[_-Target-_]

 
I am not sure this is the exactly right forum to post this in, but it seemed close enough..

 Hi guys, I am a new player to SR4, I played it 20 years ago nothing since..

Anyhow I am trying to get a solid grasp on how hacking really works, by that I mean step by step...

A detailed example, IE I am looking for xyz node, I attempt to log on, blah blah blah....

I don't think I get all of the interactions, and I don't think our GM does either.. They get combat to the nth degree, magic to some large extent too, but all to often he is like you have program x at 6, and system or response 6, roll your 12 dice, vs rate 4 and done.. not even system + firewall etc..

Last scenario I hacked 2 street samurai in about 2-3 Init passes, and just turned off their cyber... I am not bragging but it doesn't feel right..


I would love to find a step by step example or several such examples of people doing hacking runs... I had kind of hoped to find them in play by post but I think much of that happens in the private IM's to the GM..

This system is just not clicking for me, and I am by no means a power gamer.  I want to understand and play with and against the system as it is intended...

Also how fast does hacking on the fly go, I understand it sets off alarms and fires up defenses, but can you hack a street sam that fast?

And also what kinds of programs should I be running at all times on my com link?  I feel like I should have some kind of dry erase board showing what is loaded all the time so I can track response degradation etc...


Thanks for your help!

_-Target-_

[Chaemera]

In general, for a node that isn't operating in Hidden mode (page 223 of SR4A), you perform the following:

1. Access the Node, your Access ID determines the type of account you have access to. If this is some Sammie's comm-link that you're fighting, odds are you don't already have a real account, so you get dumped in the Public sector of the node (SR4A, pg. 225).

2. If you're in a hurry (because they're shooting at you, or your buddies), you then attempt to "Hack on the Fly" (SR4A, pg. 235), this is an extended Hacking +Exploit (target's Firewall, Complex Action) test. That is, each initiative pass, you build your Hacking (skill) + Exploit (program) die pool (+2 if in Hot Sim VR, -1 per previous test if your GM uses that rule). The threshold is equal to the target's Firewall, meet or beat that, and you're in. This gives you a User account (SR4A, pg. 225 again). For a Security account, increase the threshold by +3, for an admin account, it's +6 to the threshold (SR4A, pg. 235).
2.a. Each time you make your Hacking + Exploit test, the node rolls on an Analyze + Firewall (hacker's stealth, reflexive) extended test. If it gets there, whether or not your in, the node goes on alert (SR4A, pg. 238). What happens then is GM's call.

3. If you're not locked out, you now have access at the level appropriate to the account you choose back in step 2, exactly what that account can do is up to the GM to decide, but a few logical things present themselves. If you want to mess with the person's cyberware, you need to know if it's slaved to the comm-link, if not, then you still need to hack into that (good luck, thread here on that).
3.a. If it is slaved, and the GM agrees that you have the right type of account to give a command to the cyberware, see Unwired, pgs. 55 and 102 for more.

That's really about it, assuming no alerts, and alerts are largely in the GM realm once you trigger one. There's a lot of other things you could do, such as spoofing commands and the like, but I'll leave that for the matrix experts (and please, matrix experts, correct my simplified understanding shown above as necessary).

[_-Target-_]

Thanks Chaemera, I am kind of after "in general"  type stuff, the sam thing was just in reference to our most recent session...

If I hack on the fly and the node alerts what next? I mean do most people have IC on their com links?

I am hoping to find some threads of a step by step as  hacker goes about his business.. Although your post does help I have a better idea of what should have gone down in that fight at least lol...

[voydangel]

Here's a decent example of step-by-step wireless hacking. It's primarily about drones/riggers - but it's the same basic set up as with most anything else a node is a node is a node.

One thing to bear in mind is that although Chaemera give a really good example (kudos), there are alternative ways to do a lot of stuff in the matrix. Probing is one good example. Personally, I would recommend reading the core book matrix chapter 2 or 3 times to get it all down. The unwired book has a lot of neat stuff in it, but it's more along the lines of 'advanced and optional' so it is - as you said - a little confusing to start with that. Stick to the core until you're comfortable with the basics. Then start rummaging through the advanced stuff.

And to quote an old addage in the Shadowrun gaming community:
"If the GM doesn't know the Magic system very well, magic becomes more powerful."
"If the GM doesn't know the Matrix system very well, Hacking becomes less powerful."

So I would encourage you to work with you GM on this matter and maybe get together some time outside of game to just hang out and review/discuss the matrix rules, and how he/you want it to fit into the game.

[Chaemera]

Nice example in your link, voydangel, I've just emailed it to my party's technomancer (we're all fairly new to the game in my group).

And I wish my group were patient enough to let the technomancer probe a target (OP, this is on page 236 of SR4A), or do enough research to spoof commands to drones / comm-links (OP, pg 235, SR4A, again).

Can't agree more with voydangel, the best solution is to read, re-read, then read again for comprehension, The Wireless World (pgs 212 - 247, SR4A). Once you and your GM are comfortable with that, then start seriously looking at Unwired.

[voydangel]

Yea - spoofing is a whole other can of beans, I would recommend looking into it, it can be amazingly fun and fast paced, but you gotta know the guidelines 1st.

[Chaemera]

If I hack on the fly and the node alerts what next? I mean do most people have IC on their com links?

I am hoping to find some threads of a step by step as  hacker goes about his business.. Although your post does help I have a better idea of what should have gone down in that fight at least lol...

The problem with answering your question about Alerts is, it's GM Fiat what happens, the book lists examples (including IC), and makes recommendations, but the GM has to decide what the actual response to an Alert is. I had one guy where the alert launched a cheap-ass IC and then traced the hacker's signal to locate & identify. . . all so that Mr. Johnson (the person being hacked) could judge how good the team's matrix overwatch was.

Personally, I don't believe a lot of people are going to have IC on their comm-link (except a hacker or serious corporate suit), but your GM might decide it comes standard, loaded with Blackhammer, on every comm-link valued at 500¥ or more. I think terminating connection is the most likely / common Alert response on a commlink or simple node.

Corp sec nodes, expect black IC and spiders to come down on you HARD.

Here's a decent example of step-by-step wireless hacking. It's primarily about drones/riggers - but it's the same basic set up as with most anything else a node is a node is a node.

This remains the best example I see on the forum to date of hacking in action. Your other option is to read the book, carefully. Take notes, if that's your thing. And if you start showing that, per the rules, you can walk all over your GM's ill-conceived matrix security, he'll start learning himself. Of course, that's if a friendly "hey, dude, I think you're running this wrong" doesn't work.

My players can tell you, we've had that conversation in both directions plenty of times, a good GM will listen & take you seriously.

[Kontact]

Kontact's guide to Hacking on the Fly.

1) Hacking on the Fly is Brutal.  When you choose this action, you are running a portscan/bitflooder to bombard your target with access attempts in order to find a way in.

2)  As long as the device is still on, there is always a way in.  Even if you trigger an alert, that's only go to slow you down.  Sure your chosen mark knows that you're coming in, but damned if he can stop you short of turtling up and cutting off all access.  The +4 threshold isn't going to break you if you've got a specialist-level dicepool at your fingertips.  That's just one or two more seconds at most.

3)  So you have entry, now what?  Well, if you've managed to stay under the radar thus far you can act normally.  If you've triggered an alert, then your account is restricted and you must beat the node's system + firewall (still modified by the alert) with your hacking + exploit in order to affect anything on that node.  But, in doing this, you can take an action to cancel the alert against you.  Also, if you have the Mute program option, which delays the effect of an alert for a full CT, you can cancel the alert against you before it goes into effect, provided you have the access level.

4)  What's the worst that can happen?  Well, when you trigger an alert, your Matrix ID is lit up quite brightly.  Someone can begin tracing you even as you attempt to gain access.  This can result in orbital cow bombardment, so be wary.  Once you make it onto the node, any defenders present know that you're there and can immediately initiate cybercombat.  Any IC gains a Firewall bonus from the alert as well.  Also, once logged on during an alert, the system may well boot you.  Black IC is not really going to be a thing here, unless you're dealing with a tech-savy criminal/gang or deep corporate nodes.  As a GM I usually make the default action on standard comms a logoff action, which is a stalling ploy at best since a hacker can just spoof a new ID and fling himself right back at the firewall again.

Really, Unwired has a lot of good info hidden away inside its pages.  It's just a matter of finding the right section.

[voydangel]

...
Really, Unwired has a lot of good info hidden away inside its pages.  It's just a matter of finding the right section.

Care to recommend a few key sections to the class? I'm always interested to know what other people think are relevant/good. I tend to be biased and always consider my ideas as relatively decent, so it's always good to get a second opinion. 

[_-Target-_]

  Thanks Kontact, that was some good info on the flow, I am find getting the mechanics of this harder to grasp then real networking.. 

What kind of deafult programs should I just have on?  Do you guys think I need like a dry erase sheet or something to track how/what I am running at any point..?  I see hacker card sets out there, I don't get the point, and none of them include the stuff from unwired..

[etherial]

What kind of deafult programs should I just have on?  Do you guys think I need like a dry erase sheet or something to track how/what I am running at any point..?  I see hacker card sets out there, I don't get the point, and none of them include the stuff from unwired..

Start with Analyze and Biofeedback Filter. Then, look at the list of Matrix Actions that start on p. 228. Most of the Actions say System, which means any Commlink whatsoever is all you need. But any other action you want to do MUST have the required Program - there is no defaulting in the Matrix. In a way, Programs are like guns. You can buy as many as you want, but you can only wield so many. If you aren't currently Running a Program (and counting it against your Processor Limit), you can't take Actions that require it. That's what Hacker Cards are for - keeping track of which Programs you are running and therefore which Matrix Actions you can perform (as well as which Icons the NPC Hackers and Agents can Attack).

[voydangel]

I would say Stealth, Analyze, Reality Filter, Spoof, Exploit & Edit. In that order. So if you only have a system of 4, then Edit and Exploit would be the first 2 I would drop off the "permanently loaded" list. Biofeedback filter, Armor, and most everything else can be loaded on the fly when you need it. Also note that you can purchase each of these programs with the "ergonomic" program option (Unwired pg. 114) so that you can have them all loaded without taking up any "loaded program slots". Always a bonus. See pg. 222 SR4A for the processor limit rules, and the previously mentioned page in Unwired for program options (the Ergonomic option is a godsend).

[etherial]

I would say Stealth, Analyze, Reality Filter, Spoof, Exploit & Edit. In that order. So if you only have a system of 4, then Edit and Exploit would be the first 2 I would drop off the "permanently loaded" list. Biofeedback filter, Armor, and most everything else can be loaded on the fly when you need it. Also note that you can purchase each of these programs with the "ergonomic" program option (Unwired pg. 114) so that you can have them all loaded without taking up any "loaded program slots". Always a bonus. See pg. 222 SR4A for the processor limit rules, and the previously mentioned page in Unwired for program options (the Ergonomic option is a godsend).

Stealth. Yes. Brain fart. Some programs are never used to take Actions but still do stuff: Armor, ECCM, Reality Filter, Stealth.

[dashifen]

Stealth can be used to specifically hide from a targeted matrix perception test.  It becomes a Computer + Analyze vs. Hacking + Stealth test (p. 228 SR4a)

[_-Target-_]

I spoke to our GM, (we are on a holiday / out of town brake the next couple of weeks), I am going to be allowed to have already created ergonomic software for my Hacker, So I will use this list to ergo those 6 critical ones.  The GM didn't feel it was any deal at all since there is no in game cost other then time, and such.  I think he is trying to get a solid grasp on the Matrix stuff too.. 

I am thinking hard about making a sheet that has the programs in a grid with check boxes, and laminated it and using a dry erase, making some condition marker for number of total running programs etc.. sort of like the hacker cards but on one piece of paper, The hacker cards never seem to have the additional software from the unwired book on it.  Come to think of it I have found no SR assets for character creation that include the additional programs from unwired on the internet as of yet...