Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => General Discussion => Topic started by: bobo69 on <12-02-11/1301:01>
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Well just finished reading the latest Shadowrun Adventure: Columbia Subterfuge...
Looks like the UN and Corporate Court just gave economic sanctions and embargoes on Aztlan. The 5 permanent security members of the UN(Amazonia, France, UK, Japan and UCAS) along with most of the non permanent members voted for the sanctions. Only Aztlan voted against(of course) & Tir Tannagire and Athabaskan council abstained.
So looks like Horizon got paid like 350 million new yen to do a war crimes job on Aztlan and Aztechnology.
I'm surprised the council abstained the vote. The Coucil housed eco terrorists so they would be happy going up against Aztechnology(or maybe these ecos are funded by Aztechnology). As for Tir, well they don't like Dragons.
So looks like Amazonia is on the ropes in the war and the front lines are being pushed into Amazonian territory. And Amazonia has gotten desperate that they will pay Horizon this much amount. Anyways looks like Horizon just got a big boost.
Also with tensions on the rise on the Aztlan and CAS borders. Looks like you may have a two front war between Aztlan vs. CAS/Amazonia.
So the 5 big powers and the mega corps are about to neuter Aztlan/Aztechnology whom they see getting to be dangerously powerful and can't be allowed to win the war. Also probably you have the Great Dragons behind the resolution as well.
Maybe you might get a UN/Corporate court military intervention too against Aztlan/Aztechnology and of course the corp will get desperate and unleash some secret weapons.
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DAMMIT! How did I not see this!!
DriveThruRPG (http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product_info.php?products_id=97274&filters=0_0_0_0_0&manufacturers_id=2216)
BattleCorps.com (http://www.battlecorps.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=28_187_86&products_id=2894)
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Time to buy Horizon stocks. And sell Aztechnology.
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What? Did anyone really think that the Corporate Court would let Aztlan, who has never played well by even Corporate rules, to get really slagging big and bad again. Aztlan already took one on the chops for getting too big for it's britches from the rest of the CC. This is not surpising at all in other than it took this long
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Well the Corporates needed an excuse and THIS IS IT.
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too bad the PCC is tied up with swallowing what's left of Ute and SoCal.....but this means Azltan won't be in much of a position to do anything if PCC decided to clean house in San Deigo. And The Carb states are going to be chomping at the bit to give Aztlan a kick in the nethers for beinga general pain. UCAS and the rest of Northam won't be crying either
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So what now for Aztlan/Aztechnology....probably like any sensible corporation, it will probably cut its losses and withdraw and use its PR to spin things around unless of course its stupid and suicidal which its probably not. Unless of course it stole the omega codes of the Corporate court(as detailed n Conspiracy Theories).
Anyways , the Aztecs will probably withdraw since it is not stupid enough to fight everyone.
However this will have grave repercussions as investor confidence will be shaken badly because of the perceived Aztech defeat. Though the Azzies will spin this as a temporary police action in securing their borders.
The Corps benefit by having a neutered Aztechnology which is more compliant with teh Corporate court.
Amazonia will also hurt as their perceived magical and military might will be undermined because of this. Amazonia will probably professionalize its army.
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The big question is, if AZT and Aztlan doesn't pull back... Who fills the power void when they collapse?
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And the CAS too will be playing all this for all its worth.
So too will the Corps rivals especially Ares, Horizon, Saeder Krupp.
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Who will take over if and when Aztechnology ever collapses....
Probably Monobe...they are the AA corp who is poised in becoming a AAA. Fo SO LONG.
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We also need to remmeber that the big A isn't as unified as people would like to think. The Blood Preists of The Smoking Mirror only have so much control and I bet a LOT of people would like to play Frag the Zampolit if the worm turns. Badboy Jaguar Warriors or not. You get a bunch of Grunts that are whizzed off, especially if they lost a friend or relative to the Mirror's need for sacrifices and you have a very unstable situation.
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Actually, isn't there rumors of a Feathered Dragon on the board of AZT? Might be why the Tir abstained. Things are already poised too close to a dragon civil war as is.
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Actually the elves are opposed to the Dragons(immortal elves). yes there is a feathered serpect on the board of the AZT but I don't think its a great dragon.
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Yeah, but I don't think it's a great if memory serves. And Given Hestaby, Lofwyr, and the three wizwryms in Amazonia might come to a agreement to kick the stuffing out of Aztlan, I'm not thinking that's going to happen. He'll. They might get GhostWalker signed up to give help, as he'd do it for a giggle
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The Elves aren't in charge of the Tir no more. It's a democracy of sorts with Hestaby and an Ork, IIRC.
But who pulls that Feathered Dragon's strings? Another Great most likely. By decrying the Amazonian-Supporting (And completely nutbar) Dragon in the UN, but abstaining, Hestaby is showing support for AZT and Aztlan...
Ghostwalker, yeah, he'd be the 800 ton gorilla of Dragons if he decided to leave Denver.
Things are getting confusing, and my head hurts just regaining consciousness every morning.
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Don't forget Sirrurg...this guy rivals with Ghostwalker for a chance to crap all over AZT.
Also looks lke the Toxics are on the side of the AZT. There are signs that the Dragon Pobre has actually become a Toxic.
As for those magical guys who control AZT, yeah while they are the controlling faction of AZT, other factions are also fighting them...and the magical guys have an apocalyptic agenda.
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Here'sa fun thought, Ghostwalker, Sirrug. and Lofwyr all on the same page about AZT and Aztlan and what needs to be done.
Now throw in the backing on the Catholic Chruches and you get a really 8-Ball Marriage of Conivance
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Just watch out, those Apocalypse Fellows might find Dunkie doing the "YOU SHALL NOT PASS!" trick at the bridge, and off him for good...
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As in real world politics...they have to cut through the double talk and see what the real goal of the games played in accordance to their interetss and goals.
yeah, Tir is controlled by Hestaby now, and Hestaby is currently rivallng Sirrurg and probably his allies(namely the Amazonia feathered great dragon, Lofwyr, heck even Lung and Ghostwalker.
So AZT maybe is just a pawn between the real fight between the two dragon sides. The dragons who want less dragon manipulation on the metas(Hestaby, Masaru, Rhonabwy) vs. those who want to control the destiny of the metas(Sirrurg, Lofwyr, Lung, Ghostwalker, and the feathered serpent who rules Amazonia). You could say the radicals vs. the traditionalists.
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kinda hard since he used thier magic to Xantos Gambit himself into a higher plane. and they will be kinda busy with everyone wanting a piece. unless of course, the Great Hunter Is Awake.....
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As in real world politics...they have to cut through the double talk and see what the real goal of the games played in accordance to their interetss and goals.
yeah, Tir is controlled by Hestaby now, and Hestaby is currently rivallng Sirrurg and probably his allies(namely the Amazonia feathered great dragon, Lofwyr, heck even Lung and Ghostwalker.
So AZT maybe is just a pawn between the real fight between the two dragon sides. The dragons who want less dragon manipulation on the metas(Hestaby, Masaru, Rhonabwy) vs. those who want to control the destiny of the metas(Sirrurg, Lofwyr, Lung, Ghostwalker, and the feathered serpent who rules Amazonia). You could say the radicals vs. the traditionalists.
hmm...point
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Jewels,
Not only that, you also got UCAS, CAS, the Carrebean league coming into the act too on the Anti Azzie side not to mention Horizon and ARES who both have an axe to grind with aztechnology.
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we might want to makea short list of who Doesn't hate AZT on the North Am Continent....
Souix nation....
erm... help me on this one?
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Azzie enemy list:
The rest of the NAN(except for the council and the Tir)
UCAS
CAS
Amazonia
Carrabean League
Horizon
Saeder Krupp
Sirrurg
Ares
Universal Omnitech
Ghostwalker
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Ares is selling to both sides and making a mint. War is good for them.
Bet they're buying Fabrique Nationale d'Herstal right now due to UN Troops using their weapons. ;D
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Thot AZT didn't use Ares arms and did homebuilt
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Thot AZT didn't use Ares arms and did homebuilt
Deniability with Ares, everyone uses them.
Also, Ares makes ammunition. Lots of ammunition. And when you're fighting in a jungle, against magicians, you're burning through a HELL of a lot of ammo. Possibly more than AZT can produce. Certainly more than they can supply as their supply train is hit by Guerrilla Groups. Ares Delivers, however, and is sort of neutral. For an additional fee, of course.
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and how long will it take before they come up witha nanofac for the old M-4 assault file to counterbalance those with AK-97 Nanofaccing
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Actually Aztechnology has a significant arms industries which rivals Ares, Saeder Krupp, & Renraku...
The AZT manufactures its own tanks, aircraft and naval warships. It owns Hawker Siddley, Dassault, Embraer, marine tech, Esprit, etc. And yeah while the AZT are hiring mercs, its not as big as the Amazonians. The AZT has a powerful in house military already. However it will still hire mercs for the right price.
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expect ammo to get expensive as boths sides start stockpiling.
Houston will get interesting really quickly. And the Sons of the Alamo will probably get some backing to cause damage somwhere
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won't be surprised him Sirrurg is backing the alamo, the AZT is backing those Pro Indian guerillas in the CAS.
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and how long will it take before they come up witha nanofac for the old M-4 assault file to counterbalance those with AK-97 Nanofaccing
You'd have to find people that want M-4s still, while the AK-97 is still in production (for now) and still selling quite well.
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Runner BB still has them being produced. it has the advantage ofa frame that's still around, is cheap, and can be adapted
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Really, anyone who didn't see this coming had their heads buried in sand. The Aztechnology/Aztlan thing has pissed off the rest of the Big 10 for years. No one cried when Ghostwalker kicked the Big A out of Denver, or the PCC did the same to them in LA.
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And the CAS would like part of Tejas back....
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They want the Alamo and Santa Anna's Leg. ;D
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Really, anyone who didn't see this coming had their heads buried in sand.
Since the game's beginning, even. Aztlan is Aztechnology; Aztechnology wants to be top-notch, the best, the most powerful, with nobody in 2nd through 50th place. The problem with ruining them in every other part of the universe besides Central America -- which meant you, yes you, every time you visited Stuffer Shack and its 79% Aztechnology-produced items -- was the fact that they had the PR machine that really was second to none. Every time news broke about an atrocity, two days or a week later AZT would release some cute or fantastic little PR gig that completely neutered all the bad stuff you thought.
Now they put Horizon on the playing field, and suddenly AZT's most useful tool gets taken off the board. Which means Aztechnology has to use what other tools they have -- and the one they have that nobody else does is the nation-state of Aztlan. Getting access to the treasures of the Amazon will revitalize their chemical and drug enterprises, and dealing finally with the ever-problematic border war with Amazonia. Yucatan's been finalized, so ...
But of course, they've taken a page from both the Yucatan rebels and do their best to use the forces of nature against the opposition. And the scale at which they're doing it -- the scale at which they're showing the world can now wage bionatural war -- has everyone spooked.
So of course they're going to give them a friendly warning.
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The problem, as always, will be PR.
It would be very easy for the Azzies to spin this to make them look like the underdog being bullied for one of a dozen different reasons.
Shadowrun: Where you can sacrifice babies, but the public will still love you.
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See my note re: Horizon, Bull. Previously true, but Horizon's PR machine trumps Aztechnology's PR machine nowadays.
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See my note re: Horizon, Bull. Previously true, but Horizon's PR machine trumps Aztechnology's PR machine nowadays.
Maybe yes, maybe no. Horizon specializes in PR, but AZT has been at the job for a long, long time. And it certainly isn't afraid to get heavy and hard with news agencies, covertly of course, that don't toe it's line.
Horizon has new practices and techniques that AZT hasn't and certainly has AR-Style PR above everyone else, but AZT has experience with 'Trid, Simsense, and even good ol' Print (Matrix Text, actually) and a lot of connections already in hand worldwide.
It'll be like the old Heavyweight Champion fighting the Rising Star New Kid, see if old age and treachery still trumps youth and enthusiasm. Either way, lumps are going to be had.
Also remember that AZT produces FOOD. Yes, Horizon has a bit of investment in there, but it's one of AZT's major sources of income. Start having to increase the cost of food because of the "Illegal and illogical embargo put into place by the UN/CC", and people might start shifting opinions all by themselves. Of course, it might also be a good time for other companies to take a bit of a loss and try and wait out AZT's downfall to get at farmland at a cheap price.
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This is one of the times that I really, really wish that the Corporate Guide had included numbers the way the previous two versions did. It becomes so much easier to say 'well, Horizon's PR machine is gonna trump Aztechnology's' when you see that HOZ has a 12 and AZT has a 10. (Everyone else has an 8 or less. ;) )
Also, just because Horizon has new techniques doesn't mean that they ignore the old ones. Or that AZT is going to be able to kick around news agencies -- because, see, most of them are already owned by other megacorporations, and all of them are going to be tooting the Horizon-designed horn. I'd actually look for an increase against Aztech media outlets in the very near future due to this.
Regarding the whole 'food' issue, well -- yes, Aztech is a major producer of Consumer Goods, which includes food. Aztechnology is not the only producer, and corporate and national memory goes a long way. Aztech runs the risk, if they nudge the price of their food products too high, of getting the various food-producing companies outside Aztlan borders nationalized. Corporations lobby nations with the argument of 'your citizens are starving, they're doing this deliberately, THEY did it to YOUR companies, just do it to the ones of theirs that'll feed your people' and suddenly Aztech's Consumer Goods rating goes from an 8 to a 2. Then the corps buy the companies off the nations at pennies on the dollar.
Remember that you aren't talking Aztechnology vs. Horizon here, CanRay. You're talking Aztechnology vs EVERYONE, with Horizon being the front man (but not the only man) on this one particular thing, i.e. selling how bad Aztechnology is to the Man On The Street. Ref. Ensenada Strike at what happens when all the other kids on the playground get seriously pissed off at the one bully and decide they're not gonna take it any more.
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Wyrm's right. The only way Aztechnology has survived is that they've only once pissed off everyone at the same time. They've done them all individually, of course, but the last time the Court dropped the hammer on AZT, they learned their lesson, for a while.
And beyond the Big 10, ALL the Great Dragons would love to take a chunk out of Aztlan, for killing one of their own (oh, and the whole blood magic thing). And the PCC and CAS both wouldn't mind kicking the Azzies when they're down, either.
Worst case scenario for Aztech? Sirrurg, Ghostwalker, the Corporate Court, PCC, and CAS all team up to take the corporation and country apart, piece by piece.
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Ares is getting kicked around, too.
Don't ever underestimate Aztechnology.
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popcorn anyone?
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Lots of yellow grease on mine, please....
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Keep in mind something big about Horizon...
the Consensus.
What the Consensus is and how it works still isn't really known (And even as a freelancer, I haven't been following any of the Horizon plot stuff, so this is all purely speculation on my part). But we can infer a few things from the name.
Now, here's the thing... Horizons in it for news, and it can spin things a lot of ways... But as pointed out, so can the Azzies. And the Azzies have been around a long, long time. they have a lot of brand loyalty that goes with it.
Now, the other thing we know about news is that the publics attention span is fickle and fleeting. Horizon can only spin negative PR for so long before something else will catch everyone's attention. All AZT has to do is make sure it's something big, something flashy, and something that effects someone else... And poof. the public forgets all about Aztechnology and starts looking at the celeb who dropped her baby or the MCT Exec who got caught with his hand in the cookie jar, or that Ares bug lab that Geraldo, Jr just did an expose on....
Plus, at the end of the day, really... The general populace just doesn't care. They have the attention span of 3-day old Puppy who has to pee. So long as the average wageslave has food, a roof, and something on the Trid, Aztechnology could sacrifice kittens to Cthulhu for all he cares.
Bull
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But yes, Wyrm does have a good point in taht it's not just Horizon. It is "everyone". But honestly, a few trade concessions, a few favors promised, and half of "everyone" is going to evaporate, and it won't take much to get most of the rest to back off.
This is Shadowrun. It's all about leverage. Aztechnology just needs to find a little bit.
(And honestly, I saw the phrase "UN Sanctions" and laughed my ass off. the UN is barely worth a damn today. With the decreased power of the individual nations in Shadowrun, the UN is just a Safety Blanket for countries and what little bit of the population still pays attention to Continental Politics. It exists to make people feel warm and snug, but it's still a blanket. It won't stop bullets, and it's flammable.
:)
Bull
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popcorn anyone?
Only if it's Jiffy-Pop. ;D
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I really like the recent Horizon Advs. I'm trying to make a complete time-table for 73'. If there's anyone who wants to help me just PM, till now I was mostly focused on the "Dragon Civil War" (Hestabbie vs Loffie and related friends).
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Bull forgets to mention that the UN does have some neat stuff. However, while the UN is more worthless than today and totally controlled by the corps (ol' Iker [the current Sec-Gen] is the tool of one mega in particular), its clandestine anti-mega faction has a Hell of a sponsor that ... Well.
Lots of yellow grease on mine, please....
Eww. Eww eww eww.
The last movie I saw in a theater was The Dark Knight, and I have no fondness for that stuff. I make popcorn. I use butter. It keeps the popcorn white-ish. Tastes better, too.
/literally has nothing else to say until he meets with the author later.
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Looks like my Old Time Runner now military related Fixer is going to be very busy.
He hates AZT on general principles because of Aztlaner (aztechs in his mind) religion (which has lost him more than one friend).
Ruining the Smoking Mirrors day would just give him also sorts a warm fuzzies inside
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I for one, can't think of any reason AZT would not have seen this coming. They're a lot of things, but not stupid, otherwise they'd never have gotten as powerful as they are. They knew lots of the Greats don't like 'em, knew CAS and some other countries won't mind them losing some land and power, knew the others on the CC just needed an excuse...
So instead of asking if this is the end-game for AZT (I'm certain it isn't, they're too big and have plenty of exits and time before this escalates into something that might threaten them), the real question that should be asked is:
What do they hope to gain from this to make it all worth it?
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This is true, but we must not forget institutional arrogance and the sometimes lamentable ability for people to push things too far, thinking nothing will happen.
Look at our own current political situation for examples on all sides.
Aztechnology and Aztlan need a hard kick in the teeth, followed by a motorcycle chain whipping/curbstomping like a narc at a biker rally. would live things up
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Or look at AZT in '44.
I agree, though, that Aztech as a corporation won't die off completely. If, however, they are stripped of all assets and subsidiaries outside of Aztlan, however, and those goodies get distributed around the other members of the CC, then suddenly Aztechnology loses that cushy AAA rating, and the Court gets to pick someone else to fill their shoes. Someone without the PR clout that Horizon has, obviously, and without the structural (and infestation) problems that Ares has. Plus, the Greats would likely all sign off on such a deal as well (not just for AZT's threats of developing anti-dragon weapons), and it may get Sirrurg to slip back into the shadows for a while, instead of causing even more trouble.
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As 'heir' to ORO, Aztechnology cannot, by the terms of the Corporate Court charter, ever loose its AAA rating.
Unless the charter is amended, and that opens up a whole new can of worms. You thought the Awakening, Dunkelzahn's death and Crash 2.0 were game-changers...
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Is that actually written somewhere, or is just what everyone assumes? I mean has anyone actually read the CC charter?
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I don't think so... It's probably very long.
I read the Terms of Service for MicroSoft Windows 98, 2000, and XP. I then had to make a SAN check.
The next question is, has anyone read the parts of the Aztlan Constitution that were redacted for security purposes?
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My question is: Isn't this the kind of sanction that typically ends in a THOR shot called down from heaven with extreme prejudice?
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No. Thor shots wouldn't be used in populated areas unless there was a DAMN good reason. 1) You lose a lot of customers. 2) There's significant PR fallout from wiping a city off the map. 3) You lose a lot of customers.
Now if certain people happened to find themselves the target of runners/spec ops teams doing wetwork, however...
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My question is: Isn't this the kind of sanction that typically ends in a THOR shot called down from heaven with extreme prejudice?
It CAN, yes. The same way the Cuban Missile Crisis could have ended in a nuclear exchange. It's the start of the process...
Depending on how things turn around or move, as well as politics both in the UN and CC (No, I'm not joking), it could end in a THOR shot, or it could end with concessions to either party, or it could end with strong economic sanctions. Or, quite possibly, AZT and Aztlan might pull a rabbit out of their hat and nothing might happen at all.
It'd have to be one hell of a "buried body", but it could happen.
"I'm looking for Deep Throat." "Oh, I'm Rim Job. Deep Throat is two floors down." "Ah, sorry. Hope your meet goes well!"
EDIT: You can, however, THOR Shot Military Bases, Navy Yards with Ships Docked, and Infrastructure (Factories) that you've warned people to evacuate.
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No. Thor shots wouldn't be used in populated areas unless there was a DAMN good reason. 1) You lose a lot of customers. 2) There's significant PR fallout from wiping a city off the map. 3) You lose a lot of customers.
Ah, it's South America, who'd miss it? (I kid, I kid)
It'd have to be one hell of a "buried body", but it could happen.
"We found Jimmy Hoffa's body. Turns out he had some chemicals in him that, when they absorbed into the earth and sank to the Earth's core, reignited the mana levels and caused the Awakening, the UGE, Goblinization, and even the Emergence. Our top medical team is busily researching a cure based on a chemical composition we found beneath our main sacrifi- er, our primary temple of worship. We're willing to release it based that you don't THOR us off the face of the planet."
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I don't believe the CC will be quick to use things like that.
keep in mind that, in sharp contrast to a lot of megacorps now, most AAA's seem to have a long-term plan that's often more important than things that could lead to a short-term gain but long-term loss.
The whole thing with Tempo is a good example. A lot of sh*t could have been avoided if they had just allowed legislation to be passed against such types of drugs. The main reason Tempo got so big so fast was because laws on Bio-Engineered Awakened Drugs simply don't exist. And while they understood that forming new laws that prohibited BAD's in the same way they prohibit hard drugs could and would allow law enforcement to come down hard on Tempo-dealers and everyone involved, the AAA's reasoned that maybe, in a couple of years, they might come up with their own new BAD and want to exploit that same lack of legislation. So instead they lobbied against and blocked all attempts to pass laws against BAD's, until eventually Tempo-dealers could only get busted for selling items that hadn't been cleared by the Food Safety Department instead of facing actual drug-dealing charges.
Thor or any other kind of direct intervention should be handled the same way. Each and every one of them might be the next one that steps out of line and does something most of the others doesn't like. If they now create the precedent that such slap on the wrist immediately and automatically translates into a THOR shot on your HQ, main production facilities or military bases...
No, don't think they're quite there yet. They, like the Aztecs, have a lot of other options available that cause a lot less collateral damage. Many of those options, in contrast to THOR shots or other military actions, might even lead to profit instead of costing loads of cash. Easiest way to compete with the Stuffer Shack is creating embargo's that prevent them from getting stock or selling anything, then planting your own stores right next to them.
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Trade Embargoes are likely to be the first "Shot" in this war. Especially if they make it against Aztechnology as well as Aztlan. Just bought a new box of cigars from the Aztechnology mall? Sorry Citizen, you're guilty of smuggling illicit goods from an embargoed country. Please come with us to the station.
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As 'heir' to ORO, Aztechnology cannot, by the terms of the Corporate Court charter, ever loose its AAA rating.
It was still ORO when the Inter Corporate Council was established in 2012, but Aztechnology when it became the Corporate Court in 2023. It also worth noting that Aztechnology is ORO renamed (as opposed to Renraku, Neonet and Saeder-Krupp, who only controls a founding corporation, respectively Keruba, JRJ and BMW).
Is that actually written somewhere, or is just what everyone assumes? I mean has anyone actually read the CC charter?
Corporate Download, page 21
A bedrock clause states that the original Big Seven founders can never lose their last seat on the Court and thus can't lose their AAA ratings). Theoretically, however, corps such as Yamatetsu, Cross and Wuxing can lose their justices and be removed from the court. You can sure as drek bet hat rule is on everyone's mind whenever the justices from non-founding corps come up for election.
Corporate Guide, page 25
According to Corporate Court bylaws, the original Corporate Court members retain at least one seat for each of them, from now into eternity - or until such time that the bylaws can be revised or amended.
The wording ("bedrock clause," "bylaws") suggest this is more than guess.
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Well, there are bylaws and there are bylaws. For instance, in the US Senate, a single senator can put an indefinite hold on all legislation for any reason he feels like. And the idea that you need 2/3 majority in the Senate isn't written down anywhere, either, as far as I know. It just is.
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Tradition is harder to break than laws.
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Mirikon, please -- don't be a twit, trying to ask if anyone's read the charter (a fictional document that doesn't exist in toto), or getting rules-lawyerly. The seven of them wrote it specifically so that they themselves cannot be disenfranchised. Period. That's been in the canon since before the first Corporate Guide; I'm not completely certain, but it might actually be in the first printing of the first edition. So stop trying to figure it out.
And the voting majority one requires in the House, Senate, etc. varies from item to item. And that stuff is written down. The US wasn't the first parliamentary government, but it was the first fully republican one, as compared to the constitutional monarchy in England. The founders didn't want their government to be the same as their just-rebelled-from parent country, so they figured something else out -- and figured out as many of the basic rules as they could.
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I hope it's never published... The Windows XP Terms of Service were horrible enough.
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The "bedrock clause" still leaves one opening - Aztechnology could be dismantled, and OZO's seat on the Corporate Court could be sold to an up and coming AA corp. That way, the rule about founding corps staying on the board remains inviolate, but Aztech is gone for all intents and purposes.
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Oh great, as if Fuchi's breakup wasn't bad enough!
So, we're going to have two Megas that change their name more often than their CEO changes his silk boxers?
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Excellent. The corp's seat stays with the corp, but the name, assets, executives, and all the rest change. ;)
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Apparently Nath wasn't clear enough.
Aztechnology is ORO. The only way you'll get Aztechnology/ORO off the corporate court is to obliterate it completely. If it's reduced to two guys and a computer, one of them is going to be a Corporate Court justice, and the other guys is gonna be President and CEO.
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Yes, but we are talking about dismantling the vast majority of Aztech, and then perhaps a forced merger with a AA, with the new company keeping the AA's name, board, president, CEO, and so on. So, technically, the company would still exist, as Monobe-Aztecha, or something like that, and later being shortened to just Monobe. You just have to shuffle the cards correctly, and it all works, and stays within the letter, if not the intent, of the charter.
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Good luck, Mr. Danchekker.
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Personally, after the Horizon-Aztechnology throwdown, I'd like to see the Azzies pushed into a supporting role for a while. They've been teh Big Bad for years, and a whipping boy that everybody love sto hate, but ... they've been taking hit after hit and are risking Worf Syndrome. It's about time to have them sit back and recouperate for an arc or two, let somebody else carry water for a while while they focus on actual financial profit.
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Ah, Good old Danchummer. the cause of so many headaches.
And as for the Azzies taking a fall, I really don't think people are going to be too horrible broken up about it. The CAS would like to grab some land back. The PCC might be annoyed, but taking back San Diego might make it worth it to them.
and I'm sure Amazonia is going to cry a river over it.
And let's not forget the potential for a full blown AZT-Aztlan Civil war
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The PCC might be annoyed, but taking back San Diego might make it worth it to them.
Especially since it would give them another port on the Pacific, which they wouldn't need to bother with using Horizon to access.
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The PCC might be annoyed, but taking back San Diego might make it worth it to them.
Especially since it would give them another port on the Pacific, which they wouldn't need to bother with using Horizon to access.
It would also give them ComiCon. A great PR thing for a world full of Matrix Junkies. ;D
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The PCC might be annoyed, but taking back San Diego might make it worth it to them.
Especially since it would give them another port on the Pacific, which they wouldn't need to bother with using Horizon to access.
It would also give them ComiCon. A great PR thing for a world full of Matrix Junkies. ;D
But the CAS still has Dragon*Con, so is clearly far superior.
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Heh... I can now picture Mr. Johnsons from each of the 'Cons hiring runners to extract artists/developers/authors for their respective Cons.
Just remember, though, GenCon's probably got the largest number of Runners working pro bono. ;)
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No, they're working for room and swag. :)
As for the rest? Heh.
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No, they're working for room and swag. :)
As for the rest? Heh.
Room, not so much. Swag? Oh most definitely :D
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Yes, but we are talking about dismantling the vast majority of Aztech, and then perhaps a forced merger with a AA, with the new company keeping the AA's name, board, president, CEO, and so on. So, technically, the company would still exist, as Monobe-Aztecha, or something like that, and later being shortened to just Monobe. You just have to shuffle the cards correctly, and it all works, and stays within the letter, if not the intent, of the charter.
It doesn't work like that. Corporate merger is not a chemical process. Each corporation is and remain a distinct legal person. To follow your examples, there are three ways it could be done:
- Aztechnology takes over Monobe, and then rename itself MA Corporation. It's just a change of name, and ORO/Aztechnology/MA is still entitled to AAA rating.
- Monobe takes over Aztechnology, and then rename itself MA Corporation. As the owner of ORO/Aztechnology, MA would have AAA rating, just like Saeder-Krupp as the owner of BMW, Renraku as the owner of Keruba and Neonet as the owner of JRJ International.
- A corporate lawyer charters MA Corporation, who launches a tender offer on both Aztechnology and Monobe. Same result as above: as the owner of ORO/Aztechnology, MA would have AAA rating.
For Aztechnology right to seat on the Corporate Court to cease, you need Aztechnology to cease to exist. Aztechnology could be reduced to a line in Aztlan Chamber of Commerce databases, it would still have that right.
Dissolving a corporation require the shareholders agreement (and, in some case, the local revenue service agreement as well). Another way to do so would be to make Aztechnology a subsidiary of a corporation who already have AAA rating. But this would also require a majority of shareholder to agree to sell.
You can destroy every of Aztechnology assets. You can kill the shareholders. They would have heirs. You can kill all their bloodlines. Their state or residence would inherit the shares. And the fact remains: they have a AAA seat to sell, and it worth a lot.
There are two words for what you want to do. Confiscation. Spoliation. Should the Corporate Court go that way, it's a game over. The system would collapse. Every corporation in the world, including the AAA, would fear being the next in line and would act preemptively. Megacorporations would drop AA rating to leave the court jurisdiction and return to the relative safety of national jurisdictions who respect private property. Shareholders would sell their stake in corporations who remain with the court, killing their market value and the nuyen with it.
Private property is sacred. Corporations cannot exist without it. That's why Omega Order call for assets destruction, not theft.
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When gaming convention boards start being Mr. Johnsons... Oh, now that's nasty!
Now my group is going to DETEST ever going back to LA if I ever run again! ;D
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When gaming convention boards start being Mr. Johnsons... Oh, now that's nasty!
Now my group is going to DETEST ever going back to LA if I ever run again! ;D
Heaven help us. ;)
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Well if you look at Cross tech and Fuchi who all used to be AAA corps. They were all broken up and absorbed by other companies in the aftermath of the crash.
As for the Azzie's AAA rivals...I think the end run is that they want to collapse the Azzies and absorb the Aztech company subsidieries. This is good since it removes a dangerous rival and they profit too. The megas are buddy buddy but they stab each other in the back to get a percentage.
Its also a win to weaken Aztechnology. A weaker rival is good for their business too but a weakened rival can also be used as a stalking horse by other Corps against other corps.
Also in the war with Amazonia.. I believe that the Corporate court will use this to their advatage. Offer advantages to Amazonia and in this scenario a weakened Aztechnology will serve as a scare to Amazonia. The Corporate court can enter Amazonia under the pretext of protecting the state by upgrading and professionalizing its army etc.
Amazonia's relatively poor performance in the war has shown that its army is preety disorganized and ad hoc.Azzie's rivals will use it to their advatage by helping the Amazonians, they get a foothold in Amazonia and open up the country to the Megas.
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Well if you look at Cross tech and Fuchi who all used to be AAA corps. They were all broken up and absorbed by other companies in the aftermath of the crash.
Apparently you don't quite get the relationships, here..
- Cross was promoted, but was not guaranteed a AAA rating; it could fall.
- Fuchi became a AAA because it 'included' one of the corporations that was guaranteed a AAA rating; by inclusion, as it were, it was deeded the AAA rating. When the corporation that was guaranteed the AAA rating disappeared from their umbrella, they were on shaky ground -- because they no longer had the innate right to have that rating, Novatech did.
- Aztechnology, which is ORO renamed, is guaranteed the AAA rating, even if they're just a line on a page.
In order for this to go away, yes, the corporate court needs to change the rules. Someone can engulf Aztechnology (or whatever is left of them), declare a merger, then, I suppose a) assume the name before b) changing the name again, but they still will be guaranteed a AAA rating because they are the inheritors of ORO.
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When gaming convention boards start being Mr. Johnsons... Oh, now that's nasty!
Now my group is going to DETEST ever going back to LA if I ever run again! ;D
You know, CanRay, you could always just run a game here...
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When gaming convention boards start being Mr. Johnsons... Oh, now that's nasty!
Now my group is going to DETEST ever going back to LA if I ever run again! ;D
You know, CanRay, you could always just run a game here...
Oh no, I've already been buried up to my neck in the middle of winter once already, thank you very much!!!
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Well if you look at Cross tech and Fuchi who all used to be AAA corps. They were all broken up and absorbed by other companies in the aftermath of the crash.
Richard Villiers sold Fuchi Americas piece by piece in 2058 and 2059, including JRJ International right to AAA status, to Novatech, a megacorporation he controlled. He caused Fuchi break-up (which occurred way before the 2064 Crash). Then Shikei Nakatomi offered Renraku Computer System to buy Fuchi Asia assets in 2060. And finally Korin Yamana married a Shiawase heiress in 2060 and brought Fuchi Pan-Europa as a wedding gift.
Now, who's Neonet President/CEO and largest shareholder ? Richard Villiers. Who's Renraku Computer Systems Chairman of the Board and wrote the corporation new doctrine ? Shikei Nakatomi. Who's President/CEO of Shiawase and largest shareholder ? Korin Yamana.
So, yes, technically, Fuchi remnants were absorbed. And people who used to control a third of it now are the most powerful person in their new respective corporation.
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When gaming convention boards start being Mr. Johnsons... Oh, now that's nasty!
Now my group is going to DETEST ever going back to LA if I ever run again! ;D
You know, CanRay, you could always just run a game here...
Oh no, I've already been buried up to my neck in the middle of winter once already, thank you very much!!!
See, just stay inside, and run a game on the forums here. Don't worry about all that 'outside' nonsense.
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You have to think that, sooner or later, Renraku is gonna go gunning for Villers' NeoNET.
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I'm still waiting to see what Villers renames the company THIS time. ;D
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Yeah, Renraku's still trying to live down the Arcology debacle. I don't expect them to get out in front of anything for a while.
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True, true.
And it isn't like Villers doesn't have his hands full already.
(Maybe Shiawase could do it, then? Hm...)
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The PCC might be annoyed, but taking back San Diego might make it worth it to them.
Especially since it would give them another port on the Pacific, which they wouldn't need to bother with using Horizon to access.
It would also give them ComiCon. A great PR thing for a world full of Matrix Junkies. ;D
But the CAS still has Dragon*Con, so is clearly far superior.
Good to hear from another DC goer!
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Well, I'm only an hour down the road from Atlanta, so D*C is the only con I can go to.
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Well, I'm only an hour down the road from Atlanta, so D*C is the only con I can go to.
Man I come up from Orlando...... 7 to 8 hrs depending on traffic and/or the wife driving. ;)
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Heh. Speed limits are suggestions. Loose ones, if you have a radar detector.
Anyways, regarding the fallout from the AZT sanctions, I'd like to find out more about the Smoking Mirror, and what its plans are.
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okay, back on the topic of AZ fallout, since I was rereading the Denver box set today I noticed that the Feathered serpent Ditzblchken (sp) that they vivesected on pay per veiw has a sister. A Very protective sister in Denver. Henequen. They disliked each other because Ditz worked for AZ but niether would hurt the other.
Has Henequen poped up again?
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You can bet that she will if it becomes open season on Aztlan.
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You can bet that she will if it becomes open season on Aztlan.
Do you use hot sauce and salsa in Aztlan instead of ketchup?
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You can bet that she will if it becomes open season on Aztlan.
Do you use hot sauce and salsa in Aztlan instead of ketchup?
Silly Canadian! You never use hot sauce or salsa on barbecued metahuman!
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You can bet that she will if it becomes open season on Aztlan.
Do you use hot sauce and salsa in Aztlan instead of ketchup?
Silly Canadian! You never use hot sauce or salsa on barbecued metahuman!
Sorry if my taste in longpig is a little lacking. BBQ Sauce?
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Indeed. Ketchup and mayo is a decent alternative as well. Or, if you're looking for something with a bit of an eastern flair, try some teriyaki on it.
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Indeed. Ketchup and mayo is a decent alternative as well. Or, if you're looking for something with a bit of an eastern flair, try some teriyaki on it.
I hear Ghostwalker is fond of Old Bay Seasoning and slow-roasting of his longpork.
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But Lung prefers sushi, or so I've heard.
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Indeed. Ketchup and mayo is a decent alternative as well. Or, if you're looking for something with a bit of an eastern flair, try some teriyaki on it.
Man, you're crazy, Honey Mustard is the way to go.
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Deep Fry That Sucker! 8)
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I was just listening to some podcast where a guy literally battered and deep-fried a piece of cardboard and ate it.
It tasted just as good as anything else which actually isn't surprising in the least.
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When my High School club opened up an MRE, we tried a bit of everything.
The toilet paper was the only thing that tasted like it should have.
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Dragon-On-A-Stick?
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Dragon-On-A-Stick?
Lining another city up to be destroyed?
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Dragon-On-A-Stick?
Lining another city up to be destroyed?
Please let it be Tenochtitlan. With all the Azzie execs in the middle of the city when it happens.
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Dragon-On-A-Stick?
Lining another city up to be destroyed?
Please let it be Tenochtitlan. With all the Azzie execs in the middle of the city when it happens.
But then where would the evil go to live???
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Mitsuhama.
EDIT: Or Chicago. Because they're about due to get fragged over again.
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Dragon-On-A-Stick?
Lining another city up to be destroyed?
Please let it be Tenochtitlan. With all the Azzie execs in the middle of the city when it happens.
But then where would the evil go to live???
in the cesspit of it's own creation. Tenochtitlan.
Or a Garage in Buffalo, NY
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Dragon-On-A-Stick?
Lining another city up to be destroyed?
Please let it be Tenochtitlan. With all the Azzie execs in the middle of the city when it happens.
But then where would the evil go to live???
in the cesspit of it's own creation. Tenochtitlan.
Or a Garage in Buffalo, NY
Hell?
I hear it's a pretty decent place in Michigan.
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Pfft.
There's another Hellmouth in Cleveland.
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Nah, Buffalo NY. The snow will keep it contained and make it more bitter :D
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Economic sanctions are a pretty loose term. UN sanctions could mean embargo or it could mean trade tariffs.
Personally, I think it's too overt and heavy handed. No AAA can risk an open corporate war, and that's what would happen if Aztechnology was being backed into a corner. Basic Art of War: Never leave an enemy with no hope of escape, because they will fight doubly hard if they know they have nowhere to go. You destroy an enemy though compromise. Forcing public retreat through shaming is more than a compromise, it's an assault. If anything, it's begging AZT to take some skeletons out of a rival's closet and wave them around to move the public eye.
Not a bright move.
It's appropriate that someone brought up the Cuban Missile crisis. That was a situation where one small faction stared down a much larger faction simply because that smaller faction had the will to END EVERYONE in order to preserve itself. Pretty sure a culture with a positive attitude toward human sacrifice is not the one that people should want to openly challenge. Who knows, maybe the writers in charge will use this as the catalyst to blow up the Consensus thing on us. Aztechnology takes Horizon to the mat and shows the world what The-Devil-You-Don't-Know looks like under its pretties.