[InvalidIntegrity]

SO yeah,  I'm newbie to shadowrun.  I was considering just using the technomancer premade class to get off the ground and learning the game mechanics.  Currently delved into the unwired supplement and sipping that data slowly...  Its a lot to digest.  But non the less amazing.   I'm really interested hear from anyone who has played an AI character?  I doubt I'll be playing an AI as my first character, but the character concept is pretty cool, I'll be tooling with the idea while play my first character.
Definitely want to be able to jump around different systems and hack through mainframes and such, use emplacements against our foes, or like vent the air out of rooms (at least write programs that kick in and do that!)

Also technomancer players please post you thoughts!   My GM has allowed 500bp limit (there is only 3 of us now that I have joined!)
So any suggestions?

[Kontact]

Head first - first time, eh?

The AI rules are kind of slap-dash and hard to work, and Technomancers... yeesh.  All the complexity of the Matrix and all the intricate balancing of the Magic system.

Mancers are specialized, but AIs are ultra-specialized.  500bp on either will net you a monster hungry for karma, but I really don't know if you should sink yourself into building a character who's so matrix-focused unless your GM knows the Matrix rules well.  There's a quote over on Dumpshock that's always struck me as truth.

If the GM doesn't understand the magic system it gets more powerful
If the GM doesn't understand the matrix system it gets less powerful.

If you're dead set on this course, as a Matrix advocate, I can help you out.
If you'd rather play a combat hacker or rigger so you're not bored and feeling useless for 80% of the run, I can help you out there as well.

[Mäx]

Technomancers make for kick ass riggers and combat hackers too.

[Lansdren]

They have their place in the matrix arena but you have to admit they are harder to run at first particually when new to the system

[Kontact]

Yeah, TMs make great riggers.  Unreal riggers once they can use a pair of robot arms and an emulated skillsoft to throw 18 dice on every test.

I just... rigging is complicated already without bringing machine sprites into it.  Not a 1st time character, imo.

[Dakka]

Kontact is right about the power of Techomancers being directly related to the GMs knowledge of the matrix rules (as well as how much he will let you get away with).  That being the case they are still pretty damn cool.  A 500 BPs character is a great time to use one of the more expensive builds such as a mage or technomancer also, so I would encourage you to try it.

With a 3 man team a combat technomancer is probably best, one who can hack when necessary but the primary mode of combat will still be DakkaDakkaDakka.  One problem you will have tho is technomancers tend to have only 1 IP in the real world.  Stock up on Cram/Jazz for when you need to fight and/or make that first shot count.

I could give you as much or as little build suggestions as you would like.  What I would recommend at a minimum is Agility 4+, Charisma 5, and Resonance 6.  Pick a type of firearm you want to use and trick one out with Arsenal and take Cracking, Electronics, and Compiling as well as your weapon skill plus maybe Influence.  Complex Forms to taste (with Smartlink being one of them) and you can shoot 'em up just like any other runner.

The nice thing about Technomancers vs Hackers is Hackers spend TONS of money to be good at what they do while Technomancers spend very little, they simply are.   

[Mäx]

With a 3 man team a combat technomancer is probably best, one who can hack when necessary but the primary mode of combat will still be DakkaDakkaDakka.  One problem you will have tho is technomancers tend to have only 1 IP in the real world.  Stock up on Cram/Jazz for when you need to fight and/or make that first shot count.

Thats only a problem for first few runs, as combat TM you just spend all of your karma to submerging and take biowire first and then acceleration*2 or 3 for 3 or 4 meat IP:s

[InvalidIntegrity]

Thank you all for replying!

@ All
An Update about our group.  It seems my game master is now wanting to just build new characters but starting at 400BP.   While keeping the other characters for just him and my other friend when the chance I'm not around for extended periods of time (such as deployments or vacations or [insert idea here]))   I'm going to try and convince him to make a compromise at 450 due to our small group and plus since he will be playing the precarious dual position as GM/Player (something I deal with when we play star dund, and it can sometimes be a hassle knowing what to expect but acting out unknowingly in character).

They both seem to be geared entirely to the just reality combat; Though before my inclusion they had a broad area of skills sets plus essential basic matrix uses (limited hacking abilities I guess?) to cover any possibility .
Since both of my supposed partners are more combat oriented, I'm more inclined to be matrix focused.
Also I'm still sifting through the rules so please mark any references that I could jump too!

Now they have played an encounter, just a simple contract mission I guess.   So we are all very new to the game, and all generally learning matrix use (well the GM and I are, not sure about my other friend).   I'm loving how much was actually put into the background of the matrix, and what seems to me a depth of data to wade through!!!  Its pretty cool.

@ Kontact

If the GM doesn't understand the magic system it gets more powerful
If the GM doesn't understand the matrix system it gets less powerful.

If you're dead set on this course, as a Matrix advocate, I can help you out.
If you'd rather play a combat hacker or rigger so you're not bored and feeling useless for 80% of the run, I can help you out there as well.

Great quote by the way!
If you don't my mind I would enjoy reading both sets of advice.
Well as you may see, My GM and I both have limited knowledge nor any actual experience with the matrix rules.   Perhaps a few sample ideas of how to weave easy matrix based challenges into encounters, from your own experiences?   This way we both will gain ample understanding of the intricacies of the matrix.
Of course everyone is free to respond too with their own ideas!

@ Dakka
Please If you don't mind, I would like to see some example builds at 500BP.
Also since my GM may be changing over to 400BP perhaps a few builds in that category as well.  
Though I'm inclined toward being more matrix focused, other balanced builds are welcomed.

Again thank you all for your assistance!

EDIT:  I just realized how simple in story terms it would be to keep my friends current characters, just do other contracts when I'm not around,  so yeah I'll bring that up with my GM.   This sudden revelation begs another question; Our characters would be advancing at different rates, with shadow run, are solo character adventures difficult to run?  I guess that question is a bit situationally based, but has anyone have gone through something like this?   Maybe the GM forum might procure other insights?

[Dakka]

First character example.
400 BP "Cyberadept" (Base book Technomancer)
Human (0 BPs)

Attributes (200 BPs)
Body - 3
Agility - 2
Reaction - 2
Strength - 1 (or 2 if you prefer)
Charisma 5
Logic 5
Intuition 5 (or 4 for Strength 2)
Willpower 5

Special Attributes (60 BPs)
Resonace 5
Edge 3

Skills (132 BPs)
Software 6
Data Search 4
Computer 4
Cracking (group) 4
Compiling 4
Registering 4
Perception 1

Knowledge Skills (30 free ranks)
Primary Language (Native)
Secondary Language 4
Corporate Security 4
Matrix Security Procedures 4
Whatever else interests you 18 ranks

Positive Qualities (5 BPs)
Techomancer - 5

Negative Qualities (-35 BPs)
Whatever you feel like taking, Sensetive System is popular, as is Incompetent (Physical skill like Climbing), and Allergy or Stimulant Addictions

Complex Forms (30 BPs)
Analyze 5
Exploit 5
Stealth 5
Armor 3
Track 3
Attack 3
Edit 3
Command 1
Decrypt 1
Defuse 1

Sprites: Courier, Crack, Data, Fault, Machine

Contacts (5 BPs)
Fixer L2 C3

Gear (3 BPs, 15,000)
Fake SIN R4 (4,000)
Armor Vest (600)
Imaging Goggles R6 (300)
-Low Light (100)
-Flare Compensation (50)
-Vision Enhancement R3 (300)
-Vision Magnification (100)
Steel Lynx combat drone (5,000)
AK-97 (mounted) (500)
Ammo (Regular, 500 rounds) (1000)
Fake License R4 (Lynx) (400)
Fake Licence R4 (AK-97) (400)
Low Lifestyle (1 Month) (2000)

Starting Nuyen: 3D6+2 x50
BP check: 200+60+132+5+5+30+3-35 = 400

This is your base book Techomancer from the core rules, he has Analyze, Exploit, and Stealth at high levels since those tend to be the bread and butter of matrix runs, and everything else he threads with his high Software skill.  You can use registered sprites to sustain your threading and also for the Assist Operation task to add its rating to a Complex Form for important things that take little time (like defusing a Data Bomb).  With ZERO combat skill this guy is usually in a van somewhere running matrix ops and nowhere near the front line, instead sending the Lynx drone to fight, with the occasional Machine sprite assist when combat is unavoidable.  You could tweak the skills a bit, or change the Complex Forms around to taste pretty easily.

[Kontact]

Well, since threading is a non-action, you can thread any number of times whenever you like.  Because of that, having a high software skill isn't really necessary.  You thread, it's not to max, then thread some more.   That's the first rule of cheesing a technomancer. ;P


Honestly, for a character that will be there, and then not be there, an AI is a good call.  As an AI, you could just disappear and, since you're not corporeal, it makes fair sense.

[Dakka]

We frown on threading multiple times on the same CF in our group.  Is it even possible?  Does each threading take its own sustain action?  Would the -2 from the first threading action apply as a penalty to the second threading action?  Either way a high software skill never hurts.

[Bradd]

It's a free action to drop a sustained spell; is it the same for threading? If so, you'd be accumulating sustaining penalties until you dropped them. If not, it would be reasonable for a GM to apply the usual -2 penalty for retrying a failed task if you're just repeating the same thing until you succeed.

Also, there's fading.

EDIT: Oh, duh. I misunderstood what you were saying. (CF = complex form, not combat turn.) You would end up with multiple sustain penalties for sure, and while they wouldn't apply to use of the CF itself, it would affect everything else, including the threading.