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A. Nonymous

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hobgoblin

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« Reply #330 on: <10-05-11/1106:35> »
Could be a reference to we as in humanity, and how spying have been a part of human society for as long as it has existed in organized form.
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CanRay

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« Reply #331 on: <10-05-11/1110:05> »
Proactive Research Under Concealment, thank you very much.  ;D
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The Wyrm Ouroboros

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« Reply #332 on: <10-05-11/2250:59> »
Quote from: Spy Games, p. 136
Great dragons and their ilk have yet to accept that the world moves faster than them, and it has no regard for their plans. They may think long-term, but humans are unpredictable and a bit crazy. We’ve also been playing this game for millennia without end.
Anyone else marked the word "WE" in the last sentence? Wasnt there an imortal who was an inventor and such (I recall something about Leonardo IMO)

And if he is able to hack FastJack...well IDN where this cames from, this might be an interresting coincidence?

If we must go to Leonardo, let us dwell ever-so-pleasantly on Lofwyr's irritated reply to His Twittishness -- giving him the option of 'roast' or 'bake'.  Ne'er was an NPC's death ever so well-earned.  He (Leonardo/Brightlight) was, however, an Immortal Elf; 'nuff said.

I would tend to agree that the 'we' is a racial comment -- 'we' are humans, and while great dragons may be ten or twenty thousand years old, they snooze for 5k years at a time while humanity keeps on developing, learning, becoming crafty, daring things that no sane immortal would think about.  Dragons want to be on top in 500 years; humans want to be on top in 5.  We move faster, we make peculiar 'knight' moves (i.e. not in a straight line), we put things together more oddly, faster, weirder, and -- eventually -- better.  Dragons are history; humanity (which includes metahumanity, except maybe IEs) is all about the future...
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CanRay

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« Reply #333 on: <10-05-11/2303:12> »
If you play the short game, sure.

Playing a long game, however...  That's when things get quite a bit more...  Interesting.

And dragons can play knight moves as well.  Dunkie proved that with his will.
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The Wyrm Ouroboros

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« Reply #334 on: <10-06-11/0013:31> »
The main knight move he played there was mostly on his fellow dragons.  Everything else was sort of an extension of his original plan.

... and then there's the issue that Dunkelzahn was not a normal dragon at all ...
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New Wyrm!! Now with Twice the Bastard!!

Laés is ... I forget. -PiXeL01
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Sichr

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« Reply #335 on: <10-06-11/0252:50> »
Since this discussion is intended to include some usefull info... can you please point me to references on Brightlights death you mentioned?

And that about Dunkie...IMO he was normal dragon...Loremaster, but normal dragon. Like Lowfyr or Ghostwalker is.

FastJack

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« Reply #336 on: <10-06-11/0825:07> »
Since this discussion is intended to include some usefull info... can you please point me to references on Brightlights death you mentioned?
There's a bit about him in Blood in the Boardroom, in the "Neck and Neck" section.

Patrick Goodman

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« Reply #337 on: <10-06-11/1117:26> »
I think one or the other, or perhaps both, of you should define "normal" in the context of a Great Dragon. Or any other dragon, for that matter.
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Ryu

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« Reply #338 on: <10-06-11/1451:46> »
Considering the influence Great Dragons can wield, and that she's actually openly amassing?  Everyone should.
Yes, everyone should care about Dragons. I like.

Concerning the tone, our poster is disenchanted with Dunkie, but deeply anoyed by Hestaby´s false face. The data presented alone can be explained by an ARGUS account or any other qualified intelligence material. There needs to be something personal here.

The Wyrm Ouroboros

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« Reply #339 on: <10-06-11/2359:10> »
And that about Dunkie...IMO he was normal dragon...Loremaster, but normal dragon. Like Lowfyr or Ghostwalker is.

Dunkelzahn was a normal dragon in the same sort of way that Einstein was a normal human, or Edison, or, I don't know -- someone find me a social genius.  Dunkelzahn was just about the only Great Dragon who recognized that humanity was moving far, far faster than ever they had, that the sheer pace of technology might actually reach parity with the power of magic -- exceed it, in fact.  That the furious pace and advancement of humanity would fast become their greatest hope, the best and brightest possibility for fighting back against the Horrors, for meeting them as equals on the field of battle, and even, perhaps, of turning the tide against them even at the height of magic's power.

Dunkelzahn, in essence, reacted more rapidly and more like a human than any other dragon, especially any other Great Dragon.  And that makes him most unusual.
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Old As McBean, Twice As Mean
"Oh, gee - it's Go-Frag-Yourself-O'Clock."
New Wyrm!! Now with Twice the Bastard!!

Laés is ... I forget. -PiXeL01
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CanRay

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« Reply #340 on: <10-07-11/0126:28> »
Point...  Most dragons woke up cranky or wanted to know how to build their empire the best.

Dunkie wanted his own TV show.  And got it.

...

Well, who the hell was going to tell him, "No."?
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The Wyrm Ouroboros

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« Reply #341 on: <10-07-11/0219:33> »
Kind of / sort of.  Most of the dragons went for Power -- own a big company and/or control territory.

Primarily corporate dragons are few:
  • Lofwyr (Saeder-Krupp)
  • Rhonabwy (Transys Neuronet)
This isn't to say that the rest of them don't have claws in other corporations, just that their focus isn't on building their corporation.  Not the way those two are.  Most of them go for physical territory:
  • Hestaby (Shasta area)
  • Ryumyo (Japan)
  • Lung (China)
  • Ghostwalker (Denver; yes, I know he came after, but he fits the frame)
  • Hualpa (Amazonia)
  • Aden (The Middle East)
  • Masaru (The Philippines)
  • Rhonabwy (Wales)
  • Schwartzkopf (Eastern Europe)
  • Mujaji (South Africa)
Of course, many of these are clashing with Lofwyr as he spreads his corporate Power into their areas; Aden fights him by proxy fairly regularly as they strive for control over the Middle East.

A very few seem to particularly pursue either raw Power or use the mass of power they have to pursue their own agendas:
  • Sirrug is hunting the dragon-hunters without care for collateral damage;
  • Alamais is opposing everyone (and especially Lofwyr) just for the sake of sticking his thumb in their eye;
  • Kaltenstein is (was?) trying to scrub the world of toxics before he went batsh!t crazy;
  • and Arleesh is ... Arleesh.  If you don't already know what she's doing, welcome to the truly bizarre end of the universe.
In all these, Power is the goal, or Power is the weapon; Power, first and foremost and above all, is what's going on.

Not so with Dunkelzahn.

The Big D may have acquired Power, but never openly; what he sought was Influence.  Influence over people's hearts and minds and perceptions, the way people thought (about him, about dragons, about magic, about metahumanity, just generally about the Sixth World), the direction of their research, everything.  He wanted to learn about people, why they thought the way they thought; he took a wild-hair-up-his-tail plunge in 2033 by funding a brain-trust of stock manipulators and computer programmers and helped them plan, program, and pull off a computer-driven genius stock scramble that functionally did in 63 seconds what took patient, thorough, and utterly draconic Lofwyr 20 years to do -- take over a AAA-rated megacorporation.

20 years, boiled down to 63 seconds.  That's a reduction of over ten million times.  Dunkelzahn saw how humanity moved; he learned.  He studied, he realized, he understood, and most important of all, he adapted.  This is unusual for humans; in dragons, it's bloody near unheard of.

Did he get Power from it?  Sure he did, but Power was neither his goal nor his tool.  Influence was his leverage, his raison d'etre, and learning and adapting was how he went about it -- something that the other Great Dragons, and even the Immortal Elves, simply have lost the knack of doing, either easily or well.  No, Dunkelzahn was a most abnormal dragon indeed ...
Pananagutan & End/Line

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"Oh, gee - it's Go-Frag-Yourself-O'Clock."
New Wyrm!! Now with Twice the Bastard!!

Laés is ... I forget. -PiXeL01
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Sichr

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« Reply #342 on: <10-07-11/0641:24> »
Look...bigD was nice and all, and you compare him to other dragons like he was something superrior and that his behavior gives him some kind of edge.

Well

He is dead now, while others are still alive.

So maybe his strategy wasn`t the best one to follow...

Valashar

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« Reply #343 on: <10-07-11/0658:50> »
He's dead because he felt the best way to secure things long term for the world in general, and yes for his own plans to have a chance to mature, was to commit physical suicide in order to fully secure the spike bridge. While I haven't read any of the novels in a LONG time, as I understand D's still more or less alive as an astral entity stuck in the body of a cyberzombie standing watch over the bridge. So yeah, he's as good as dead to the rest of the world, but he certainly took the steps to keep things rolling in his absence. It's just a matter of waiting to see if his chosen proxy/heir can continue in his stead and in his style.
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FastJack

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« Reply #344 on: <10-07-11/0811:43> »
He is dead now, while others are still alive.
Dead, but not gone...