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A. Nonymous

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bigity

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« Reply #360 on: <10-07-11/1507:13> »
Sounds like Patrick does what I do, and ignores what he doesn't care about or like.  So I'm not sure where you are coming from.

I'd also like to see where in any source outside of the trilogy mentions specifics about Dunk's death (specifically, the whole cyberzombie possession and blocking stuff out in astral space).  This is an ernest question, if there is shadowtalk about this, I'd like to read it (or reread it again now).

Sichr

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« Reply #361 on: <10-07-11/1510:00> »
You know what, I believe there is a reason for the meta-argument like this. But...lets not talk about our favourite game like it is something "outside" this discussion. No. This discussion is inside the game, firmly connected with curreent game universe topics, characters a events. Lets talk aboout that, not some meta-plot things we wont change and will just adapt them in our games or not, just by our taste.

BTW: I believe the city mentioned talking about new coastline is Bogotá, (now that is really awesome bullshit, I wont be amazed that who wrote this needs a GPS navigation to find a place to piss on his toilet...)

Patrick Goodman

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« Reply #362 on: <10-07-11/1536:50> »
Sounds like Patrick does what I do, and ignores what he doesn't care about or like.  So I'm not sure where you are coming from.
Not exactly. You ignore them, and they don't exist in your world. As I said, I don't have that luxury.

I ignore them because they don't make much difference to what I'm working on, but they still happen out there in the great big glorious whirlwind that is Shadowrun, and it's not outside the realm of possibility that they might have an impact on something I am interested in.

Bad example, but it's the one that comes to mind right now because of a project I'm working on and because I don't have a lot of my reference with me here at work: I ignore a lot of Big D's will because it doesn't have much bearing on what I write, because I write stuff in little corners of the universe that no one else is using (my little tagline to the left is not facetious, for instance). But the will is still there, and there are a couple of provisions I have to pay attention to because they do directly or indirectly affect the project I'm working on right now.

It's a bad example because I happen to think that Big D getting killed and leaving a will behind was a work of pure genius that reenergized the game line and has spawned repurcussions that are occurring to this very day. But it's an example of something I ignore a lot of the time because it has little direct relevance to my own work.

You, on the other hand, would apparently just say, "Well, I don't like Dunkelzahn leaving a will, so it never happened." I might be wrong about that, but the trend I've picked up from all of this is that you'd excise it from your universe...at which point, it makes talking about the baseline universe of the game a tad difficult.
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I'd also like to see where in any source outside of the trilogy mentions specifics about Dunk's death (specifically, the whole cyberzombie possession and blocking stuff out in astral space).  This is an ernest question, if there is shadowtalk about this, I'd like to read it (or reread it again now).
In-universe substantiation of that is almost, if not entirely, nil in the game books. There are only three or four people who even know (Harlequin, Mercury, Daviar, and maybe Frosty, I forget), and none of them are particularly inclined to talk about those events. Of those four, Frosty is the only one who's a regular JackPointer, and thus the only one who would have a regular chance to comment on that in public. Again, she's not talking, and really, the opportunity for her to do so even if she was so inclined has not really arisen.
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bigity

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« Reply #363 on: <10-07-11/1548:45> »
Oh no, Dunk's dead (apparently).  That's well covered in the game material, as was the will, ghostwalker's arrival, and the escape of the shedim from the same rift. 

However, the fact he offed himself, moved into his shiny new cyberzombie home, and powers a device that keeps the horrors at bay for now is what I redact/gloss over/ignore/don't like.  It's hard to accept the novel 'canon' at face value when it's not backed up in any game material.

At the very least it's a viable option for a table to ignore/change those specific circumstances in the novel trilogy.

CanRay

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« Reply #364 on: <10-07-11/1634:39> »
In-Universe, as far as everyone knows, he was assassinated.  Out-of-Universe, "fraggedifweknow" works just fine for me.  Some questions are best left unanswered.  *Looks hard at Inception*
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Crimsondude

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« Reply #365 on: <10-07-11/1708:25> »
Ok so how do shapeshifters work then?  The way Stackpole wrote or the way the rules say?
According to the rules in Fourth Edition, and depending on whether it is a PC shapeshifter or an NPC shapeshifter.

It's been mentioned before, but Stackpole's novels were written when they were still creating Shadowrun. He had the ultimate artistic license, and yet he was trumped early into the game on a number of things ranging from shapeshifters to professional baseball in the canon.

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Where are the rules about spirits of light?
Unwritten. GM Discretion, one supposes. It's with the rules for making a sandwich.

There has been a long policy among line developers to keep things vague or outright unknown, and that includes rules. However, just because there are no rules for something doesn't mean it can't happen/exist in Shadowrun.

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Where are the rules about having all your cyber purged out and restoring your ability to use magic again?
Unwritten. GM Discretion, again. However, you can't say that regaining magic is not canon. Dr. Miles Swineburn had burned out his magic with too many Euro Wars implants. In Portfolio of a Dragon, he gets his magic back after receiving the tarot deck Dunk left him.

In Year of the Comet SURGEing and getting the Astral Sight effect gave your character Magic 1. Period. Essence be damned. That was funny as Hell to see on a character with a quarter point of Essence left. As I recall, that is what happened to the character in question. They had cybereyes, SURGEd, and voila! New eyes. That isn't a rules thing. It's a RP thing written by the guy who wrote most of the SR2 magic rules. In fact, this is what the Astral Sight effect does:
Quote from: YotC, 140
Astral Sight (6)


The character undergoes a limited Awakening, acquiring a Magic rating of 1. This Awakening allows her to open her perceptions to the astral plane and assense, just like a magician (see Astral Perception, p. 171, SR3). She can also now learn the Magical skills of Aura Reading and Enchanting. She cannot astrally project, however, nor does she gain access to any other magical abilities or skills.


This effect cannot be applied to Awakened characters (including adepts).
So either Kenson said to Hell with the rules, that there is more to the effect that what is in YotC, it was an unpublished SURGE effect, or it was something completely different. Doesn't matter. However, I can tell you that Magic in the Shadows says that only Awakened characters can initiate and there is an interpretation that says the list in parentheses that lists full magicians, aspected magicians, and adepts is not, and could not be comprehensive. Since technically the character is Awakened (limited Awakening is still Awakening) there is an argument that I've seen successfully made that a character with astral sight can Initiate and if they are willing to eat the karma costs for buying the magician or adept Edge in-game, could become "more."


There's no rule that says you can, but there's nothing that says you can't. And while I have recently made my thoughts on authorial intent and interpretation known if the guy who wrote the magic rules says it's possible and in canon it happened, that is a strong argument to make to a GM.

There were references to the physical events of the finale in Beyond the Pale with the locus in at least one sourcebook, however. Tommy Talon's adventure to whatever metaplane he was in when he crossed Ghostwalker's path is canon as of Street Legends.

As for Bogotá, there's no map, but as I recall the comment in regards to that mini-sub is not ... comprehensive. But just as a reminder this is also the game where an entire country (Luxembourg) is now part of a tri-national irradiated zone, Libya is a post-nuclear wasteland that exists solely for corporate war games, most of the Los Angeles basin (along with other chunks of California and Baja California) is underwater, an localized EMP bomb somehow crippled the Panama Canal so that Aztechnology had to go and carve a new one through Nicaragua in less than five years, and an island emerged in the middle of the Pacific Ocean one day filled with natural orichalcum.

Shadowrun is not reality. However, Patrick may be too modest to say it but the fact is that Shadowrun isn't Dr. Who. There is a canon. That canon, like all canons going back to Church canon law, which is where we get the name, is defined by arbiters: Us, the freelancers and artists (Oh, yeah. The art has been, AFAIK, canon.) as permitted by the line developers. That's why I don't mind that Lofwyr has stats. Anyone can kill him in their game, but he's not dead in the canon continuity unless we say he is.

We are like a buffet. We put out what we think will be most enjoyable and useful for your consumption, and then let you have at it. Bring in your own food if you like. However, the selection is what the selection is. Unless I'm told differently, the events of the Dragon Heart Saga are canon. You don't have to like it or use it, but that's the way it is as the game is being continually constructed even if it never comes up again.
« Last Edit: <10-07-11/1729:02> by James Meiers »

Nath

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« Reply #366 on: <10-07-11/1928:48> »
an localized EMP bomb somehow crippled the Panama Canal so that Aztechnology had to go and carve a new one through Nicaragua in less than five years
My understanding of System Failure (and the reading of the released material intended for the doomed Shadows of Latin America sourcebook) is that the Nicaragua Canal project was already under way when Winternight attacked the Panama Canal in 2064. So, the project may have taken up to six or seven years to complete, as the "new canal" is open in early 2070, by the time of Runner Havens.

IRL, it took twelve years to the French company to carve about a tenth of the Panama Canal (and two times more unused excavation) and only nine years to the US Army to carve the rest with late 19th-early 20th century technology. In 2006, the Nicaraguan government claimed the Nicaragua Canal project would take twelve years to complete. And that's without summoning Earth spirits and augmenting workers with muscle replacement cyberware.
« Last Edit: <10-29-11/1139:19> by Nath »

CanRay

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« Reply #367 on: <10-07-11/1936:36> »
I keep hearing things like that, and thinking, "You know, if we just got a bunch of miners and let them have as much Demo as they'd like..."

But that's growing up in a mining town...
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Crimsondude

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« Reply #368 on: <10-07-11/2112:34> »
God I hate System Failure. Not nearly as much as Loose Alliances, of course.

Mason

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« Reply #369 on: <10-07-11/2247:05> »
God I hate System Failure. Not nearly as much as Loose Alliances, of course.

Oh? Why do you hate them so much?

ARC

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« Reply #370 on: <10-09-11/2343:07> »
Just the generalized chaos they cause.  Probably.
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Crimsondude

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« Reply #371 on: <10-10-11/0009:14> »
Chaos is fine.

I don't think they are good products.

FastJack

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« Reply #372 on: <10-29-11/1135:07> »
Latest post from our mysterious JackPointer is to up the count of the Phaistos Killer. Does that mean he has a connection to it, or just a connection to those that found out quicker?

freddieflatline

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« Reply #373 on: <10-31-11/1224:46> »
Latest post from our mysterious JackPointer is to up the count of the Phaistos Killer. Does that mean he has a connection to it, or just a connection to those that found out quicker?

What book is that from?

Nath

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« Reply #374 on: <10-31-11/1515:37> »
Artifacts Unbound, page 36. Anonymous poster updates the victims count of the Phaistos Killer. "The Phaistos Killer" adventure is set in Denver, which may imply the anonymous poster is will informed on events as they happen in Denver (like, having contacts in the Denver law enforcement agencies).