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[SR4] House Rules

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Lacynth40

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« Reply #150 on: <08-07-11/0157:12> »
*blink* WHY would you load an LMG with Stickies? That's like... Gods man, I don't even have a proper analogy for it! Can you imagine someone hit by all of that? They would look like a twitching motion capture model....
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Onion Man

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« Reply #151 on: <08-07-11/0200:12> »
*blink* WHY would you load an LMG with Stickies? That's like... Gods man, I don't even have a proper analogy for it! Can you imagine someone hit by all of that? They would look like a twitching motion capture model....

I like overkill.
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kirk

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« Reply #152 on: <08-07-11/0951:21> »
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*blink* WHY would you load an LMG with Stickies?
Because there's no other way to have a multi-targeting taser, of course. (Autofire, long burst, wide angle, multiple targets. Yeah, you're only going to get a hit or two. each.)

JoeNapalm

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« Reply #153 on: <08-07-11/1007:23> »
Crash, I agree about what a silencer really does. It slows the bullet to subsonic. That reduces range - or rather, it reduces effective range (the bullets travel a lot further than 'range'). It reduces the damage potential at the target. It has a small effect on accuracy, depending on how well designed the mating between weapon and silencer is.

But all that is just simpler for me to model with -1 to the pool.


Actually...that isn't what a silencer does.

A silencer disperses the gasses before they explode out of the end of the barrel, preventing the loud BANG! of the weapon firing.

Modern silencers do not significantly impact power, and actually help a bit with accuracy (they help stabilize they weapon with additional mass).

Silencers do not reduce the muzzle velocity to subsonic speeds. The bullet still makes a CRACK! That is the tiny sonic boom from the bullet. I doesn't make it truly silent, but it doesn't sound like a gunshot, either.

You can use subsonic ammunition in combination with a silencer, in which case, the loudest noises are the action cycling and rounds striking the target...but the silencer doesn't make normal ammunition subsonic.

Short version: Silencers shouldn't have penalties. If you want  to let someone use subsonic ammo, I would give them an additional -2 Perception to hear it, and reduce the range bands by maybe 20%.

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« Last Edit: <08-07-11/1019:52> by JoeNapalm »

Crazy Ivan

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« Reply #154 on: <08-07-11/1039:17> »
SnS in suppressive fire....Yikes.

Actually, subsonic and silencers do add a synergy bonus to each other, so it does work out.

JoeNapalm

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« Reply #155 on: <08-07-11/1100:27> »

Actually, subsonic and silencers do add a synergy bonus to each other, so it does work out.

 
 ???

Not sure I follow...?

Isn't that what I said?

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« Last Edit: <08-07-11/1153:07> by JoeNapalm »

kirk

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« Reply #156 on: <08-07-11/1304:36> »
Oookay, I went back and dug out books plus some manufacturer sites.

I was right the first time, JoeNapalm's correction of my second post was correct.

The bullet does not get slowed at all, much less to subsonic. The silencing effect is slowing and cooling the expanding gases.

HOWEVER, it does effect the accuracy. Modern silencers, especially when designed for and fitted to specific weapons, make the impact minimal -- but the effect still exists.  (1 to 2 moa seems to be unavoidable, 3 to 10 seems typical.)

I'll stick with my house rule: silencer mod is -1 to the attacker's pool.

Crash_00

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« Reply #157 on: <08-07-11/2318:21> »
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Not sure I follow...?

Isn't that what I said?

Subsonic is actually in Arsenal (gives a -1 I think to perception and -2 if you use a silencer/sound suppressor, but I don't have a book so don't quote me on it). I think that is what he was referring to. I actually just realized that it has a range penalty (20%) so I guess that comment was completely pointless on my part.

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The bullet does not get slowed at all, much less to subsonic. The silencing effect is slowing and cooling the expanding gases.

HOWEVER, it does effect the accuracy. Modern silencers, especially when designed for and fitted to specific weapons, make the impact minimal -- but the effect still exists.  (1 to 2 moa seems to be unavoidable, 3 to 10 seems typical.)

Really old silencers used wipes, which the bullet actually hits on its way out. These would slow the bullet down (not to subsonic speeds really, but they were often used with subsonic rounds anyway). These had a horrible impact on the weapons accuracy, making it only effective at close range.

Modern silencers never touch the bullet. They use a series of baffles and chambers that allow the bullet to pass through unhindered, but trap the gas following it. The true barrel length has never changed and the accuracy should not be affected at all.

Now, a lot of people will feel like the accuracy has changed, because the feel of the weapon has changed and they have to adjust for it. For some reason we are a prideful race and its always the stupid machine's fault instead of ours. With the added weight and length, the entire way the weapon moves, looks, feels, and recoils is going to make it feel completely alien if you've only shot it without a silencer.

If Person A trains with a Colt 1911 and Person B trains with a Silenced Colt 1911, and they are true equals, they should have the same shot groups.

Sometimes, a barrel will be ported to allow some of the gasses to bleed off behind a bullet. This will cause the bullet to slow and reduce the power (and accuracy at a decent range), but its really not the silencer doing it as much as the barrel (since that's what is ported).

They are also starting to make silencers that work by venting the gas through chambers that puts higher than the human hearing range (like a dog whistle), but they likewise never touch the bullet.

With the tech at this level, I highly doubt things are going to get worse in this field over the next sixty years.

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SnS in suppressive fire....Yikes.

Pfff...you use grenades for suppressive fire, doesn't everyone know that.  ;D

The_Gun_Nut

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« Reply #158 on: <08-08-11/0136:01> »
You use full-auto grenade launchers for suppressive fire.  FYI.
There is no overkill.

Only "Open fire" and "I need to reload."

Charybdis

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« Reply #159 on: <08-08-11/0140:35> »
You use full-auto grenade launchers for suppressive fire.  FYI.
Full auto GL's,  suppressive fire, dual-wielded
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Onion Man

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« Reply #160 on: <08-08-11/0141:59> »
You use full-auto grenade launchers for suppressive fire.  FYI.
Full auto GL's,  suppressive fire, dual-wielded
Why stop at 2?

There's always Shiva Arms and drone mounts.
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Charybdis

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« Reply #161 on: <08-08-11/0211:42> »
You use full-auto grenade launchers for suppressive fire.  FYI.
Full auto GL's,  suppressive fire, dual-wielded
Why stop at 2?

There's always Shiva Arms and drone mounts.
We've had this discussion :P .... Splitting Dice pools six ways is counterproductive..

Just grab a very long stick with auto-targeting drone guns hanging off it, and say: 'Sic' em!'
'Too much is never enough'

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JoeNapalm

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« Reply #162 on: <08-08-11/1410:40> »

Keep your 'nades and their quirky Scatter, I just want the motorcycle side-car from Snowcrash.

Should be good for about +100 to my Intimidate roll...

 :o

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Crash_00

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« Reply #163 on: <08-09-11/0032:04> »
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We've had this discussion :P .... Splitting Dice pools six ways is counterproductive..

Ya, but with grenades, if you target around the people you might actually hit them.  8) Stupid scatter rules.

The_Gun_Nut

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« Reply #164 on: <08-09-11/0224:26> »
If you target the fixed locations instead of ppl, then it is far easier.  Just target a spot on the ground.  It's not like it can dodge.

Honestly, this should be SOP for anyone.  It works in any game system, not just SR.
There is no overkill.

Only "Open fire" and "I need to reload."