[belaran]

I confess I did not read all the previous post, just wanted to add my 2 cents: +1 on Dissonant and Resonance. Seems to be a very cool hook for scenario and campaign, and the data I've gathered on it reading most of the 5th edition source book is not enough to make it useable.

Also, technomancer clearly look like mage/shaman in the matrix, so I'm pretty sure there is people (or at least) corp trying to break this barrier (having mage/shaman trying to invoke sprites or tm trying to use resonance to do counter spell). A couple of paranoid Plan 9 conspiracy's theories about that could be nice to see...

Oh, last item. When I picked up Shadowrun 5th, I really found the hacker rules difficult to grasp. So I end up writing a small solo adventure (you know with paragraph numbers, like in the steve jackson series), for me but also help people understanding them. If you introduced a lot of new mechanisms for TM, I would recommand adding a small adventure like that. So that GM and PCs can just run the adventure and get a better, concrete grasp of the new rules.

(sorry if I just echo previous ideas)

[Rooks]

Create Rules for a Droneomancer basically a Technomancer that uses the matrix to control drones much like how a Rigger uses his RCC to control drones but instead the Droneomancer uses his living personal to control them and complex forms could be something like Autosofts or cyber programs

[falar]

Create Rules for a Droneomancer basically a Technomancer that uses the matrix to control drones much like how a Rigger uses his RCC to control drones but instead the Droneomancer uses his living personal to control them and complex forms could be something like Autosofts or cyber programs

This already exists. See MMRI echo.

[HiddenBoss]

This already exists. See MMRI echo.

That only the echo that copys the control rig, we got no way of being like a rigger without owning a RCC for Autosofts or cyber programs and if we use a rcc to jump in, we not using our living persona so that kills the point.
do not think complex forms would be the best way to do it as you take -2 per complex forms and we can not be part of a pan right now, maybe it can uses your skils as auto softs if you could be "rcc"

[Rooks]

Would solved the whole Riggers are the lawls issue with 5e for sure

[Moonshine Fox]

This already exists. See MMRI echo.

That only the echo that copys the control rig, we got no way of being like a rigger without owning a RCC for Autosofts or cyber programs and if we use a rcc to jump in, we not using our living persona so that kills the point.
do not think complex forms would be the best way to do it as you take -2 per complex forms and we can not be part of a pan right now, maybe it can uses your skils as auto softs if you could be "rcc"

Welcome to the current state of technomancers. Cool fluff, but the mechanics need work to get them to work like the fluff.

[Dyndrilliac]

Here is my Technomancer wish list, in order.

• I shouldn't have to spend 6 submersions to get 6 programs. Fix core. I don't care if the devs don't like it. Do it anyway, because at the end of the day what matters is what the customers want, and everyone here seems to agree that spending more than a hundred Karma just to get the 6 most useful programs is bullshit. TMs don't need every program, and I don't mind not being able to switch and swap; make the choices permanent if you must. What I do want are Wrapper, Lockdown, Signal Scrubber, Browse, Baby Monitor, and Fork and I shouldn't have to pay a minimum of 123 Karma for what a Decker can buy with 1160 Nuyen. Fix it.
• I want official clarification that Mind Over Machine gives you a free datajack as part of the benefits of a control rig. MMRI is crap, because what makes TMs crappy riggers is not the lack of a control rig, it's the fact that they can't slave drones to their living persona and therefore can't share programs with them. Take away the free datajack, and Mind Over Machine is completely worthless. Since MMRI doubles down on this, it already sucks and was a huge screw-up by the writers of Data Trails. Fix it.
• I actually don't mind the ridiculous Fading values as much as everyone else. What I do want though is something akin to a mage's reagents so I can increase the limit on a low-level Complex Form without wasting Edge.

That's actually it. Don't get me wrong, I agree with a lot of other points other folks have made in this thread, but I'm a realist and so I wanted to keep my list short and sweet, just focusing on the absolute must-haves as I see them. I understand that you don't want to go back to 4th edition where the balance of power is tilted in the opposite direction with Deckers being useless, and I think the above demands are both reasonable and feasible. Additional nice-to-haves would be paragons, streams, and small things like just clarifications on crucial TM strategies that some GMs don't want to play ball with like using Resonance Veil and Machine Sprites (but if I think a GM is an idiot I can always find another GM or run my own game, so that's less of a problem). Maybe add in additional types of Sprites if you're feeling ambitious, but deal with the more important stuff first.

[Marcus Gideon]

Here is my Technomancer wish list, in order.

• I shouldn't have to spend 6 submersions to get 6 programs. Fix core. I don't care if the devs don't like it. Do it anyway, because at the end of the day what matters is what the customers want, and everyone here seems to agree that spending more than a hundred Karma just to get the 6 most useful programs is bullshit. TMs don't need every program, and I don't mind not being able to switch and swap; make the choices permanent if you must. What I do want are Wrapper, Lockdown, Signal Scrubber, Browse, Baby Monitor, and Fork and I shouldn't have to pay a minimum of 123 Karma for what a Decker can buy with 1160 Nuyen. Fix it.
• I want official clarification that Mind Over Machine gives you a free datajack as part of the benefits of a control rig. MMRI is crap, because what makes TMs crappy riggers is not the lack of a control rig, it's the fact that they can't slave drones to their living persona and therefore can't share programs with them. Take away the free datajack, and Mind Over Machine is completely worthless. Since MMRI doubles down on this, it already sucks and was a huge screw-up by the writers of Data Trails. Fix it.
• I actually don't mind the ridiculous Fading values as much as everyone else. What I do want though is something akin to a mage's reagents so I can increase the limit on a low-level Complex Form without wasting Edge.

That's actually it. Don't get me wrong, I agree with a lot of other points other folks have made in this thread, but I'm a realist and so I wanted to keep my list short and sweet, just focusing on the absolute must-haves as I see them. I understand that you don't want to go back to 4th edition where the balance of power is tilted in the opposite direction with Deckers being useless, and I think the above demands are both reasonable and feasible. Additional nice-to-haves would be paragons, streams, and small things like just clarifications on crucial TM strategies that some GMs don't want to play ball with like using Resonance Veil and Machine Sprites (but if I think a GM is an idiot I can always find another GM or run my own game, so that's less of a problem). Maybe add in additional types of Sprites if you're feeling ambitious, but deal with the more important stuff first.

Wow... that was quite the post, lemme tell ya. =)

1) Technomancers aren't Deckers, and if you're trying to play them like one, you're pretty much doing it wrong. Which is why you have to go pretty far out of your way to mimic Decker programs, which is what you're doing after all. You aren't running Programs, you're learning how to manipulate Resonance in order to get the same effect. I agree that Submerging is a heavy price to pay for a single Program, and it would be nice if you got like 3 at a time, or maybe call them Complex Forms that require at least Grade 1 Submergence before you can learn them.

2) Mind Over Machine was never supposed to give you a Datajack. How in the hell would it? You're an ordinary metahuman, whose mind can talk to machines. Where in that does it sound like you'll end up growing a data cable out of your neck or something? That's why they reprinted MMRI in Data Trails, it was meant to replace MoM completely, and clarify for those of you who seem to think taking the Echo would make you sprout a USB cord out your ear. The point is that when you take the Echo, you can mimic the functions of a Control Rig in regards to interfacing with drones. That's it. No strings attached (literally).

3) I can agree that Reagents would be nice, especially since any genuine use of Puppeteer (probably the most popular and powerful Form) is going to give you brain damage. Although the Matrix treats Force / Level of your Forms differently, since you don't really have AOE or any of that, digital Reagents would just be a legal means of skirting the rules, instead of relying on Edge like every TM ends up having to do to stay useful and alive at the same time.

[Novocrane]

Where in that does it sound like you'll end up growing a data cable out of your neck or something?

Lets not get silly with this line again, eh? It's divisive and pointless.

"You get the benefit of a Rating 1 control rig" can be interpreted such that you can directly interface with an electronic device within 1m through the device's UDP. No biocables assumed.

[Dyndrilliac]

@Marcus Gideon: Call it being an entitled brat if you want, but when customers are expected to drop hundreds of dollars on an entire line of $40-$50 expansion books, the customers have a right to be entitled brats. If I'm going to buy these books, I expect them to have material I want. Whether or not the devs include it depends entirely upon how badly they want me to buy their books. The first rule of commerce is the customer is always right. The second rule is give the people what they want.

I think 3 simple demands are pretty reasonable compared to a 23 page thread of folks trying to do some ridiculous logical gymnastics trying to figure out a way to fix things that the customers already know how to fix but the devs don't want to do it that way because it would contradict core. But hey, that's my opinion. You're welcome to your own interpretation.

[Marcus Gideon]

Where in that does it sound like you'll end up growing a data cable out of your neck or something?

Lets not get silly with this line again, eh? It's divisive and pointless.

"You get the benefit of a Rating 1 control rig" can be interpreted such that you can directly interface with an electronic device within 1m through the device's UDP. No biocables assumed.

Or... it means you get to subtract 1 from the Threshold of Vehicle tests, and add 1 to the Limits, and add 1 to the dice checks. You know, all the "benefits" of a Rating 1 Control Rig.

[Novocrane]

Yes, that's another interpretation. I'm not going to discuss them here - only that pointedly misrepresenting the one you don't like does you no favours.

[Marcus Gideon]

@Marcus Gideon: Call it being an entitled brat if you want, but when customers are expected to drop hundreds of dollars on an entire line of $40-$50 expansion books, the customers have a right to be entitled brats. If I'm going to buy these books, I expect them to have material I want. Whether or not the devs include it depends entirely upon how badly they want me to buy their books. The first rule of commerce is the customer is always right. The second rule is give the people what they want.

I think 3 simple demands are pretty reasonable compared to a 23 page thread of folks trying to do some ridiculous logical gymnastics trying to figure out a way to fix things that the customers already know how to fix but the devs don't want to do it that way because it would contradict core. But hey, that's my opinion. You're welcome to your own interpretation.

Here's the dilemma...

You aren't spending hundreds of dollars to buy YOUR product. You're buying THEIR product. They may be nice enough to keep your suggestions in mind when they make revisions. But unless you make your own company and publish your own game, you aren't entitled to as much as you think.

[Herr Brackhaus]

I can't say I disagree with Dyndrilliac on the state of Technomancers, even if I don't agree with his methods of making demands.

No amount of supplements are going to "fix" Technomancers in SR5 in my opinion, which is why in my games players don't get the option to play one. *shrugs*

[tytalan]

I think one of the major problems is no one knows what Technomancers are and are suppose to do.  We keep hearing that they are not Deckers so what do they do in the Net?  We keep hearing that they are not Riggers so why can they control drones?  I guess the real questions is what and how are they suppose to help a group of Shadowrunners if they are not suppose to run Overwatch and Datasteals from the Net and are not supposed to drive vehicles or controls a group of drones what are they supposed to be good at straight out of the box.  I other words what role in the group is my brand new Technomancer suppose to fill according to the Developers?