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Penalty for distance - using Latency instead of noise

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Telaos

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« on: <08-14-15/1111:15> »
Let me start this off by saying the idea of noise is excellent and I agree with most uses of it.  However, the noise penalty due to distance, as I understand it, makes little sense to me.  An incredibly complex virtual reality designed to facilitate world trade is brought to it's knees at a distance over 100 km?  So I came up with a different penalty for distance:  Latency.

Latency would work simply:  To reflect the increased time between commands caused by distance, there would be a negative d6 penalty given say starting at... 500 km and increasing per 1000km or something like that.  You would not go negative, but eventually be reduced to just your Initiative with no d6 added.  Not sure if this should persist in hosts, as they are considered not to be physically based but perhaps these rules could be adapted.  This makes way more sense than throwing in noise for distance. 

Now I believe they instituted the noise over distance as a way to force people to get physically close a target.  This could still be done with the use of limited noise from distance (I'd cap it at 5ish) or maybe increase the amount of noise due to zones, being on different grids, or atmospheric conditions to name a few.  But if I want to check out a local shop in Japan and I'm in France, this should be more than possible. 

Thoughts?

Atlessa

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« Reply #1 on: <08-14-15/1432:25> »
I always assume that "Noise" is just a blanket term that encompasses all the problems that being a certain distance away from your target brings with it. Including, but not limited to, latency.

Sterling

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« Reply #2 on: <08-14-15/1611:07> »
I always assume that "Noise" is just a blanket term that encompasses all the problems that being a certain distance away from your target brings with it. Including, but not limited to, latency.

There's no need to assume it.  Page 230 of the Core Rulebook (second printing):

Quote
It may seem as if traffic in the Matrix is instantaneous, but ask anyone who has played an online game with someone a few continents away—there is a noticeable delay compared to playing someone next door. When decisions are being made in the blink of an eye, every speed difference matters. The farther you are away from an icon in real life, the harder it is to communicate with it, whether your intentions are harmful or benign.

So latency is already accounted for in Noise.
"His name is Sterling. He’s an ex-pat Brit making a living as a fixer and a hacker in Metropole. He’s a rare blend of upstanding and fun...(so) listen to his experience."
>>Data Trails, p.82

Telaos

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« Reply #3 on: <08-14-15/1649:45> »
That is my whole point though, latency is accounted for in game by adding "noise", which doesn't make sense or make for an interesting penalty for distance IMO.  I believe it not only makes more sense to penalize initiative because of distance, but adds another interested layer to consider when trying to do something remotely.  With a noise of 8, how could a normal user connect to grids or information that is more than 100 km away?  That makes no sense to me, especially since we do this on a regular basis NOW. 


Kincaid

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« Reply #4 on: <08-14-15/1718:49> »
I have a house rule that adds latency via Electronic Warfare (essentially acting as a Decrease Initiative spell for Matrix Initiative), but doubling on distance-related penalties could get pretty harsh.
Killing so many sacred cows, I'm banned from India.

Sterling

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« Reply #5 on: <08-15-15/0646:49> »
That is my whole point though, latency is accounted for in game by adding "noise", which doesn't make sense or make for an interesting penalty for distance IMO.  I believe it not only makes more sense to penalize initiative because of distance, but adds another interested layer to consider when trying to do something remotely.  With a noise of 8, how could a normal user connect to grids or information that is more than 100 km away?  That makes no sense to me, especially since we do this on a regular basis NOW.

I'd advise caution about applying what can be done now in real life to what can be done in game, especially when reality diverged so violently in the late 1990s game time.  Things we take for granted now in real life may not have been invented in the game timeline.  Could be the inventor died of VITAS, or goblinised and couldn't get funding because he/she was now an ork/troll, or was shot in a food riot, or....etc, etc.

The other thing is why would your average wageslave want to buy from a shop on the other side of the world?  Their parent Megacorporation would provide everything they need in their local complex.  As for Shdowrunners and the other SINless, well they don't matter to the rest of the world.  Again, the future of Shadowrun is not our future.
"His name is Sterling. He’s an ex-pat Brit making a living as a fixer and a hacker in Metropole. He’s a rare blend of upstanding and fun...(so) listen to his experience."
>>Data Trails, p.82

Atlessa

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« Reply #6 on: <08-15-15/0857:54> »

I'd advise caution about applying what can be done now in real life to what can be done in game, especially when reality diverged so violently in the late 1990s game time.  Things we take for granted now in real life may not have been invented in the game timeline.

Not saying you're wrong, but in this particular case: We could connect to faraway lands (as in: the internet existed) long before the awakening, without problem...

Sterling

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« Reply #7 on: <08-15-15/0922:35> »

I'd advise caution about applying what can be done now in real life to what can be done in game, especially when reality diverged so violently in the late 1990s game time.  Things we take for granted now in real life may not have been invented in the game timeline.

Not saying you're wrong, but in this particular case: We could connect to faraway lands (as in: the internet existed) long before the awakening, without problem...

This is a good example of what I mean.  Shadowrun was released in 1989.  The internet was first available to the public 6 August 1991*.  Therefore in Shadowrun timeline the internet as we know it does not exist.  At the time the game was written the only basis to work on was William Gibson's Neuromancer, released in 1984.


*http://thenextweb.com/insider/2011/08/06/20-years-ago-today-the-world-wide-web-opened-to-the-public/
« Last Edit: <08-15-15/0924:35> by Sterling »
"His name is Sterling. He’s an ex-pat Brit making a living as a fixer and a hacker in Metropole. He’s a rare blend of upstanding and fun...(so) listen to his experience."
>>Data Trails, p.82