[FortMan]

Sorry if this sounds a little ranty. We just did SRM04-04: Smuggler's Blue, and we failed terribly.

Our group consisted of a dwarf rigger with 3-4 combat drones, a troll infiltration specialist, and me, a combat medic adept.

Accepting Dr. Craig's request, we arrived at the cabin. We did not make the Perception check (highest 3, which did not match 4). The ambush commenced with 1 boss (the cybered-up with horns), 4 acolytes, and 1 thug. First Initiative pass, I took a hit managed to down the main Aleph guy before being gun down before my turn at the second pass (only get one pass this fight). The rest of the guys had troubled hurting the rest of the Alpeh troops (so many soak dice), so eventually we had to flee, losing the mission. The rigger lost all his drones in the process.

Looking at the Actual Play result, it seems other groups managed to do it just fine. So what did we do wrong here? Was it just the dice hating us? How did you guys do this mission?

[wylie]

hmm
I never ran this with such a small group. Usually aleast 5 players each time.

Sounds like maybe the dice did not like you.

Guessing the dwarf rigger had guns on all the drones, with good software or good skills with jumped in.
stick & shock on Full Auto is not a GM's friend
Looks like you had no magic support. I don't consider adept as magic support, unless mystic adept. If you cannot cast spells or summon up spirits, you are magic support.
Troll sneaky got caught out in the open, I bet, unable to use his stealth?

how experiencd were the characters? one or two missions? been together since 04-01?
I am trying to get a picture of what all happen, without giving out spoilers.

oh, any reason why the GM didn't let you go back & sneak in, now knowing what to expect?
a chance to shadow the group that ambushed you?

[KarmaInferno]

My team handled it easily but some of that was Old Man Jones said, "Sleep", so about half the opposition decided to take naps.

Jones is very persuasive.



-k

[lurkeroutthere]

Walking into an ambush and getting caught flat footed is always going to hurt you. The first thing I would recommend is the drone rigger invest in a surveillance drone. Good speed, high loiter time, ruthinium polymer. All the bells and whistles. Send that drone ahead of the team by about 10 mins always. At the very least that will help forstall this sort of thing in the future or at the very least allow an additional test.

[KarmaInferno]

Also:
[spoiler]Remember to invest heavily in your network security, and have everyone toggle off and on their wireless every 15 minutes or so to kill slow hacking attempts. Set your nodes to only allow one Admin account and disable as many actions as is practical, too. Having a full set of sensors does no good if an enemy hacker has infiltrated your system, feeding you whatever sensor data he wants.[/spoiler]

[FortMan]

Looking back now, there were quite a few things we missed.

Sounds like maybe the dice did not like you.

That sure was a major part of it. And we did not have magic support, as our mage got to work IRL.

how experiencd were the characters? one or two missions? been together since 04-01?

The characters have been together since 4-01 , yes. The players are quite new, though. Only I have played before this season (season 2, and a bit of 3).

oh, any reason why the GM didn't let you go back & sneak in, now knowing what to expect?
a chance to shadow the group that ambushed you?

He did rushed thing a bit, using my perception check (3) I made to detect gangers sneaking on us during the trip, and didn't bring up sneaking in at all. It's "You traveled. You're at the shack. BAM ambush". In restrospect, I should have prompt for scouting.

By the time the fight is over, we weren't in any shape to do anything beside retreat. My character was at 1 box above permadeath, and the rigger lost all his combat drones.

Walking into an ambush and getting caught flat footed is always going to hurt you. The first thing I would recommend is the drone rigger invest in a surveillance drone. Good speed, high loiter time, ruthinium polymer. All the bells and whistles. Send that drone ahead of the team by about 10 mins always. At the very least that will help forstall this sort of thing in the future or at the very least allow an additional test.

The rigger does have surveillance drone. Unfortunately, he was new and didn't send the drone in first.

Oh well, we live and learn.

Now, a question I have about surprise and initiatives.

First, you roll initiative dice pool to determine surprise. Then, you roll initiative as normal to determine who go first, correct? Also, if you have surprise but go later than the target, you still (1) go later and (2) the target gets to react to you?

[wylie]

quote:
Now, a question I have about surprise and initiatives.

First, you roll initiative dice pool to determine surprise. Then, you roll initiative as normal to determine who go first, correct? Also, if you have surprise but go later than the target, you still (1) go later and (2) the target gets to react to you?

my reply: if the target is surprised, then the first round (surprise round) the target cannot attack you. No matter where he falls in the initiative line up. now, when that first real round of combat starts, its combat as normal.
Now the deep stuff: in the surprise round, if the surprise person Initiative is before yours, he may react defensively, ie, dodge/ block. if the surpsie person initiative is after you in the lineup, then he is "flatfooted" and cannot dodge or block your attack

on the mission, arriving at the location is how that scene starts. still, it possible to have drones setup, standard operating procedures. let the GM know you are ready for something, as in your are actively looking around.

magic support is always a plus.

[bmoham]

Walking into an ambush and getting caught flat footed is always going to hurt you. The first thing I would recommend is the drone rigger invest in a surveillance drone. Good speed, high loiter time, ruthinium polymer. All the bells and whistles. Send that drone ahead of the team by about 10 mins always. At the very least that will help forstall this sort of thing in the future or at the very least allow an additional test.

The thing is a drone isn't reliably going to get 4 hits, even tricked out. That threshold makes me think you're supposed to get ambushed.

Our group took a quick look in the cabin and fled the encounter. Used a smoke grenade or two to help.

[lurkeroutthere]

Nothing says that you can't use the drone to scan the site and look for ambushes yourself though. In fact it's generally regarded as a good idea. If your playing a rigger (which the groups has) 4 hits on most drone related tests is very possible especially since (and I'd need to verify this) the threshold would drop to 3 for rigging.

[bmoham]

Nothing says that you can't use the drone to scan the site and look for ambushes yourself though. In fact it's generally regarded as a good idea. If your playing a rigger (which the groups has) 4 hits on most drone related tests is very possible especially since (and I'd need to verify this) the threshold would drop to 3 for rigging.

Oh, I can build a character that has 16 dice on perception check, rigger or no. But that seems to be the exception - not the rule. And is takes some work if you're only using the main book. Most of the Missions I've been on have been pretty playable with the pregens in the book, or at least a well designed character from the main book. Which is why I said it seems like you're supposed to get ambushed. 16 dice isn't a pregen character. Not that an ambush is disaster, as long as the characters can handle the fight or the players (not characters) react quickly and retreat before it gets bad. But if you're outnumbered and ambushed it's likely to get bad pretty quickly. And a lot of players assume that any fight that gets thrown at them is one they're supposed to win.

Admittedly, if the threshold is supposed to drop from 4 to 3 if you're a rigger then the spot is a lot easier, and pretty much any rigger should be able to get that (assuming they are allowed to buy hits). But for other characters it's still a tough roll.

Also, it does seem like the group survived and should have been able to complete the adventure. I think there was something about a message triggering one for a specific player. Wouldn't that (or some other clue) still be there later?

On the whole I thought it was a fun adventure, and not that tough, but I had a full table and a number of very well designed characters. We fled the ambush, but probably could have fought our way out if we needed to.

[lurkeroutthere]

Well you are "supposed" to get ambushed for certain values. Ambushes are seldom fair, it's just a matter of are your skills or tactics good enough to offset the potential. I've seen highly experienced runner teams fail to spot the ambush and then get into a pretty knock down drag out fight with the ambushing party.

You should never be allowed to buy hits on spotting an ambush in my opinion.

[bmoham]

You should never be allowed to buy hits on spotting an ambush in my opinion.

I don't disagree, I was just using it as a rule of thumb for when you're reliably going to succeed, without actually breaking out my probability/statistics book.