[Shinobi Killfist]

As an aside for Riggers, they need to work on the repair costs.  I can't remember if it was ever fixed in 5e as none of my players bothered playing one due to the repair costs.

Of course the ultimate rigger was my mage rigger, who used clairvoyance and magic fingers. Oh yeah, invisible done. Watch out for my floating gun of doom. That and disposable drones AKA spirits.

[Redwulfe]

I always liked the concept of the rigger overwatch. using drones to expand sensor ranges and as team scouting support letting the team do all the heavy lifting with more tactical information to go by. Plus sensor style drones where much cheaper if they got gunned down to replace, leaving me more money to build the mobile command center for the team.

[Iron Serpent Prince]

I like how people are defending the Rigger position, by pointing out all that is wrong with Riggers. 

"Car Thief" Rigger, "Hack the Car."  That is a non-starter in 5e.  Zero percent of "Rigger gear" has an Attack or Sleaze Rating.  Meaning the Rigger either has to shell out huge amounts of Nuyen for a Deck, or use one of two workarounds.  (A dongle for their commlink, or Persona Firmware mod a Stealth Tag.)

Then, the Rigger has to dip into a skillset that isn't theirs to do the hacking.

Unfortunately, Hacking is pretty much required, unless the Rigger wants to use an extended Hardware Test to disable wireless.  And that might be a skillset outside their own, depending on build.



"Technomancer with Skinlink" as Car Thief Rigger.  Thank you for acknowledging that Techno's are better at Rigging than Riggers.  It reads as if this won't improve in 6e, as Banshee has stated that Technos start out of the gate of CharGen as fully functioning Deckers with the neat tools that are Techno only (Complex Forms and Sprites.)

After one, maybe two Submersions, the Techno is a baby Rigger (unless 6e has changed the dynamic a lot, more than enough to fill the roll of Rigger) that can grow into a full fledged Rigger with enough Submersions.  (Probably 3, maybe 4.)  All the while, never giving up full Decker and the neat stuff that is Techno only.


I still have to see what all was done with Riggers, but right now it reads as if Riggers are still the trash Archetype.

[Singularity]

"Technomancer with Skinlink" as Car Thief Rigger.  Thank you for acknowledging that Techno's are better at Rigging than Riggers.  It reads as if this won't improve in 6e, as Banshee has stated that Technos start out of the gate of CharGen as fully functioning Deckers with the neat tools that are Techno only (Complex Forms and Sprites.)

After one, maybe two Submersions, the Techno is a baby Rigger (unless 6e has changed the dynamic a lot, more than enough to fill the roll of Rigger) that can grow into a full fledged Rigger with enough Submersions.  (Probably 3, maybe 4.)  All the while, never giving up full Decker and the neat stuff that is Techno only.


I still have to see what all was done with Riggers, but right now it reads as if Riggers are still the trash Archetype.

When technomancers were first mentioned to me, the guy telling me about Shadowrun said that in the previous edition there was something you could take at character creation (some kind of machine spirit or special path) to make a drone-technomancer? Did those not get reintroduced in 5th edition? If not, do you think those will be in 6th edition? I'm a bit excited by the idea of having my first character be someone who can do some hacking and drone work, and I'm trying to decide whether to use the cyber or technomancer path. From the sounds of it, the cyber option suffers a lot under the current edition's rules?

[Michael Chandra]

In SR5 you can use a submersion to have the same benefit as those with a Control Rig implant, allowing you to jump in and rig.

[Singularity]

In SR5 you can use a submersion to have the same benefit as those with a Control Rig implant, allowing you to jump in and rig.

Submersion? Is that something you can do at character creation?

[Michael Chandra]

Teeeeeechnically no, but you can either puppy-eye the GM (official-approved houserule for those desiring it), or keep some karma saved up in chargen so you can do so after 1 or 2 runs.

[Singularity]

Teeeeeechnically no, but you can either puppy-eye the GM (official-approved houserule for those desiring it), or keep some karma saved up in chargen so you can do so after 1 or 2 runs.

I might have to go with option #2, as I think I might be playing in the official campaign thingy (Seasons?).

[Psimon_Says]

I have always been disappointed in the Rigger role in the Shadowrun setting. Maybe because my initial exposure to the the entire genre was Gibson's character Cowboy from "Burning Chrome". Sort of set the tone in my head. For me it is a critical archetype. Hoping this edition can give it some relevance again.

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

Well in 5E, my perspective on the problem with riggers was threefold:

1) Technomancers do the Rigger's job better than the Rigger.  They can do everything a Rigger can do, PLUS they can proactively defend their matrix connections.  PLUS they get magic powers repackaged as "techno-magic".

2) Drones are pure bunk compared to Spirits.  Granted, high force Spirits are ridiculously OP compared to everything not just drones... but 5E doesn't make you pay enough to get a high force spirit.  F6 for no drain is about what a well built mage should expect, and you should be getting a F9 for no meaningful price other than a point of edge.  There'll never be a drone that can do what a F6 or F9 spirit can do.

3) Riggers are largely unique in that their toys can get broken. Generally speaking the sniper's rifle isn't destroyed.  The sammy's cyberarm doesn't get destroyed.  They might get bricked, sure, if you're sloppy. But fixing matrix damage is virtually free.  And of course, see #2 about the "price" of fixing a broken spirit.

SRM has a 4th problem for riggers:

4) Transportation is usually hand-waived. SRMs have to fit completely inside a 4 hour play session, and figuring out how the team is going from point A to point B is usually just ignored or fiat'ed in favor of other kinds of challenges/action. (even worse: the fiat way too often involves circumstances that denies a rigger his vehicle!)  And from a writing perspective, it's something of a gamble to devote a chase scene in an adventure.  What happens if the table doesn't HAVE a driver?

[Marcus]

They put SSDR on the errata team? I guess we will all need to be prepared for sapient dead thing in 6e lol.

To be fair vehicle rules and repair rules were a garbage fire across most of 5e. The bike truck example was my favorite.

[Ghost Rigger]

To be fair vehicle rules and repair rules were a garbage fire across most of 5e. The bike truck example was my favorite.

Do I even want to know what that one is referring to?

[Tecumseh]

A semi-truck driver can get sent to the hospital by colliding with a scooter. This is because the damage you soak is based off the Body of the vehicle you are in, not what you crash into. Thus the person on the scooter gets a twisted ankle while the driver of the semi goes to the morgue. It's a particularly egregious example of a rule that didn't work in 5th Edition.

[Ghost Rigger]

Ah, yes, that matter. Very easily corrected by houseruling that the crash damage is based on the body of the other vehicle.

[PiXeL01]

They put SSDR on the errata team? I guess we will all need to be prepared for sapient dead thing in 6e lol.

To be fair vehicle rules and repair rules were a garbage fire across most of 5e. The bike truck example was my favorite.

He’s being kept in check :p