NEWS

Gun H(e)aven 3 Errata

  • 65 Replies
  • 19703 Views

WellsIDidIt

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 883
« Reply #60 on: <02-18-14/1324:47> »
I'm not trying to argue it should be different, just remarking that it's funny. :)

And it's weird you say don't go all 'realism' while trying to point out why the effect is potentially real.

It is actually very realistic. With a cased round you have a primer that pops then detonates the powder that propels the bullet. Gases escape out of the ejection port for the casing as well as from the rear of the gun if it uses a hammer (such as many Sig Sauer models).

With electronic firing, there is no need for an ejection port. Gas only escapes out the front of the barrel. With electronic firing there is also no need for an actual primer. You can electronically detonate the powder directly. Half the explosions.

If you're actually suppressing the weapon, you can actually catch all the escaping gases (instead of just most of them). Some guns don't make sense to be much quieter (revolvers for example), but most do.

BaronAtomy

  • *
  • Newb
  • *
  • Posts: 10
« Reply #61 on: <04-16-14/2029:28> »
It makes no sense considering the sound of a gunshot isn't released to the brass casing, but the explosive primer and gunpowder ignition.  It's just more crunch, which is OK since it's a pretty abstracted game.

  Howdy!  Ever shot subsonic .45?  Ever shot subsonic .45 through a can/silencer/suppressor?  The noise is from the (greatly muted) primary propellant and the hammer/slide mechanism.  It's pretty impressive.  While I've never been able to pick out the trigger among that, I could definitely see the benefits of reducing less mechanical parts.  If you could eliminate the slide, like with electric firing, it could be really impressive.

Calak

  • *
  • Newb
  • *
  • Posts: 3
« Reply #62 on: <05-04-14/0733:25> »
It makes no sense considering the sound of a gunshot isn't released to the brass casing, but the explosive primer and gunpowder ignition.  It's just more crunch, which is OK since it's a pretty abstracted game.

  Howdy!  Ever shot subsonic .45?  Ever shot subsonic .45 through a can/silencer/suppressor?  The noise is from the (greatly muted) primary propellant and the hammer/slide mechanism.  It's pretty impressive.  While I've never been able to pick out the trigger among that, I could definitely see the benefits of reducing less mechanical parts.  If you could eliminate the slide, like with electric firing, it could be really impressive.

i agree with this, though having never shot a suppressed gun (being canadian and all) it is of my understanding that 99% of the noise from a suppressed gun firing subsonic ammo is the action cycling (metal on metal at high speeds is loud).
removing the action would make the firearm nearly impossible to detect from any range, assuming a good suppressor/ammunition pair is used

SlowDeck

  • *
  • Ace Runner
  • ****
  • Posts: 1015
  • How do people add personal text under their name?
« Reply #63 on: <05-04-14/1154:05> »
Caseless ammo would likely make revolvers less effective. Which, in turn, means electronic firing would likely be a bad idea.

Take a good, long look at the reloading mechanism. The reason why it is that silencing a revolver has never worked, even with the possibility of eliminating the mechanical noise, is because the reloading mechanism created an area where the sound itself is actually going to escape via the revolving chamber. In general, gas has been prevented from escaping via the leftover case. That's why it is silencers don't work on revolvers in real life.

Now, imagine how much less effective revolvers would be using caseless ammunition, where it would be the propellant gas escaping via the revolving chamber... Probably talking a range reduction. The only way around this is to hermetically seal the revolving chamber, which even with Shadowrun's advancements is likely going to make reloading very difficult but will preserve the gun's range (meaning that it's more likely two or more complex actions just to get the revolving chamber open to reload it).

It is because of the above problems that, in real life, revolvers have been ruled out for using caseless ammunition.

And that is why we shouldn't let realism get in the way of playing the game  :P
« Last Edit: <05-04-14/1207:15> by SlowDeck »
"Speech" Spirit/"Astral" Thought/"Subvocal" Matrix/"Commlink" "Totem" [Time/Date] <<Text&email>>

JimmyCrisis

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 281
« Reply #64 on: <05-11-14/1901:49> »
Caseless ammo would likely make revolvers less effective. Which, in turn, means electronic firing would likely be a bad idea.

Take a good, long look at the reloading mechanism. The reason why it is that silencing a revolver has never worked, even with the possibility of eliminating the mechanical noise, is because the reloading mechanism created an area where the sound itself is actually going to escape via the revolving chamber. In general, gas has been prevented from escaping via the leftover case. That's why it is silencers don't work on revolvers in real life.

Now, imagine how much less effective revolvers would be using caseless ammunition, where it would be the propellant gas escaping via the revolving chamber... Probably talking a range reduction. The only way around this is to hermetically seal the revolving chamber, which even with Shadowrun's advancements is likely going to make reloading very difficult but will preserve the gun's range (meaning that it's more likely two or more complex actions just to get the revolving chamber open to reload it).

It is because of the above problems that, in real life, revolvers have been ruled out for using caseless ammunition.

And that is why we shouldn't let realism get in the way of playing the game  :P

This is an engineering problem, at best.  The russians have a working silenced revolver.  I wouldn't be able to tell you WHY they made it - your guess is as good as mine, but they have put a lot of research into silenced weapons.  The russian revolver works by sealing the gap as the cylinder turns and fires.  It's a pretty interesting weapon.

Similarly, creating a revolver that's built around firing caseless ammunition would present new challenges, but nothing that couldn't be overcome with ingenuity and funding.  Something like high-pressure disposable moon-clips comes to mind.

Here's the link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OTs-38_Stechkin_silent_revolver

White_Knight

  • *
  • Newb
  • *
  • Posts: 48
« Reply #65 on: <07-09-14/1531:26> »
All the Assault Rifles - The Colt Inception, the SBd-44, the Kreigfaust and the Monsoon, seem to be statted in SR5 with -1 AP, when all Assault rifles in SR5 Core book are statted at -2 AP