Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Character creation and critique => Topic started by: SladeWeston on <09-06-17/0107:41>
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This is my first 5th ed character and its been 6+ years since I've played any SR at all so please be gentle.
Goal: So my goal was to make a solid mage style character who wasn't horrible with a gun. Additionally, I tried to hit a middle ground between backstory driven choices and those that were more optimal. This means I tried to make 80% good choices and 20% purely for the sake of concept. That being said, if I totally missed something major that would be vastly more optimal or something that obviously fit better with my concept below, please feel free to let me know. I know the GM pretty well and its safe to assume that the game is going to be pretty "gritty" and hard on the players. I can expect BGC, slow healing wound rules variants and dump stats to be exploited. So while I understand it might be more cost efficient in the long run to build a character with more min/max attributes, I just don't think they'd survive very long(although I'm open to being convinced otherwise). Lastly, the character concept is still pretty loose. As you can see, I don't even have a name picked out. If you've got any good ideas roleplay ideas, those are very welcome too.
Concept: An ex-assassin for the Vatican/Templars who was excommunicated because it was discovered he practiced chaos magic instead of standard christian theology. He's gone to ground in the slums, hoping to hide among the SIN-less. Seeking redemption from a misguided life of violence he spends his time working a soup kitchen and ministering to the bedraggled masses. Despite his best efforts however the lure of action calls to him and he takes to the shadows once again.
Thanks in advance everyone.
== Personal Data ==
Street Name:
Name: Unnamed Character
Movement: 10/20 (2m/hit) Swim: 6 (1m/hit)
Karma: 0
Street Cred: 0
Notoriety: 0
Public Awareness: 0
Human
Composure: 8
Judge Intentions: 9
Lift/Carry: 6 (30 kg/20 kg)
Memory: 7
Nuyen: 680¥
== Priorities ==
Metatype: D,1
Attributes: A,4
Special: B,3
Skills: C,2
Resources: E,0
== Attributes ==
BOD: 4
AGI: 5
REA: 5 ( 8 )
STR: 2
CHA: 3
INT: 6
LOG: 2
WIL: 5
EDG: 3
MAG: 6
== Derived Attributes ==
Essence: 6
Initiative: 14 +4d6
Rigger Initiative: 14 +4d6
Astral Initiative: 12 +3d6
Matrix AR: 14 +4d6
Matrix Cold: 6 + DP +3d6
Matrix Hot: 6 + DP +4d6
Physical Damage Track: 10
Stun Damage Track: 11
== Limits ==
Physical: 6
Mental: 5
Social: 6
Ballistic Mask [+1] (Only for intimidation, Must be visible)
Astral: 6
== Active Skills ==
Assensing Base: 1 Pool: 7
Counterspelling Base: 1 Pool: 7
Etiquette Base: 1 Pool: 4
Flight Base: 1 Pool: 6
Gymnastics (Dodging) Base: 1 Pool: 6 ( 8 )
Navigation Base: 1 Pool: 7
Negotiation Base: 1 Pool: 4
Palming Base: 0 Pool: 7
Perception Base: 5 Pool: 11
Performance (Sermon) Base: 1 Pool: 4 (6)
Pilot Ground Craft Base: 1 Pool: 9
Pistols (Semi-Automatics) Base: 5 Pool: 10 (12)
Running Base: 1 Pool: 3
Sneaking Base: 4 Pool: 9
Spellcasting (Combat) Base: 6 Pool: 12 (14)
Summoning Base: 6 Pool: 12
Survival Base: 1 Pool: 6
Swimming Base: 1 Pool: 3
Tracking Base: 1 Pool: 7
== Knowledge Skills ==
Italian Base: 1 Pool: 7
Latin Base: 1 Pool: 7
Spanish Base: 1 Pool: 7
Charity Shelters Base: 1 Pool: 7
Gangs Base: 1 Pool: 7
Magic Traditions Base: 1 Pool: 3
Religion (Christianity) Base: 6 Pool: 8 (10)
Sprawl Life (Soup Kitchens) Base: 2 Pool: 8 (10)
== Contacts ==
; Gang Leader (4, 5)
== Qualities ==
Day Job (10 hrs) (Soup Kitchen)
Distinctive Style
Family Curse
Focused Concentration (Rating 1)
Mystic Adept
Wanted (30,000)
== Tradition ==
Chaos Magic, Resist Drain with: WIL + INT (11)
== Spells ==
Heal DV: F-4
Improved Invisibility DV: F-1
Increase [Attribute] (INT)DV: F-3
Levitate DV: F-2
Manabolt DV: F-3
Physical Barrier DV: F-1
Stunball DV: F
Trid Phantasm DV: F
== Powers ==
Astral Perception
Heightened Concentration
Improved ReflexesRating: 3
Linguistics
Nimble Fingers
Rapid Draw
== Lifestyle ==
Old Church (Low) 1 Months
+ Obscure/Difficult to Find [+10%]
== Armor ==
Armor Jacket 12
Ballistic Mask 2
== Weapons ==
Ares Light Fire 70
+ Hidden Gun Arm Slide
+ Silencer, Ares Light Fire 70
Pool: 10 (12) Accuracy: 7 DV: 6P AP: - RC: 2
Savalette Guardian
+ Concealed Quick-Draw Holster
+ Smartgun System, Internal
Pool: 10 (12) Accuracy: 7 DV: 8P AP: -1 RC: 3
Unarmed Attack
Pool: 4 Accuracy: 6 DV: 2S AP: - RC: 2
== Gear: Equipped ==
Ammo: APDS (Heavy Pistols) x30
Ammo: Stick-n-Shock (Light Pistols) x30
Contacts Rating 1
+ Image Link
Earbuds Rating 1
+ Select Sound Filter Rating 1
Fake License (Adept License) Rating 3
Fake License (Firearms License) Rating 3
Fake SIN (legitimate Preacher) Rating 3
Micro-Transceiver
Reagents, per dram x30
Slap Patch, Trauma Patch
== Vehicles ==
Entertainment Systems Cyclops
+ Gyro-Stabilization
+ Sensor Array Rating 1
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You have a lot of skills at rating 1. If they were purchased with skill points that is highly suboptimal. Increase attributes won't work with focused concentration 1.
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Thanks for the reply.
Skills - Please explain how 1 rank is not optimal? I understand that ranks have a scaling karma price post character creation, but I'm balancing that with the fact that 1 rank is worth a net 2 increase and not having to justify something like learning to swim post character creation. I very much have a GM who punishes untrained tests. It's also worth noting that a lot of those ones are from the two skill groups C rank grants. Is there a way to get those skill points not as a skill group? I couldn't see a way in Chummer nor do I know if it was an option (man I hate the priority system). Apart from Counterspelling and Assensing which I wouldn't get rid of, I only see about 4-5 points that are being spend on thematic specializations or rank 1 skills. How would you suggest I move things around to be more optimal?
Focused Concentration - Ya, I get that. I considered juggling the points to find room for enough ranks but decided that was impractical. I opted for the heightened concentration power specifically for that reason. I know there is some debate as to the duration of heightened concentration but my GM is going to allow it for the duration of the spell. In the end I grabbed Focused Concentration because it seems incredibly useful to sustain a physical barrier for free and to have the option to cheese** up levitate or Imp. Invis. to a decent force with reagents and get the sustain. Plus down the road there are plenty of other spells worth sustaining for 1 force. Seemed worth the 4 karma but I'm open for discussion.
**Regarding using reagents to cheat up the force of a spell for low level sustaining. I have discussed it with my GM and he said that he plans on using background count and counterspelling enough that he wasn't concerned about it as long as it wasn't part of my regular "load out". Given how little cash I have on hand, I don't suspect that will be an issue.
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Note that reagents don't effect the force of the spell, they effect the limit of the spell. A force 1 physical barrier with reagents is still only force 1 and still just a tiny little area.
And if your DM uses house rules to punish not having ranks in skills, that obviously changes how much skill 1 vs. skill 0 is worth. That's probably something you should have included in the original post.
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I'm not sure I would call what he does house rule. He does insist that we role play our characters skills and weaknesses. He's the type of GM who is going to look at you sideways if you want to truck around town on a bike relying on your untrained Reaction pool. That kind of thing is frowned upon at my table. Sorry if that wasn't clear in the post.
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Looks functional!
Like shadow said, it would be more optimal to use your skillpoints to go deeper into fewer skills than spreading them around. It only takes 10 karma in game to get five rank 1 skills, but 30 karma in game to get one skill to rank 5. The character generation system is fifth skews to building "tall" characters and widening out in play, not the other way around. It is more efficient to make sure you are very good at what you do at character generation, and pick up the little stuff later. At the very least, instead of spreading skill points into rank 1 skill, you a point to add a specialization to some of them.
You also don't need heightened concern and Focused Concetration 1.
For spells, I would probably replace stunball with a physical AoE indirect spell, to have another kind of damage option. Something light Lightning Ball works well against drones, for example.
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At the very least, instead of spreading skill points into rank 1 skill, you a point to add a specialization to some of them.
So here are the rank 1 skills not tied to a skill group.
Assensing
Counterspelling
Etiquette
Negotiation
Pilot Ground Craft
Performance (Sermon)
Apart from Performance, which is obviously just a RP concession, which would you suggest I drop. How about I drop the outdoors skill group for the influence skill group? That would free up two points to bump sneaking and perception. I'm pretty sure I want at least 1 in both assensing and counterspelling. That doesn't leave much left to move around. Also, as far as specializations, did you see anything obvious that I missed?
You also don't need heightened concern and Focused Concetration 1.
Can you elaborate a bit on this please? Which would you drop? What would you use the PP/Karma for that would be superior and why? Was their a major flaw in my logic for wanting both?
For spells, I would probably replace stunball with a physical AoE indirect spell, to have another kind of damage option. Something light Lightning Ball works well against drones, for example.
Honestly I copied those spells, mostly wholesale from another thread. I guess the idea behind this suggest would be to have a physical damage spell in addition to a stun spell?
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If you are assensing, you have to be perceiving, which means you are taking -2, so you aren't really rolling great on assensing. You could just have a spirit do it for you.
You have an 8 reaction. That means 7 untrained dice in pilot ground vehicles compared to a normal person's trained dice pool of 6.
Etiquette and negotiation are fine for 1 point, but use karma on them instead of skill points.
Put those skill points into counterspelling so you can actually cover your team and do so meaningfully.
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Is being an m-adept critical to your character concept or image? Adept while very strong is very resource intensive, with foci and more spells you can achieve most of the same things.
Manabolt is a direct physical damage effect having both your spells be direct is limiting. Indirect can be advantageous and lightning is the preferred elemental effect in this edition.
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If you are assensing, you have to be perceiving, which means you are taking -2, so you aren't really rolling great on assensing. You could just have a spirit do it for you.
Doesn't heightened concentration allow me to ignore that -2 penalty? Is a 7 really not worth having? I don't know about this edition, but it seems like a bad idea to rely on summons for all your assensing.
Put those skill points into counterspelling so you can actually cover your team and do so meaningfully.
So would you suggest that I drop Focused Concentration 1 and adjust my skills to max counterspelling?
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It isn't that it isn't worth having, but it might not be worth having at the cost of a skill point. At the cost of 2 karma, it would be fine.
And yes, more counterspelling is very good.
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Manabolt is a direct physical damage effect having both your spells be direct is limiting. Indirect can be advantageous and lightning is the preferred elemental effect in this edition.
That makes a lot of sense. Lightning Ball it is.
As for the Mage vs MystAd thing. I'm not sure. I mostly went Mystical Adept because the consensus seemed that they could do most everything a mage could do only better. Before I trigger some people, I'm only repeating threads I've read and don't have an opinion one way or the other. I could be way off base here or I could have built this character in such a way that he is better off as a mage. I'm pretty open to whatever.
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Mystic adepts trade astral projection for the ability to buy adept powers, also losing out on whatever else they could have purchased with that Karma. They are very robust in SR5, but mages are competitive. It depends on what your focus is. For a combat mage type, mystic adept is a good choice.
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Many games never touch on projection, and while project can open up some very interesting options is mostly beyond the scope or your average game.
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Projection is a wonderful tool. It shouldn't be "beyond the scope of a game" any more than the matrix is or face skills are.
Personally, I think this character would work fine as a straight mage, you aren't doing anything with the adept side you can't do just as well with magic.
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Mystic Adepts give up astral projection and have to pay a premium (1 power point) just to have astral perception to have the option to spend a boat load of karma to buy adept powers. I say boat load because you have to pay 5 karma per adept power point you want. If you go with the standard Magic 6 that 30 karma. So you pay alot but you get alot to go with it. Adept powers can accomplish things you cant do with spells as well as let you get them done for less resources. After char gen the only way to get more PP is to take the adept power point meta magic which is costly as since your a mage you tend to want all the shiny mage meta magics. That said despite thier detractors Mages are competitive with them. Mainly because a pure mage tends to have a little better spell arsenal and magic skills because thats where they put the karma the mystic adept spent on power points and such. Mystic adepts tend to be the Jack of All Trades characters that are covering alot of bases, but they also tend to be the Masters of None as they are so broad in a lot of cases.
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Mystic adepts tend to be the Jack of All Trades characters that are covering alot of bases, but they also tend to be the Masters of None as they are so broad in a lot of cases.
When I do a mystic adept, it is the opposite, I'm burning a lot of karma but I'm specializing my character. For example a face / shaman who gets to be a social adept that has backup magic or a combat mage who gets a higher combat skill and heightened reflexes. Where as my non-mystic adepts get to spend karma building out wide (or tall, specializing in magic, which in and of itself lends to going wide).
That said, I do not think one is necessarily superior to the other. If a character doesn't have a clear reason to go mystic adept I think they are probably served best by going straight mage. (And I do think this build would likewise, be served well by going straight mage.)
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Thanks for the great feedback everyone. While I stuck with Mystic Adept, I did shuffle my skills around a bit, to better take advantage of tall stacks, and either removed or replaced a few one pt skills with karma buys. I also dropped focused concentration 1 for Deus Vult! which seemed more functional and way more thematic for a priest assassin type. Lastly, I swapped out stun ball for Ball Lightning.
Last question, since the game is tonight. I still have one point of karma to cash I could convert and I was considering a fetish. I wanted to see what peoples thoughts were on fetishes. Are they worth the dependency it gives for the extra drain resist? If so, which of my spells would you choose?
Also, any other last minute obvious changes I missed would be appreciated.
== Personal Data ==
Street Name:
Name: Unnamed Character
Movement: 10/20 (2m/hit) Swim: 6 (1m/hit)
Karma: 0
Street Cred: 0
Notoriety: 0
Public Awareness: 0
Human
Composure: 8
Judge Intentions: 9
Lift/Carry: 6 (30 kg/20 kg)
Memory: 7
Nuyen: 415¥
== Priorities ==
Metatype: D,1
Attributes: A,4
Special: B,3
Skills: C,2
Resources: E,0
== Attributes ==
BOD: 4
AGI: 5
REA: 5 ( 8 )
STR: 2
CHA: 3
INT: 6
LOG: 2
WIL: 5
EDG: 3
MAG: 6
== Derived Attributes ==
Essence: 6
Initiative: 14 +4d6
Rigger Initiative: 14 +4d6
Astral Initiative: 12 +3d6
Matrix AR: 14 +4d6
Matrix Cold: 6 + DP +3d6
Matrix Hot: 6 + DP +4d6
Physical Damage Track: 10
Stun Damage Track: 11
== Limits ==
Physical: 6
Mental: 5
Social: 6
Ballistic Mask [+1] (Only for intimidation, Must be visible)
Astral: 6
== Active Skills ==
Assensing Base: 0 Pool: 7
Counterspelling Base: 5 Pool: 11
Flight Base: 1 Pool: 6
Gymnastics (Dodging) Base: 1 Pool: 6 ( 8 )
Navigation Base: 1 Pool: 7
Perception Base: 5 Pool: 11
Performance (Sermon) Base: 1 Pool: 4 (6)
Pistols (Semi-Automatics) Base: 6 Pool: 11 (13)
Running Base: 1 Pool: 3
Sneaking (Urban) Base: 2 Pool: 7 (9)
Spellcasting (Combat) Base: 6 Pool: 12 (14)
Summoning Base: 6 Pool: 12
Survival Base: 1 Pool: 6
Swimming Base: 1 Pool: 3
Tracking Base: 1 Pool: 7
== Knowledge Skills ==
Italian Base: 1 Pool: 7
Latin Base: 1 Pool: 7
Spanish Base: 1 Pool: 7
Charity Shelters Base: 1 Pool: 7
Gangs Base: 1 Pool: 7
Magic Traditions Base: 1 Pool: 3
Religion (Christianity) Base: 6 Pool: 8 (10)
Sprawl Life (Soup Kitchens) Base: 2 Pool: 8 (10)
== Contacts ==
; Gang Leader (4, 5)
== Qualities ==
Day Job (10 hrs) (Soup Kitchen)
Deus Vult!
Distinctive Style
Family Curse
Mystic Adept
Wanted (30,000)
== Tradition ==
Psionic, Resist Drain with: WIL + INT (11)
== Spells ==
Ball Lightning DV: F-1
Heal DV: F-4
Improved Invisibility DV: F-1
Increase [Attribute] (INT)DV: F-3
Levitate DV: F-2
Manabolt DV: F-3
Physical Barrier DV: F-1
Trid Phantasm DV: F
== Powers ==
Astral Perception
Heightened Concentration
Improved ReflexesRating: 3
Linguistics
Nimble Fingers
Rapid Draw
== Lifestyle ==
Old Church (Low) 1 Months
+ Obscure/Difficult to Find [+10%]
== Armor ==
Armor Jacket 12
Ballistic Mask 2
== Weapons ==
Ares Light Fire 70
+ Hidden Gun Arm Slide
+ Silencer, Ares Light Fire 70
Pool: 11 (13) Accuracy: 7 DV: 6P AP: - RC: 2
Savalette Guardian
+ Concealed Quick-Draw Holster
+ Personalized Grip
+ Smartgun System, Internal
Pool: 11 (13) Accuracy: 8 DV: 8P AP: -1 RC: 3
Unarmed Attack
Pool: 4 Accuracy: 6 DV: 2S AP: - RC: 2
== Gear: Equipped ==
Ammo: APDS (Heavy Pistols) x30
Ammo: Capsule Rounds (Light Pistols) x30
+ Pepper Punch
Ammo: Stick-n-Shock (Light Pistols) x30
Contacts Rating 1
+ Image Link
Earbuds Rating 1
+ Select Sound Filter Rating 1
Fake License (Adept License) Rating 3
Fake License (Firearms License) Rating 3
Fake SIN (legitimate Preacher) Rating 3
Micro-Transceiver
Reagents, per dram x30
Slap Patch, Trauma Patch
== Vehicles ==
Entertainment Systems Cyclops
+ Gyro-Stabilization
+ Sensor Array Rating 1
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Save the karma for later.
starting contacts can't have more than 7 total points in connection/loyalty... your fixer is over spent. You can drop it down to 3/4 and pick up 1/1 contact.
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Save the karma for later.
starting contacts can't have more than 7 total points in connection/loyalty... your fixer is over spent. You can drop it down to 3/4 and pick up 1/1 contact.
Good catch. Thanks.
On a side note. Can someone help me to understand whats all needed for the smartlink bonus? Obviously the gun has to have it, but do you also need it in your eyes/contacts/glasses or is an image link adequate? I ask because I just noticed that all of the examples in the book have smartlinked optics to go with their SL guns.
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For bonuses you need smart link optics. That's why they exist. The bonus increases if your smart link optics are paid for with essence / inside a cyber eye that you paid for with essence.
I like fetishes for high drain spells or spells that you over cast. Ball lightning, for example, is a spell I would often put as a fetish spell. If you take a fetish spell, it is often a good idea to have at least 2 fetishes though, they're cheap enough, and given your lack of a talismonger contact you might have a problem if one gets destroyed.
ETA: Build looks good by the way. And have fun tonight. I'm jealous.
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For bonuses you need smart link optics. That's why they exist. The bonus increases if your smart link optics are paid for with essence / inside a cyber eye that you paid for with essence.
I like fetishes for high drain spells or spells that you over cast. Ball lightning, for example, is a spell I would often put as a fetish spell. If you take a fetish spell, it is often a good idea to have at least 2 fetishes though, they're cheap enough, and given your lack of a talismonger contact you might have a problem if one gets destroyed.
ETA: Build looks good by the way. And have fun tonight. I'm jealous.
hmm... so now I'm torn. Do I get smartlink on my contacts or a fetish? I guess I could always drop my bike and be "that guy" who has to tag along with others.
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It is +1 dice to rolls you will make fairly often (both guns have a smart link, right?) vs. taking less damage when you have to use ball lightning, but not actually having it come up very often. Mechanically the smart link will probably be better, but if you don't do the fetish now, it has a higher cost. if you want to do it later (since you would have to learn the spell a second time).
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Okay, it looks like one of the players is going to be a rigger so we've got vehicles covered. So lets say I have 6500 more nuyen, what stuff, magic or otherwise, would you purchase? I'm also going two tweak my contacts based on your suggestion to have a Talismonger handy. Thanks for that suggestion btw.
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Increase your Fake SIN to rating 4 for sure.