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SR5 Rigger Jump In

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Hanzo

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« on: <06-01-21/0432:56> »
Hoi, chummers!

As we all know that you cannot start your Persona on two devices. In order to start your Persona on one device you must reboot the first device and then start your Persona on the second one.

How come riggers can avoid this rule when they Jump between different drones using RCC without rebooting drones in combat? Or is this a special Feature of RCC and Rigger Adaptation in drones and vehicles?

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #1 on: <06-01-21/0533:13> »
I mean you didn't start your persona through the drone, no? If I visit a different Host, I don't need to reset either.

Quote
When you jump into a vehicle or drone, your control
rig feeds information to your brain to make you feel like
the machine you’re jumping into. There’s a bit of a virtual
transformation process that takes a second or two, helping
ensure that the change doesn’t hit you like a brick
to the noggin. After that, your control rig uses signals
from your brain to control the machine, so it moves the
way you want it to, so seamlessly that you might as well
be one being.
How am I not part of the forum?? O_O I am both active and angry!

Hanzo

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« Reply #2 on: <06-01-21/0724:44> »
Quote
JUMP INTO RIGGED DEVICE (COMPLEX ACTION)
Marks Required: 3 Test:  Electronic  Warfare  +  Logic  [Data  Processing]  v.  Willpower + Firewall
You jump into a device that has a rigger adaptation, usually a vehicle or a drone. There’s a list of things you need to have in order to jump into a device: you have to  have  three  marks  on  the  device  you  want  to  jump  into, you have to be in VR, the device you want to jump into has to have a rigger adaptation, and you have to have a control rig. If you are the device’s owner, or the device’s owner has given you permission to jump into the device, you don’t need to make a test. In the Matrix, the icon of the device you jumped into becomes part of your persona. If  someone  else  is  already  jumped  into  the  device,  you cannot attempt this action until he or she vacates.

Here is the thing: What does it mean "part of your Persona"? What do I see in AR, when I see a drone with a jumpped in rigger? How do I treat this Icon when I try to interract with it (e.i. if there going to be any noise due to distance to the RCC the Persona is run at) ?
« Last Edit: <06-01-21/0855:46> by Hanzo »

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #3 on: <06-01-21/1022:38> »
I think you understand this part, but I'm going to state it anyway because it sets up the harder part you're asking about:

When a rigger jumps in, the vehicle's matrix icon merges with the rigger's persona.  Two icons become one, and the one is a continuation of the rigger's persona rather than a gestalt of the two.

On to the harder part:

If you're looking at a car's matrix icon, and then some rigger jumps in, what do you see happening? 
The first wrinkle is that it's unspecified as to whether "merging" means as far as the matrix is concerned there's two physical locations still, or just the one.  9 times out of 10 it doesn't matter because you can't DO anything to the car in the matrix whilst a rigger is jumped in*... but this scenario would be one of those 10s.  So, it matters whether distance-based Noise is measured from the observer to the car or from the observer to the rigger.   I would say that because the car's matrix icon is merged into the rigger's, the distance to the car itself ceases to be relevant and therefore distance is a question of observer to the rigger.

And with that being the case, if the rigger is not within 100m of the observer, spotting is not automatic.  A Matrix Perception test would now be called for.  Likewise, if the car was not running silent and then a silent-running rigger jumped in, a Matrix Perception test would also be necessary.

If the matrix perception test is successful (or wasn't necessary in the first place, i.e. the rigger is within 100m of the observer and not running silent): The observer would see the car's icon merge with the rigger's persona.  The exact details are irrelevant, and based on iconography anyway.  Is the rigger a neo-cowboy?  Maybe the car's icon momentarily transforms into a horse during the merging process while the rigger's cowboy icon changes into a cowboy riding a horse.  Or, maybe the car's icon melts into a million motes of light and reform as the rigger's icon.  Infinite possibilities, but they're all rules-indistinguishable.

If the matrix perception test is unsuccessful:  Essentially, the car's matrix icon just disappears.  Maybe the GM might throw a bone by saying perhaps the Cowboy rigger's car turned into horse, then galloped off into the unknown.  Maybe the car dissolved into a million motes of light, then they all faded out.  Again, rules-wise, this is all roleplaying fluff.  Rules-wise, what's important is the observer no longer has the car's matrix icon spotted.


*EDIT: This is a tangent, and it might be something you already grok, but I'm gonna throw it out there anyway because it's a very interesting way the matrix rules work:  Once a rigger is jumped in to a car, you cannot trace the physical location of that car.  It has no matrix icon!  All you can target with a trace icon matrix action is the rigger's persona, which may or may not be inside that car...  If you want to trace the CAR once a rigger jumps in, you need to affix some sort of tracking signal!  Tracer bullets, RFID tags, etc.   That, or wait for the rigger to cease jumping in so the car's matrix icon re-emerges...
« Last Edit: <06-01-21/1034:05> by Stainless Steel Devil Rat »
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Hanzo

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« Reply #4 on: <06-01-21/1104:58> »
That a really good explanation and I love it ! Thanks a lot !

But... doesn't that...

For example: We've got a rigger with an RCC with a drone/vehicle. The rigger starts a Persona on the RCC and slaves the drone/vehicle to it. When the rigger makes the Jump In form the meat space via the RCC right into the Matrix the drone/vehicle's icon is substituted with the Persona's icon. (No problem with that). But according to CRB. 235
Quote
PERSONA
Personas are the “people” of the Matrix. Some personas are actually people, users and hackers who are connect-ed to and using the Matrix. When a person uses a device to connect to the Matrix, the device’s icon is subsumed by  the  persona’s  icon,  so  it’s  basically  gone  from  the  Matrix until the persona jacks out. You can only run one persona at a time; switching requires you to reboot both the device you’re currently on and the device to which you want to shift your persona.

and here we have situation when core-rule-bookwise when the rigger wants to take the Jump he must reboot the RCC and the drone/vehicle.

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #5 on: <06-01-21/1116:39> »
That a really good explanation and I love it ! Thanks a lot !

Thanks!  It's a good feeling to know one was helpful :D

Quote
and here we have situation when core-rule-bookwise when the rigger wants to take the Jump he must reboot the RCC and the drone/vehicle.

No, I don't think that follows.  Because the vehicle merges into the rigger's persona, rather than the two icons joining into a new 3rd one, the rigger's persona is in effect unchanged before and after the jump-in.

Furthermore, the vehicle is not generating a persona at all.  If a rigger wants to switch from a commlink to a RCC (or from a RCC to a cyberdeck, or etc etc etc) THAT is an example of having to reboot the persona/matrix session.
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Xenon

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« Reply #6 on: <06-01-21/1139:42> »
You access the matrix via your RCC. Your persona is running on your RCC. You use matrix attributes from your RCC. You use the matrix condition of the RCC. If your persona take damage then the damage will be soaked by your RCC.

Once on the matrix you can take the matrix action Jump into rigged device to jump into a drone or vehicle that have a rigger interface (or someone else's drone or vehicle as long as you have 3 marks on it). Once jumped in the device icon of the drone (or vehicle) will vanish from the matrix and is replaced by your persona icon. You still only have 1 persona icon. You still access the matrix via your RCC. Your persona is running on your RCC. But now both you and the matrix icon of the drone (same thing as long as you are jumped into the drone) use matrix attributes of your RCC. If you (or the matrix icon of the drone, same thing while jumped in) take matrix damage then the matrix damage will be soaked by your RCC (the device you use to access the matrix with).

SR5 p. 241 Matrix Actions - Jump Into Rigged Device
you have to have three marks on the device you want to jump into, you have to be in VR, the device you want to jump into has to have a rigger adaptation, and you have to have a control rig. If you are the device’s owner, or the device’s owner has given you permission to jump into the device, you don’t need to make a test. In the Matrix, the icon of the device you jumped into becomes part of your persona.

SR5 p. 266 Matrix Damage
When you take Matrix damage, it goes to the first device you’re using for your persona, not the device you’re jumped into. If you used your commlink or rigger command console to enter VR before jumping in, your commlink or RCC (respectively) is the target of Matrix damage to your persona.



Having said that. You can also access the matrix by directly jump into a vehicle that have a rigger interface. This is handled by the non-matrix action Rigger Jump In (normally by attaching the cable from your control rig directly to the vehicle). This action is listed in the regular complex actions section (SR5 p. 167) and doesn't seem to require marks. In this special case you are accessing the matrix via the vehicle. Your persona is running on the vehicle. The vehicle is providing you with matrix attributes. Matrix damage that you (or the vehicle, same thing when you are jumped in) will in this case be soaked by the vehicle. Note that most vehicles have rather poor matrix attributes so in most cases you are better off accessing the matrix via your RCC instead (unless perhaps you are piloting a space ship or something similar bleeding edge type of vehicle).

SR5 p. 167 Complex Actions - Rigger Jump In
A character with a VCR and rigger adapted vehicle may jump in to control the vehicle with a Complex Action.

SR5 p. 266 Matrix Damage
If you’re directly connected to the vehicle you’re jumped into, the vehicle takes the Matrix damage.



...and here we have situation when core-rule-bookwise when the rigger wants to take the Jump he must reboot the RCC and the drone/vehicle.
Wait, what? No... there is still only one persona. You don't get a NEW persona when you take the jump. The device icon of the device you jump into is MERGED into your already EXISTING persona icon.

SR5 p. 266 Taking the Jump
From the Matrix, your icon and the device icon merge into a single icon. Usually, it’s just your icon there, but you can make it look like something else if you want separate icons indicating “you” and “you jumped into a rigged death machine.”
« Last Edit: <06-01-21/1246:39> by Xenon »