Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => Gear => Topic started by: Chaemera on <01-24-11/2126:56>
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Okay, Arsenal, page 103 has a section titled "Operational Time", which discusses how long vehicles can operate without refueling. There's also the "Additional Gas Tank" mod and "Multi-Fuel Engine" which all work at increasing your operation time or allowing you access to more types of fuel.
My question, does anyone have any ideas as to what a gallon (or an hour, since fuel is described in terms of time, not distance or gallons in Arsenal) of gas costs in 2070's Shadowrun?
Or, is this something you prefer, as a GM to ignore / handwave / treat as a story item? Do you lump it in with lifestyle?
Alternatively, have I managed to miss a blatantly obvious "Gas, Availability --, 5 nuyen /liter" entry somewhere?
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Well, if you missed it then I've missed it as well.
Since it's in hours, and assuming gas millage is really good even for all-internal-combustion so that everything is making 100 km per hour then say one gallon/4 liters = 100 km and just to make things ugly I'd say 10¥ per gallon of gas, hybrids cost 1/2 that, and all electric costs 1/5 (meaning they cost that because it takes two hours for a hybrid to use one gallon, etc.). Or something like that. I'd have to take a longer look at things (books not at hand and all that). Alright, yeah, I'm making this up on the fly, throwing it out there, and seeing the reaction it gets. 10¥ for a gallon of gas. :)
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Is there anything in the book that actually says these vehicles run on gasoline? It is the future after all, surely the world of shadowrun has upgraded to something fancier. That might be why everything is measured in hours rather than gallons.
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It's all supposed to be abstracted and in the background. It's Shadowrun, not Mundane Life.
-k
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It's all supposed to be abstracted and in the background. It's Shadowrun, not Mundane Life.
My only problem with that approach is... why bother having an "Additional Fuel Tank" mod (Arsenal, pg. 131) for vehicles? And why tell me that I'll run out of fuel in 6 hours if I'm off-grid (Arsenal, pg. 103). Yeah, the rules can still basically be used to keep players from being in an infinitely long car chase, or using their drones indefinitely, but when I tell the runners they need to refuel, they're gonna ask for a price tag. So, I either come up with one, or I completely ignore fuel limits, at which point a plethora of mods (Multi-fuel engine, additional fuel tank, improved economy, off the top of my head) which had clear game implications become utter fluff.
And certainly, an operational time of 6 hours, even if you gave hard rules, with clear fuel costs, would still be "background" on the average run where you spend 20-40 (in-game) hours researching, and one or two actually performing the run. At that point, it's ammo, something you usually only worry about between runs, but if you forget... it bites you in the ass.
Is there anything in the book that actually says these vehicles run on gasoline? It is the future after all, surely the world of shadowrun has upgraded to something fancier. That might be why everything is measured in hours rather than gallons.
I'm not going to go vehicle by vehicle, but I know that some of them specify what type of fuel they do use, and any vehicle equipped with Grid Guide can run electric off that system when in a city equipped with same.
The Nitrous Injection mod (Arsenal, pg. 140) can only be installed on vehicles which take diesel or gasoline.
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In motor technology, hybrid systems are now standard. They combine a flexible-fuel (gasoline, bio-ethanol, and biogas) internal combustion engine with an electric motor powered by a high-capacity battery, photovoltaic paint (embedded with cells made from carbon nanotubes capable of converting about 50 per cent of solar energy into electric energy), and advanced technologies like regenerative braking. Th e classic hydrogen-oxygen fuel cell can also be found in all areas of transportation, from the very small (microdrones) to the very large (sea travel, especially submarine propulsion).
Extra Fuel Tank could be anything from an expanded gas tank to an extra fuel cell or battery in the car.
As for fuel prices? Who knows? Can you tell me what gas prices are going to be in a week/six months/five years? If you could go back to 1950 and tell the drivers that were paying $0.27 a gallon that in 60 years they'd be paying $3.05 a gallon, they'd probably reconsider the whole cars & highways thing. Heck, it wasn't until the first gas crisis in the late 70's that the price went above a $1. And it pretty much stayed there until 5 years ago when it tripled within a year.
Finally, the cost of gas should be figured into the character's lifestyle costs. If you want to make it a bit more dynamic, have them roll an Edge test as below to see if they have enough nuyen in their account to cover the fuel purchase.
| Lifestyle | # hits
needed |
| Luxury/High | 0 |
| Middle | 1 |
| Low | 2 |
| Squatter | 3 |
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3rd ed had all these options, but they didn't make the cut into 4th because they wanted to streamline the new edition. If you want all these rules dig out your good ole Rigger 3.
*WARNING* If you go this route you're opening up a whole can of worms... maintenance, equipment stress, variable fuel consumption, fuel grades, and OPTEMPO (operations tempo). Here's the simple stuff that applies here and now...
Maintenance Costs (wear and tear + fuel) per month is equal to 1% of the overall value of the vehicle (base cost + all mods) / 100 [+ stress point * 10] = overhead per month
OPTEMPO breaks down maintenance costs to the kilometer (base cost + all mods) / 100,000 = overhead per kilometer
Lifestyle reductions to overhead costs per month
Middle -200
High -1500
Luxurious -3000
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Extra Fuel Tank could be anything from an expanded gas tank to an extra fuel cell or battery in the car.
Understood, and I fully agree. I only bring it up in relation to its relevance if fuel (whatever form it takes) is ignored.
As for fuel prices? Who knows? Can you tell me what gas prices are going to be in a week/six months/five years? If you could go back to 1950 and tell the drivers that were paying $0.27 a gallon that in 60 years they'd be paying $3.05 a gallon, they'd probably reconsider the whole cars & highways thing. Heck, it wasn't until the first gas crisis in the late 70's that the price went above a $1. And it pretty much stayed there until 5 years ago when it tripled within a year.
And taxi fare in plenty of places has varied as much, bread's price has see-sawed, and they both have prices in the SR4 rulebooks. Sure, prices will change, and GM's should play with the values as they see fit. I'm just wondering how other people handle it in their games (and whether or not I had overlooked something in the books).
Finally, the cost of gas should be figured into the character's lifestyle costs. If you want to make it a bit more dynamic, have them roll an Edge test as below to see if they have enough nuyen in their account to cover the fuel purchase.
The only problem I see with this is the subsequent devaluing of multi-fuel engines. Yes, they're still useful if you're dealing with an area where there's only exotic fuels available, but in the metroplex, with all costs assumed by lifestyle, it loses all value.
To my mind, fuel falls into the same category as bullets, it's the resource that makes your gear function. Yeah, there's a point where the level of detail isn't worth the accounting issues, but when it's something that can make or break a runner's day (like running out of fuel in mid-air, mid-run, with a pair of drones on his tail), it seems like it deserves a little more attention than Lifestyle + GM Fiat on when you last gased up.
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For the most part, I leave the PC's motor vehicles to be powered by Handwavium. It's covered in basic lifestyle/vehicle costs, you can always be assumed to have some gas in the tank to drive across Seattle, I'm always going to assume the steely-eyed professional criminal thought to gas up before the heist, etc, etc. Much like basic clothing and basic food, I'm fine with handling it largely "off screen" and letting it fall under lifestyle costs. Real life is where we worry about rising gas costs, wearing out our clothes, and grocery shopping. In a few Shadowrun games I've run, I haven't even had players keep track of basic ammo purchases (only having them spend money on the good stuff), just to cut down on bookkeeping.
But...if it should become an issue, it can become an issue. "Extra Fuel Tank" and similar mods from Arsenal exist for, well, making it an issue. When the PCs are doing more than cruising across the Metroplex for a Meet -- say, off-wheeling across the open country on a long distance smuggling run -- then it might start mattering. I'd call it 10 nuyen per hour of driving time (so a default "full tank" costs 60 nuyen), and let them look over the vehicle rules for options, add-ons, and modifications they could make to prepare a vehicle for a long haul trip.
Like probably 75% of the vehicle customization in Arsenal (in my experience), it's not going to come up most sessions, with most groups.
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I don't think cost is important so much as range. Bullets are a fair analogy, but instead of worrying about the cost of each bullet, you just worry about how often you need to reload. Extra tanks are like spare clips.
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@ Bradd
Obviously...you have never bought Glasers in RL. ;D
Seriously though, the accounting paperwork is something that can be reduced. You swap out some record keeping and you get the new Matrix rules...not sure that I didn't mind the record keeping (but that is just me).
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@Critias,
Sounds like the best approach to me. Heck, I hadn't even given any thought to refueling until my group's techno hacked & stole a drone which had been "on station" long enough to have relatively little fuel left in it. If they find themselves in a rush for fuel on a long run, it'll cost 'em. But, when they're taking their time to bargain hunt (off screen, of course), the costs are fully subsidized by their lifestyle and the power of handwavium.
It keeps things relevant without bogging the game down in the bookkeeping.
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Let's put it this way: If they roll a critical glitch on a Piloting test, then you know they ran out of gas... ;)
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Let's put it this way: If they roll a critical glitch on a Piloting test, then you know they ran out of gas... ;)
With the obvious crash, burn and screams of panic.
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Only minor burns.
They are out of gas, after all.
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A vehicle nearly out of gas actually has a larger chance of blowing the tank up, as it's the gaseous vapors that tend to ignite and a nearly empty tank has more space for the vapors.
;D
-k
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Nooooooo! You forgot the science alert in your post!!!!!
The only time this has come up is when my runners are planning an op outside the boarders. Most of the time my players vehicles don't last long enough...... ;D