Shadowrun

Shadowrun Play => Character creation and critique => Topic started by: jacx7 on <10-14-19/2209:31>

Title: [SR6] Face / Mystic Adept
Post by: jacx7 on <10-14-19/2209:31>
Hoi Chummers,

I've given some thoughts into the concept of a mystic adept with shamanic tradition.
Because of charisma being the traditions main attribute, this character is also very well suited for the work as the face of a team of shadowrunners.
This is why I tried to push him in this direction with choice of qualities.

I think i fleshed out the rough stats, but will put further development into background story and such.

I will try to annotate my thought process while creation and why I made certain choices.

Let me know how you like the concept and your suggestions of how it could be further improved - or what essential gear I forgot to get!


Background

> is not yet quite warm with his magic capabilities but feels some kind of inherent power. feels he does not use his full potential.
> often had bad dreams of spirits in the past not knowing/realizing that he is actually visited by these spirits in his dreams.
> learns to know street shaman, getting lessons in shamanic traditions because shaman recognizes magic running through his veins.
> gets to know 'good' spirit on dream travel with newly found wisdom from shamanic lessons.
> mentor spirit: firebringer
> shaman friend gets beaten up badly by street gang for not paying protection/racketeering money.

> Joshua starts running the shadows to infiltrate & bring down the street gang on his own, longing for the burst of his inherent powers.
> Mentor Spirit questions his intentions and tries to teach him, how he can use his powers for good as well as helping his shamanic friend/mentor to get back on his feet.

Description

Name   Joshua Handar
Alias      Boil
Ethnicity   North/West European
Metatype   elf
Years Old   21
Sex      male
Height   1.9 m
Build      78 kg


Priorities

D   Metatype / 4 > 6 MAG & no need for higher rated Edge actions
A   Attributes / 24 > maximization of main attributes to possible maximum, 8 more points than B is more valuable early than +1 PP from Magic A imho
B   Magic / Mystic Adept(3) > 3 Powerpoints, Spells will be added after first run(s) because MystAdept can only gain PP through initiation and foci. edit: 1x2 Spells, 2 PP.
C   Skills / 20 > max out 3 skills since rating 5/6 are more valuable than low level in terms of karma investment.
E   Resources / 8000 > no need for much more, +4k from karma


Race   Elf > CH max = 8 > Influence/Con/Drain(Shaman)
Magic   Mystic Adept(3): 0 Spells | 3 PP edit: 1 Spells | 2 PP


Attributes

Base / Special / Attribute Points / Final Attribute
1 / 0 / 4 /    5   Body
1 / 0 / 5 /    6   Agility
1 / 0 / 0 /    1   Reaction
1 / 0 / 1 /    1   Strength
1 / 0 / 4 /    5   Willpower
1 / 0 / 0 /    1   Logic
1 / 0 / 4 /    5   Intuition
1 / 0 / 7 /    8   Charisma
         
1 / 1 / 0 /    2   Edge
3 / 3 / 0 /    6   Magic

6.0      Essence
6+1d6   Initiative


Positive/Negative Qualities: 70 spent / 22 gained

   Low-Light Vision(Racial)

+12   Aptitude(Sorcery)
+12   First Impression
+36   Focued Concentration(3) > Concept wraps around this Quality by granting oneself or members of the team the upper hand with Increase/Decrease Attribute and other sustained spells.
+10   Mentor Spirit(Fire-Bringer)

-10   Astral Beacon
-12   Spirit Bane


Skills

lvl   Pool   Skill
6   (12)   Close Combat
1   (09)   Influence
6   (11)   Perception
7   (13)   Sorcery

> no specialism - it stays 5 karma in the future, so no need right now. Use skill points to max out
> 1 influence for negotiation = no -1 penalty on test for untrained test


Language & Knowledge Skills

English (N)
Sprawl Life


Adept Powers (3/3) edit: (2/3)

1   Astral Perception
.5   Enhanced Perception
.5   Voice Control
.25   Kinesics
.25   Mystic Armour
.5   Spell Resistance



Spells (0/3) edit: (1/3)

edit:
+Increase Attribute
+Increase Reflexes

> Get Spell "Increase Attribute" as soon as possible!
Boil tries to find a way to abolish his own and others weaknesses by using magic.



Totems

Fire-bringer - Adept: Sorcery +1, Edge Boosts on Influence cost 1 less > 3 Edge Boost possible for Influence tests.


Contacts

Connection / Loyalty - Type

5 / 5 - Talismonger
4 / 4 - Shaman Instructor
4 / 3 - Fixer
4 / 2 - Hotel Owner
3 / 2 - Puff Mama
2 / 1 - Chauffeur
2 / 1 - Street Doc
2 / 1 - Green War Terrorist
2 / 1 - Lawyer

8 / 6 - Shaman Instructor
8 / 6 - Fixer
6 / 4 - Street Doc
6 / 4 - Dealer


Equipment

900      Remaining Nuyen > probably some juggling required to get required items for lodge(learning spells) and sorcery license(before learning first spell)


7500   Fake SIN rtg. 3
2000   Lifestyle: Low

350      Katana
20      Knife

900      Lined Coat

200      Contacts
+25      Image Link

100      Meta Link

5      Credstick(Standard)


Karma Expenditure 

+50      Starting karma
- 0      Racial Costs
-70      Qualities
+22      Negative Qualities
- 0      Attributes
- 0      Skills
- 2      Resources
0      Remaining


EDIT HISTORY:
edit(191014): Mystic Adept SP/PP ratio & spells
edit(191016): contacts
Title: Re: [SR6] Face / Mystic Adept
Post by: Stainless Steel Devil Rat on <10-14-19/2216:16>
Adepts are kind of in a rough spot right now.  Since you gain Power Points with increases to Magic post-chargen but not during chargen, there's virtually no reason to increase MAG and a very fragging good reason not to:  If you stayed with 3 MAG from your priority, then after character generation you could increase from 3 to 4 for only 20 karma vs 35 karma to go from 6 to 7.

If you don't think you need more than 2 EDG, I'd spend those 3 SAPs you spent on MAG in AGI and/or CHA, and then use the 3 attribute points you didn't have to spend there on REA.


EDIT:  NM, I missed that you were playing a Mystic Adept.  I thought you were playing a regular Adept.  I know, who would, right? :D  As a MysAd: it's pretty meta-gamey and nonsensical that you have epic spellcasting skill but no known spells and the ability to summon spirits yet no skill at THAT.   Or take away 1 PP worth of Adept Powers to at least start with the one spell that's central to your concept.
Title: Re: [SR6] Face / Mystic Adept
Post by: jacx7 on <10-14-19/2221:57>
Yeah, raised Magic to 6 in anticipation for the incoming spells :D

edit: for a 'usual' Adept i totally agree with you, even no need to get higher prio than D for magic.

Isn't it the logical consequence that you basically have to get spells after creation because they errated that you can't karma-buy PP?
Title: Re: [SR6] Face / Mystic Adept
Post by: Stainless Steel Devil Rat on <10-14-19/2300:04>
Yeah, raised Magic to 6 in anticipation for the incoming spells :D

edit: for a 'usual' Adept i totally agree with you, even no need to get higher prio than D for magic.

Isn't it the logical consequence that you basically have to get spells after creation because they errated that you can't karma-buy PP?

it's only logical in a metagame sense.  Arguably so, even at that.  Because you don't HAVE to split your Magic 3/0.  You could have gone 2/1 and picked at least 1 spell.

In-universe, how on earth did you get 7 ranks in sorcery when you don't even know any spells?  THAT part is illogical :D
Title: Re: [SR6] Face / Mystic Adept
Post by: jacx7 on <10-14-19/2325:09>
Good point, I'll add this because you are essentially right. The main mechanic should indeed be implemented from the start - if possible.

edit: and of course your other points are correct and reasonable as well :P
Title: Re: [SR6] Face / Mystic Adept
Post by: Michael Chandra on <10-15-19/0054:06>
*cough*Counterspelling*cough*perfect excuse*cough*

Of course you also have Focused Concentration so...

Your contacts have really high connection ratings, given how state politicians are 6~7 and mid-level execs in big Corps are like a 9. On the other hand, you're not a Face, so you don't have to spread them out as much.

I do think Connection 6 for a Street Doc is rather high, and the same applies to an Arms Dealer. If we look at SR5 for comparison, the default Connection of both is 4, so yours are rather high. Maybe it'd make more sense to have them 4/6 instead of 6/4?
Title: Re: [SR6] Face / Mystic Adept
Post by: jacx7 on <10-15-19/0256:36>
*cough*Counterspelling*cough*perfect excuse*cough*

Of course you also have Focused Concentration so...

Your contacts have really high connection ratings, given how state politicians are 6~7 and mid-level execs in big Corps are like a 9. On the other hand, you're not a Face, so you don't have to spread them out as much.

I do think Connection 6 for a Street Doc is rather high, and the same applies to an Arms Dealer. If we look at SR5 for comparison, the default Connection of both is 4, so yours are rather high. Maybe it'd make more sense to have them 4/6 instead of 6/4?

Thanks, will work that section about connection ratings in. I don't have a feeling yet for 'the right' ratings but will go with your suggestion for now!
This also gives me the opportunity to diversify my network of connections.

>you're not a Face
What would qualify a character as a face?
What would I have to change to become the face?
I've had the impression the face would be the 'walk in and talk people into doing something' guy.
Sure with a broad network you can become a information gathering machine on a whole new level, which adds a nice touch to being well informed before walking in.

Title: Re: [SR6] Face / Mystic Adept
Post by: Michael Chandra on <10-15-19/0305:17>
For Faces, part is dicepool, part is focus. At your Charisma, a single skillrank is already quite nice, so it's a nice secondary role. But your main focus is support-mage and kicking ass, which is what your skills went into.

Then again, if you spend 15 karma after chargen for 1 rank in Con and 1 specialization in each of the social skills, you'll already be at 11 dice and you can add Increase Charisma to yourself for 15 dice as well... So you can easily go for being the primary negotiator / bullshitter with this setup.

In comparison, my current Facebuild is at 6 Charisma, 5 Con/Influence, 3 Used Tailored Pheromones = 14 dice, and that's a Street Level character.
Title: Re: [SR6] Face / Mystic Adept
Post by: jacx7 on <10-15-19/0352:18>
Yeah, was planning to use the increase attribute for my face adventures aswell.

= CH 12 + Influence 1 = 13
specialization makes an easy Pool of 15 for just 5 karma.
CON Pool of 15 will be an additional 10 karma, since it was not yet raised in favour of Sorcery 7.

For first encounters i can make use of 5 Edge (2 Base, 1 Mentor Spirit, 2 First Impression) .. or did I misread this part and only "gain" 2 edge on first encounter?

After Initiating for the first Powerpoint, which is probably the first Initiation, Kinesics is back, also granting Edge on Social tests.

Sure, all the way up it will become expensive when you want to get Influence up to 9, starting from 1.
I think there is quite some potential and versatility but I first have to run some games with this char to make a final statement :)

Title: Re: [SR6] Face / Mystic Adept
Post by: Michael Chandra on <10-15-19/0531:26>
Your first meeting with someone gains you 2 Edge from the quality, on top of any other gains. It's only a one-time gain, so not each 'turn'.
Title: Re: [SR6] Face / Mystic Adept
Post by: jacx7 on <10-15-19/0611:13>
ah, well it's a nice thing to have.

At least I always start off a confrontation with an unknown person with at least 2 edge. Unfortunately 'Bring the Drama' is Con.
But thats only a mediocre problem for the first runs.
Title: Re: [SR6] Face / Mystic Adept
Post by: Ajax on <10-15-19/0637:41>
Most meetings with "Mr. Johnson" or "Tanaka-san" will be a first meeting, in my experience.

In fact, it's been my experience that the team usually only meets with Mr. Johnson twice infrequently -- hiring the team for the `run, then meeting again for delivery.  Very rarely do you need to meet with Mr. Johnson more often than that... and those are usually babysitting missions where Mr. Johnson is hiring you to be his bodyguard.
Title: Re: [SR6] Face / Mystic Adept
Post by: jacx7 on <10-15-19/0823:30>
Yeah, but it's actually not the first meeting of the run but CRB p.71
Quote
You gain 2 Edge for Social Tests during your first meeting with anyone, and both your Heat and Reputation are ignored for this first encounter.
highlight by me
Title: Re: [SR6] Face / Mystic Adept
Post by: Michael Chandra on <10-15-19/0830:12>
Not many Johnsons are repeat customers, though.
Title: Re: [SR6] Face / Mystic Adept
Post by: Ajax on <10-15-19/0834:26>
Yeah, but it's actually not the first meeting of the run but CRB p.71
Quote
You gain 2 Edge for Social Tests during your first meeting with anyone, and both your Heat and Reputation are ignored for this first encounter.
highlight by me

You misunderstood what I wrote. I meant to say that most meetings with "Mr. Johnson" will be a first meeting with that person. It's pretty rare to have the same "Mr. Johnson" hire a team twice...

...and if they are coming to you for repeat business, chances are (s)he was so satisfied with your previous work that there won't be a need to really pile on with the Influence [Negotiation] rolls.
Title: Re: [SR6] Face / Mystic Adept
Post by: Hobbes on <10-15-19/1225:48>

Your contacts have really high connection ratings, given how state politicians are 6~7 and mid-level execs in big Corps are like a 9. On the other hand, you're not a Face, so you don't have to spread them out as much.

I do think Connection 6 for a Street Doc is rather high, and the same applies to an Arms Dealer. If we look at SR5 for comparison, the default Connection of both is 4, so yours are rather high. Maybe it'd make more sense to have them 4/6 instead of 6/4?

Street Doc to the Stars.  Runs a private, cutting edge clinic for an exclusive list of clients.  Of course they can do Deltaware combat Augmentations.  Those celebs need to be able fend off hostile extraction attempts and still do love scenes/cheesecake/beefcake shots. 

Arms Dealer Connection Rating 6... someone somewhere is able to sell black market fighter jets and tanks to "Freedom Fighters".  You know them.  Mind you, asking such a connection to pick you up a new Gas Vent system is a little petty for them, but whattagonnado?  Basically Nicholas Cage's character from Lord of War. 

Connections are all about the story.

But I do recommend "Street Level" connections as well, especially when you've got so many points to spend on Connections. 
Title: Re: [SR6] Face / Mystic Adept
Post by: Stainless Steel Devil Rat on <10-15-19/1229:38>
Indeed. You're the Face, you should know someone to help with most foreseeable issues.  Be your team's own Fixer, and save everyone paying finder's fees to a NPC Fixer...
Title: Re: [SR6] Face / Mystic Adept
Post by: jacx7 on <10-15-19/1554:00>
Wow, thanks! Those examples were even more eye-opening for what I did there.. wich is probably not nescessary.
Will develop some Street level connections but also upper class probably. We'll see what I find to be valuable and give you an update in the next days.

Don't have the time right now for an update but hopefully can deliver after giving some thought into it.

So far it was a really comprehensive critique of you guys! Thank you.
Title: Re: [SR6] Face / Mystic Adept
Post by: Ajax on <10-15-19/1617:17>
I’ve always found it helpful to have some of my Contacts know some of my other Contacts. It not only makes them feel like a more organic network of friends and acquaintances, but it also gives the GM something to weave into missions.

Do you have a Bartender contact? Have a Police Detective contact too? Guess where the cop goes to have a cold one after a hard day on the streets looking for stolen mnemonic augmentations....

Do you have a Salaryman mid-level executive contact? Have a Street Doc too? Guess where your Salaryman got those new (“gently used, one careful owner”) mnemonic upgrades to help give him an edge over his rival for that big promotion and guess who rents your Doc his off the books office space in an otherwise mothballed storage facility....
Title: Re: [SR6] Face / Mystic Adept
Post by: PatrolDeer on <10-15-19/1757:38>
Be extremely careful about any skilled grapplers and sword fighters out there. They have a threshold of 1 (your current strength) to strip you off your weapon or get you wrapped up in a rear naked choke and break your neck.

Grappling an opponent:
Close Combat + Agility, net hits are added to follow up test, Attackers Strength attribute + net hits vs your Strength attribute, success means your character is restrained and gets -4 dice pool on Defence tests (Magic abilities can be used while being grappled). ALL subsequent attacker are getting an edge against you!

Damaging a restrained opponent is:
Attacker rolls Close Combat + Strength vs your character's Strength + Reaction. Your character also suffers -4 dice pool for being restrained. Attacker does Str/2 ' + net hits in Damage. Even if you have max + 4 bonus on Reaction, you still end up with a 2d6 to defend. Ouch! There is this pure evil tone in my voice as I will force you to re-roll your soak roll  :o

Here I would like to ask Dev team for clarification, as Break free action does not have specified against what the restrained character rolls, but I assume it's Restrained character's Close Combat + Strength (using Unarmed Attack rating) vs Opponent's Close Combat + Strength (and of course their Defence rating).  So a 7 die chance to get out of the choke. Grim.

Wrest action (2 edge): After successful Block action, Defender rolls Close Combat + Agility vs Attacker's (your character's) Strength attribute as a threshold. If the Defender equals the threshold, the weapon falls to the ground, if the Defender gets more hits, he takes the weapon from the attacker (your character). "Hey that is a fancy sword, I think I will take that from you."

Without a weapon, and magical augmentation, you will deal 1S base damage and you'll have Unarmed attack rating of 2.

Sure, you can increase your own Strength, but if that is the only way to fix the situation, Murphy's law dictates that that option will be denied. Also, if you are sustaining Increase reaction AND Increase strength, you have one free sustain on your teammate. That kinda defeats the 36 karma investment of Focused Concentration in my eyes and since you are a spell caster, geek the mage first applies to you too.

I mean no offence brother. I really like the concept of Mystic Social Adept. It has some good synergies, but going into close combat without strength is almost a suicide.
Title: Re: [SR6] Face / Mystic Adept
Post by: Hobbes on <10-16-19/0636:48>
If a dedicated Brawler decides to Pancake the Face, the Face is in trouble.  Str  2 or even 3 isn't going to change that by much.  I wouldn't bother with an Escape check, I'd have a Spirit use a power or blast away with spells (someday) or something. 
Title: Re: [SR6] Face / Mystic Adept
Post by: jacx7 on <10-16-19/1314:35>
Be extremely careful about any skilled grapplers and sword fighters out there. They have a threshold of 1 (your current strength) to strip you off your weapon or get you wrapped up in a rear naked choke and break your neck.

Grappling an opponent:
Close Combat + Agility, net hits are added to follow up test, Attackers Strength attribute + net hits vs your Strength attribute, success means your character is restrained and gets -4 dice pool on Defence tests (Magic abilities can be used while being grappled). ALL subsequent attacker are getting an edge against you!

Damaging a restrained opponent is:
Attacker rolls Close Combat + Strength vs your character's Strength + Reaction. Your character also suffers -4 dice pool for being restrained. Attacker does Str/2 ' + net hits in Damage. Even if you have max + 4 bonus on Reaction, you still end up with a 2d6 to defend. Ouch! There is this pure evil tone in my voice as I will force you to re-roll your soak roll  :o

Here I would like to ask Dev team for clarification, as Break free action does not have specified against what the restrained character rolls, but I assume it's Restrained character's Close Combat + Strength (using Unarmed Attack rating) vs Opponent's Close Combat + Strength (and of course their Defence rating).  So a 7 die chance to get out of the choke. Grim.

Wrest action (2 edge): After successful Block action, Defender rolls Close Combat + Agility vs Attacker's (your character's) Strength attribute as a threshold. If the Defender equals the threshold, the weapon falls to the ground, if the Defender gets more hits, he takes the weapon from the attacker (your character). "Hey that is a fancy sword, I think I will take that from you."

Without a weapon, and magical augmentation, you will deal 1S base damage and you'll have Unarmed attack rating of 2.

Sure, you can increase your own Strength, but if that is the only way to fix the situation, Murphy's law dictates that that option will be denied. Also, if you are sustaining Increase reaction AND Increase strength, you have one free sustain on your teammate. That kinda defeats the 36 karma investment of Focused Concentration in my eyes and since you are a spell caster, geek the mage first applies to you too.

I mean no offence brother. I really like the concept of Mystic Social Adept. It has some good synergies, but going into close combat without strength is almost a suicide.

Yeah, the Points in AGI and Close Combat are merely to have anything to Defend if engaged in close combat not really attacking or putting out damage.

Break Free Action to me looks like it is no opposed test which would mean you only have to score 1 net hit out of 7 dice.
If it is an opposed test I would argue that you roll [Close Combat + STR] vs. [STR], since this is the roll required to grapple one in the first place. This is a tough task by itself!
But adding the attackers Close Combat & (!) DR... nowhere in the grappling Rules DR is mentioned so why would it now?
edit: after giving some thought it could aso be [Close Combat + STR] (grappler STR) so 7 dice against a threshhold of 6+ ... wait. this is quite OP

edit to adress other posts:
Best reaction on a skilled grappler engaging would be to talk him out of it .. or run if no other option. Sadly this character won't be able to get spirits to help him, because he can only use on class of magic as a mystic adept (spells in this case) but he could totally use these spells. Realised this was the Aspected Magicians section.


Does the skilled grappler also have a super low attribute? Decrease Attribute - BOOM - sleeping on the floor.

As an Example:
Sioux Wildcat Combat Specialist, Professional Rating 10, Logic = 4
The caster rolls a Sorcery (7) + Magic (6) vs. Willpower (5) + Logic (4) > 13 vs 9

Well in avereage you gain 1 net hit.. so probably should use something else for these enemies...

edit after rereading the following section:
Sure, you can increase your own Strength, but if that is the only way to fix the situation, Murphy's law dictates that that option will be denied. Also, if you are sustaining Increase reaction AND Increase strength, you have one free sustain on your teammate. That kinda defeats the 36 karma investment of Focused Concentration in my eyes and since you are a spell caster, geek the mage first applies to you too.

I put together this table to see what each (!) Increase Attribute (+4) gains any character at an invest of 12 Karma.

Base  -    -    -    -    1    2    3    4    5    6    7    8 
Raise Target  1    2    3    4    5    6    7    8    9    10    11    12 
cost of "Raise Target" Raise in Karma  5    10    15    20    25    30    35    40    45    50    55    60 
Sum of Karma for 4 Level Raise  5    15    30    50    70    90    110    130    150    170    190    210 

If a character has an Attribute of 1 she "gains" 70 karma, as long as the spell is sustained.
If a character has an Attribute of 6 she "gains" 170 karma, as long as the spell is sustained.

If a character has 2 Attributes of 5 and 1 Attribute of 6, investing/sustaining 3 Increased Attribute spells on these gains the character a maximum of 470 karma, given that he does not have any other augmentations on these Attributes.

The 3*12 karma is a great invest looking at these numbers.

The only case in which it would be a worse exchange is only getting one net hit (which is almost impossible at 6 essence, because you get 1 auto hit) WHILE raising Base Attribute of 1.
Title: Re: [SR6] Face / Mystic Adept
Post by: easl on <10-16-19/1448:21>
In-universe, how on earth did you get 7 ranks in sorcery when you don't even know any spells?  THAT part is illogical :D

Illogical in a RL sense, but happens all the time in action adventure type stories. Call it the Luke Skywalker build: one day you're a farm kid, the next you're fighting the preeminent (former) jedi in the galaxy to a standstill.  It just take a montage! :)  "The force is strong with this one" might as well be in-game code for:
"You spent all your points on Magic and Sorcery, and didn't buy any spells?"
"Oh I'll buy those after session 2"

Title: Re: [SR6] Face / Mystic Adept
Post by: CigarSmoker on <10-16-19/1454:53>
As an Example:
Sioux Wildcat Combat Specialist, Professional Rating 10, Logic = 4
The caster rolls a Sorcery (7) + Magic (6) vs. Willpower (5) + Logic (4) > 13 vs 9

Well in avereage you gain 1 net hit.. so probably should use something else for these enemies...

PR 10 Mage is really a bad example. He has Magic 10 that means his "Boosted Defense" Major Action lasts 10 Combat Rounds (p.143) so he will probably have that active unless the GM does not know what he is doing (poor NPCs then ^^)
Magic 10 means that the Sioux Wildcat is Initate Rank 4, meaning he has probably Shielding Metamagic further strenghtening the Boosted Defense (not listed tough, would be too complicated for a "Mook") but has not taken Shielding (poor Mook)

Further the Professional Rating 10 means the Sioux Wildcat has 10 Edge Dice to reroll Dice with for example ^^

And last but not least 10 Magic and Conjuring 8 (with a Specialisation an Expertise for Fire Spirits only, poor Mook) means he has 21 Dice for Summoning Fire Spirits. With his 10 Edge probably 2x Force 12 ;) so you might have other problems then.

Better compare with PR 5 Mage ^^

Btw: I think the sample enemies are meant to be changed by the GM to adapt them for different Organisations they work for. So a different PR 10 Mage could have Shielding Metamagic instead of Quickening. Increase Attribute Spell instead of one the many Combat Spells and so on
Title: Re: [SR6] Face / Mystic Adept
Post by: jacx7 on <10-16-19/1531:12>
As an Example:
Sioux Wildcat Combat Specialist, Professional Rating 10, Logic = 4
The caster rolls a Sorcery (7) + Magic (6) vs. Willpower (5) + Logic (4) > 13 vs 9

Well in avereage you gain 1 net hit.. so probably should use something else for these enemies...

PR 10 Mage is really a bad example. He has Magic 10 that means his "Boosted Defense" Major Action lasts 10 Combat Rounds (p.143) so he will probably have that active unless the GM does not know what he is doing (poor NPCs then ^^)
Magic 10 means that the Sioux Wildcat is Initate Rank 4, meaning he has probably Shielding Metamagic further strenghtening the Boosted Defense (not listed tough, would be too complicated for a "Mook") but has not taken Shielding (poor Mook)

Further the Professional Rating 10 means the Sioux Wildcat has 10 Edge Dice to reroll Dice with for example ^^

And last but not least 10 Magic and Conjuring 8 (with a Specialisation an Expertise for Fire Spirits only, poor Mook) means he has 21 Dice for Summoning Fire Spirits. With his 10 Edge probably 2x Force 12 ;) so you might have other problems then.

Better compare with PR 5 Mage ^^

Btw: I think the sample enemies are meant to be changed by the GM to adapt them for different Organisations they work for. So a different PR 10 Mage could have Shielding Metamagic instead of Quickening. Increase Attribute Spell instead of one the many Combat Spells and so on

yeah, you can't compete with the Shamanic Support. Thats true indeed. This is entirely different though as she would probably not try to grapple the Adept .. which she totally could do with her Close Combat 7 + STR 4  :o


Looking at the rating 5 Mage as you suggested, (Lone Star Combat Mage, WIL4, STR2) means 13 vs 6 dice with avg 2 net hits.

But of course first you would have to find out which attribute actually is the lowest of your target.
Can you do this with assensing?
Title: Re: [SR6] Face / Mystic Adept
Post by: CigarSmoker on <10-16-19/1556:35>
yeah, you can't compete with the Shamanic Support. Thats true indeed. This is entirely different though as she would probably not try to grapple the Adept .. which she totally could do with her Close Combat 7 + STR 4  :o


Looking at the rating 5 Mage as you suggested, (Lone Star Combat Mage, WIL4, STR2) means 13 vs 6 dice with avg 2 net hits.

But of course first you would have to find out which attribute actually is the lowest of your target.
Can you do this with assensing?

There is a table in the book what you can see with assening - i would say seeing which Physical Attribute is the lowest would be the Major Action "Observe in Detail" and then Perception + Logic (seeing patterns).
But you could always make an educated guess :)
Title: Re: [SR6] Face / Mystic Adept
Post by: PatrolDeer on <10-16-19/1801:55>
Yeah, the Points in AGI and Close Combat are merely to have anything to Defend if engaged in close combat not really attacking or putting out damage.

Break Free Action to me looks like it is no opposed test which would mean you only have to score 1 net hit out of 7 dice.
If it is an opposed test I would argue that you roll [Close Combat + STR] vs. [STR], since this is the roll required to grapple one in the first place. This is a tough task by itself!
But adding the attackers Close Combat & (!) DR... nowhere in the grappling Rules DR is mentioned so why would it now?
edit: after giving some thought it could aso be [Close Combat + STR] (grappler STR) so 7 dice against a threshhold of 6+ ... wait. this is quite OP
Best reaction on a skilled grappler engaging would be to talk him out of it .. or run if no other option.

Does the skilled grappler also have a super low attribute? Decrease Attribute - BOOM - sleeping on the floor.

The 3*12 karma is a great invest looking at these numbers.

Yeah I understand that every build has a counter to it and I did not want my contribution to sound like I despise your build. I don't, as I said Mystic Social Adept has some good synergies there, and I was thinking about making one myself.
That being said, I didn't know that you wouldn't use you character to attack, but rather to defend. Even though, grapplers and streetfighters are super dangerous threat.

On the other hand, I guess you will have no problem with a touch attack (decrease attribute) if you are in a grapple  ::) that is clever !

I know that increase attribute is a solid tactic and possess a lot of benefits ( same as decrease) my point was that if you want to contribute to the fight you will have to buff yourself first in order to have some safety, which takes away the utility you provide for the team.

For example by using athletics, you could throw knives, shurikens(with high agility, you can palm them in your other hand and use multiple attacks action), grenades (needs strength), shoot bows (needs strength) and crossbows (no strength,injection bolts are a thing, later some enchanted bolts for delivering long range decrease attribute can come in handy) in addition to running, swimming, climbing (they also need strength) or escaping.

I feel that it is somewhat higher overall utility than close combat, especially if you have a specific build oriented towards boosting attributes. But it is a highly subjective topic and depends on context of your character and the environment.
Title: Re: [SR6] Face / Mystic Adept
Post by: jacx7 on <10-17-19/0828:05>
Yeah, the Points in AGI and Close Combat are merely to have anything to Defend if engaged in close combat not really attacking or putting out damage.

Break Free Action to me looks like it is no opposed test which would mean you only have to score 1 net hit out of 7 dice.
If it is an opposed test I would argue that you roll [Close Combat + STR] vs. [STR], since this is the roll required to grapple one in the first place. This is a tough task by itself!
But adding the attackers Close Combat & (!) DR... nowhere in the grappling Rules DR is mentioned so why would it now?
edit: after giving some thought it could aso be [Close Combat + STR] (grappler STR) so 7 dice against a threshhold of 6+ ... wait. this is quite OP
Best reaction on a skilled grappler engaging would be to talk him out of it .. or run if no other option.

Does the skilled grappler also have a super low attribute? Decrease Attribute - BOOM - sleeping on the floor.

The 3*12 karma is a great invest looking at these numbers.

Yeah I understand that every build has a counter to it and I did not want my contribution to sound like I despise your build. I don't, as I said Mystic Social Adept has some good synergies there, and I was thinking about making one myself.
That being said, I didn't know that you wouldn't use you character to attack, but rather to defend. Even though, grapplers and streetfighters are super dangerous threat.

On the other hand, I guess you will have no problem with a touch attack (decrease attribute) if you are in a grapple  ::) that is clever !

I know that increase attribute is a solid tactic and possess a lot of benefits ( same as decrease) my point was that if you want to contribute to the fight you will have to buff yourself first in order to have some safety, which takes away the utility you provide for the team.

For example by using athletics, you could throw knives, shurikens(with high agility, you can palm them in your other hand and use multiple attacks action), grenades (needs strength), shoot bows (needs strength) and crossbows (no strength,injection bolts are a thing, later some enchanted bolts for delivering long range decrease attribute can come in handy) in addition to running, swimming, climbing (they also need strength) or escaping.

I feel that it is somewhat higher overall utility than close combat, especially if you have a specific build oriented towards boosting attributes. But it is a highly subjective topic and depends on context of your character and the environment.

No offence taken. It's just a really bad habit of me to instantly defend my opinions before reconsidering someone elses ideas..
Title: Re: [SR6] Face / Mystic Adept
Post by: PatrolDeer on <10-17-19/1204:30>
No offence taken. It's just a really bad habit of me to instantly defend my opinions before reconsidering someone elses ideas..

I tend to be pretty straight forward too. We all have bad habits I guess  :)