point, outward, without mass (as in gravity and your weight) compensation. The first thing impacted at 18000 joules of energy is your soft tissue (at point of impact), followed by ligaments (at PoI), Then Bone (at PoI), spreading outward to the rest of your frame, and then finally impacting your change in direction; Which is a factor of speeds and directions of impacts, and all other fancy science things that go beyond the pay grade of an Instrument Mechanic...
In short, that 18000 joules goes INTO you before it changes your direction. And given your mass as a Pixie, That could mean INTO you as in "the rifle stock enters your chest cavity, ending your life instantly".
Again. Pixies and Guns Don't Work.
Lets put this into more real world perspective.
The 51-Mustang, mounted a Merlin RR Engine with an output of 1400 horsepower without Boosting. It was also armed with 6 Browning .50 cal machine guns with a fire rate of 600 rounds a minute.
A 3 second burst from the guns would slow the Mustang 3 to 12 km/h depending on altitude.
The P-51 Mustang had a gross weight of 12,300 lbs.
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What I hear is 'drone with tripod gun mounted on it'.
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What I hear is 'drone with tripod gun mounted on it'.
Yeah, a drone sounds much more manageable. Pixie size might even be able to ride it
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Before we begin, I should note that there are a couple of houserules in play;
More than a couple? How knowledgeable is your GM about simple physical mechanics and how they work, i.e. gravity being pretty important?
A sustained Levitate spell on your weapon might enable you to carry it about, then fire it with a tripod, or the like, from a pretty level surface, but to fire it while 'flying', hanging, suspended, etc. makes this idea problematical even with Levitate.
Do you have other rationales/Spells in mind to utilize?
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Before we begin, I should note that there are a couple of houserules in play;
More than a couple? How knowledgeable is your GM about simple physical mechanics and how they work, i.e. gravity being pretty important?
A sustained Levitate spell on your weapon might enable you to carry it about, then fire it with a tripod, or the like, from a pretty level surface, but to fire it while 'flying', hanging, suspended, etc. makes this idea problematical even with Levitate.
Do you have other rationales/Spells in mind to utilize?
Well, I mean, I could always spend 12 karma to perm Strength and Body increases, bringing both to 5, and incidentally, making me the previously mentioned 'hulk of pixies'...
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Well, it says somewhere that even a troll would have difficulty carrying one of the bigger sniper rifles, so Strength of 5 wouldn't help all that much.
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this is the problem of rules lawyers and people lacking common sense. if you don't spell out in the rules the obvious things that you cannot do they will always attempt to do them.
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Before we begin, I should note that there are a couple of houserules in play;
More than a couple? How knowledgeable is your GM about simple physical mechanics and how they work, i.e. gravity being pretty important?
A sustained Levitate spell on your weapon might enable you to carry it about, then fire it with a tripod, or the like, from a pretty level surface, but to fire it while 'flying', hanging, suspended, etc. makes this idea problematical even with Levitate.
Do you have other rationales/Spells in mind to utilize?
Well, I mean, I could always spend 12 karma to perm Strength and Body increases, bringing both to 5, and incidentally, making me the previously mentioned 'hulk of pixies'...
If you and your GM are ok with it then your character is fine. Don't worry about us. But if you're here to try and justify a pixie handling a rifle three times its size to us, don't bother. It's a losing battle. The physics, quite flatly, isn't on your side.
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this is the problem of rules lawyers and people lacking common sense. if you don't spell out in the rules the obvious things that you cannot do they will always attempt to do them.
Was this directed at me?
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R u running a pixie with a .5bmg smiper rifle?
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R u running a pixie with a .5bmg smiper rifle?
No.
However, the wording of 'Levitate' should be clear enough for everyone to understand, whether they should have a knowledge of physics and/or lack common sense. I may think that some Spells in Street Grimoire are particularly silly, but there they are. :)
There's enough argument in these forums as to how many angels may dance on the head of a pin, let alone ignore (or rules lawyer) something that clearly is legal, as written within the SR Rules. But, as a GM, I would discourage such things.
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then the comment was not for you ;-)
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R u running a pixie with a .5bmg smiper rifle?
Did you bit your thumb at me Sir?
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLAIBclQIFQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLAIBclQIFQ)
Because its relevant to this conversation, I present to you some great recoil fails.
around the 1:00 mark, you get to see some people shooting what I think is a .500 Nitro Express, which is a commercial hunting round - although I have no idea what you are shooting with it.... (Oh yea, its also a ".50 cal" by the fact that the diameter of the round is 13mm or half an inch.)
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around the 1:00 mark, you get to see some people shooting what I think is a .500 Nitro Express, which is a commercial hunting round - although I have no idea what you are shooting with it.... (Oh yea, its also a ".50 cal" by the fact that the diameter of the round is 13mm or half an inch.)
Man whatever that thing is, it's must be HUGE, i mean one those guys was braced, at 3 points and kneeling, and it still jumped out off his hand. I gotta show this to some friends.
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The silly thing about Pixies is that they have as many physical boxes as full-sized humans, with body and strength is within human norms. I thought the difference between a human and a pixie should be more dramatic than that between a troll and a human. Strange option...
That said, Pixies can use guns quite effectively and stealthy with the magic-fingers spell.
With self-concealment, good luck understanding who is even firing on you.
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All I will say is read up on magic fingers again.....you are missing someyhing very important....
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What I am reading implies that perhaps I need more than a single spell, not that it cannot be done. You do not even have to pull the trigger (e.g. Trigger removal). So you need to point the darn thing in the right direction according to the SmartLink camera. If you cannot extend the magic hands enough from one another just use two independent spells to hold the gun.
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I'd suggest using the spell Growth (FA p.49) to increase your size and physical attributes until you can actually use guns.
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What I am reading implies that perhaps I need more than a single spell, not that it cannot be done. You do not even have to pull the trigger (e.g. Trigger removal). So you need to point the darn thing in the right direction according to the SmartLink camera. If you cannot extend the magic hands enough from one another just use two independent spells to hold the gun.
There are a couple of spells that could be used in combination, yes. (Jack lists one).
Keep in mind some things here:
Cyberware for a pixie is a total GM call. They are not "metahuman" and the fact that they vanish on death means there has been no study of their nervious system, cardio system, or any other in depth study of their physiology (which makes cyber ware designed for a metahuman system - at 4 times the mass! A 'little tricky' to implant).
For each spell you sustain, you recieve a -2 dice pool to all other actions - like shooting. So maintaining 2 to 3 spells is a -4 to -6 dice to shoot.
There are ways to overcome the DP hit, but those require both karma and money.....
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Really, the action and resource economy needed for a pixie to shoot a gun is just too high when there are other better options available for cheaper costs...
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I really don't understand the fascination with sniper pixie concept.
Folks Understanding something Spells work Just fine!!!
Blasting a target from high up in the sky while invisible works just as well with spellcasting as it does with a gun.
Get yourself seriously high dice tooth pick sized wand focus, using legality cheating quality, and then some regents and suddenly you can become smallest weapon of mass destruction humanity has ever seen, capable of blowing up whole blocks from the air without ever even leaving improved invisibility. They aren't going pick you radar, you're what like 2 feet tall?
Put down the rifle and go read my wand martial art! lol
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I really don't understand the fascination with sniper pixie concept.
Folks Understanding something Spells work Just fine!!!
Blasting a target from high up in the sky while invisible works just as well with spellcasting as it does with a gun.
Get yourself seriously high dice tooth pick sized wand focus, using legality cheating quality, and then some regents and suddenly you can suddenly become smallest weapon mass destruction humanity has ever seen, capable of blowing up whole blocks from the air without ever even leaving improved invisibility. They aren't going pick you radar, you're what like 2 feet tall?
Put down the rifle and go read my wand martial art! lol
Agreed.
The small size, natural abilities, and movement of Pixies make them frightful spellcasters.
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Technically Psyche is available to decrease the sustaining burdens. I'd disallow using F1 Sustaining Foci, though, or rather I'd state that the limit is [MIN(Force, Accuracy)].
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Technically Psyche is available to decrease the sustaining burdens. I'd disallow using F1 Sustaining Foci, though, or rather I'd state that the limit is [MIN(Force, Accuracy)].
(That just makes it easier to sustain Improved invisibility while bombing the silly humans back to the dark ages bwwhahahahaha!!)