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[SR4] House Rules

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WorkOver

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« Reply #555 on: <08-02-13/2018:42> »
I am going to double the base cost of a cyberlimb, remove all stat sheninagans, your strength and agility are your strength and agility.
+1 to unarmed damage per pair of full cyber limbs, or 3/4 cyber limb. +1 to condition modifier per cyber limb, 3/4 cyber limb, torso or skull.  Use red-Lining rules from 4a.

Hands are +4 to the strength of crushing attacks due to your arm being a robot arm.

Shinobi Killfist

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« Reply #556 on: <08-07-13/1808:31> »
So far my house rules are.

1: Strength based damage is 1 + 1/2 strength round up.
2. critical strike has multiple levels
3. Mystic adepts are currently banned until i can come up with something.
4.  Any wireless bonus that is speed based can be gained through any DNI connection all cyber is assumed to have a dni to itself, wired and reaction enhancers stack normally. 
5.  Ritual magic: # of minions is limited by logic not charisma
6: Astral combat is tied to your logic not your willpower as logic reflects your astral agility.

The last two are to add some balance to shamans vs hermetics as right now shamans get all the benefits tied to magic. 

Not really a house rule but a guideline.  Force 5+ spirits use edge to resist summons and binding.  If you are on good terms with that type of spirit it is force 6+, if you have spirit affinity for that type it is 6+ if you are both on good terms and have spirit affinity it is 7+

What is considered good terms is based on your tradition.  Ordering elementals around is expected elementals see it as a sign of strength and respect it, showing weakness is not respected and will get you on their bad side.  Shamans on the other hand treat spirits as more as friends or mentors. 

Basic

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« Reply #557 on: <08-09-13/1611:17> »
Called shots house rule:

Armor bypass: Target an area not protected by armor.  If the attack hits, the targets armor
is ignored for the damage resistance test; the target rolls only Body.
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Ryo

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« Reply #558 on: <08-12-13/0303:11> »
Running Silent reduces the Wireless Bonus received from any device by half.

Since Running Silent specifies that the -2 to matrix actions is due to processing power having to be devoted to keeping it hidden, and non-hackers have little to no reason to ever take Matrix Actions, this discourages every non-decker player declaring that every piece of gear they own is always running silent, thereby making enemy deckers kind of pointless.

FCBoon

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« Reply #559 on: <08-16-13/1804:58> »
House rules.

I'm running my first shadowrun 4 campaign at the moment and tend to house rule on the fly, based on what feels right at the time. I'm a little confused over armour stacking rules, it seems that you can keep adding armour from different sources to get silly numbers, where it becomes effectively impossible to suffer physical damage (I know stun track might be less, but that's not really the point). To counter this I have ruled that only the highest armour rating counts towards determining whether an attack does physical or stun, other armour still adds dice to the soak text as normal. So far it seems to be working quite well (we had a slight scare when one of my pc's got clipped with a round from a bike mounted LMG [as far as you can get 'clipped' by an LMG hit] and took 9 boxes of physical damage), but otherwise the spilt between stun/physical seems about 50/50 and it keeps that 'danger factor' in the game. Does anyone have any thoughts on this approach?

ZeConster

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« Reply #560 on: <08-16-13/1831:46> »
I'm running my first shadowrun 4 campaign at the moment and tend to house rule on the fly, based on what feels right at the time. I'm a little confused over armour stacking rules, it seems that you can keep adding armour from different sources to get silly numbers, where it becomes effectively impossible to suffer physical damage (I know stun track might be less, but that's not really the point). To counter this I have ruled that only the highest armour rating counts towards determining whether an attack does physical or stun, other armour still adds dice to the soak text as normal. So far it seems to be working quite well (we had a slight scare when one of my pc's got clipped with a round from a bike mounted LMG [as far as you can get 'clipped' by an LMG hit] and took 9 boxes of physical damage), but otherwise the spilt between stun/physical seems about 50/50 and it keeps that 'danger factor' in the game. Does anyone have any thoughts on this approach?
We're talking about 4th, not 5th, right? Because in 4th, you add up all the armor rating points, then pick the highest of Impact and Ballistic, to determine encumbrance ( ((Armor - Body x 2)/2), rounded up, is a penalty to Agility and Reaction). while using multiple pieces of armor (with the exceptions of "+X" stuff, form-fitting armor, and combining pieces of fashion sets) don't add to your actual Armor rating or soak dice.

FCBoon

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« Reply #561 on: <08-16-13/1855:48> »
I'm running my first shadowrun 4 campaign at the moment and tend to house rule on the fly, based on what feels right at the time. I'm a little confused over armour stacking rules, it seems that you can keep adding armour from different sources to get silly numbers, where it becomes effectively impossible to suffer physical damage (I know stun track might be less, but that's not really the point). To counter this I have ruled that only the highest armour rating counts towards determining whether an attack does physical or stun, other armour still adds dice to the soak text as normal. So far it seems to be working quite well (we had a slight scare when one of my pc's got clipped with a round from a bike mounted LMG [as far as you can get 'clipped' by an LMG hit] and took 9 boxes of physical damage), but otherwise the spilt between stun/physical seems about 50/50 and it keeps that 'danger factor' in the game. Does anyone have any thoughts on this approach?
We're talking about 4th, not 5th, right? Because in 4th, you add up all the armor rating points, then pick the highest of Impact and Ballistic, to determine encumbrance ( ((Armor - Body x 2)/2), rounded up, is a penalty to Agility and Reaction). while using multiple pieces of armor (with the exceptions of "+X" stuff, form-fitting armor, and combining pieces of fashion sets) don't add to your actual Armor rating or soak dice.


Yes, it's 4ed. I get the encumbrance rules (although I tend to think strength + body is better than 2 x body), I mean security armour + helmet + shield + arm/leg guards + firm fitting armour (plus maybe an armour spell) all adds up to a situation where your average joe security guard armed with an smg cannot cause physical damage unless he us packing APDS ammo AND gets really lucky on his to hit roll..... Am I just reading the rules wrong?

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #562 on: <08-16-13/2014:40> »
Form Fitting is the only one that only partially counts for encumbrance, and MilSpec's Bodyx3 doesn't work together with ANY other armor as well as get you special attention, so the highest you can get barring MilSpec is (Bodyx2)+3 for Ballistic, or Bodyx3 with MilSpec for Body 4~6 (less with the anti-encumbrance upgrade for it). Natural Armor and Ware/Magical Armor are the only things that go above that since they don't count for encumbrance.
How am I not part of the forum?? O_O I am both active and angry!

FCBoon

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« Reply #563 on: <08-17-13/0116:53> »
Form Fitting is the only one that only partially counts for encumbrance, and MilSpec's Bodyx3 doesn't work together with ANY other armor as well as get you special attention, so the highest you can get barring MilSpec is (Bodyx2)+3 for Ballistic, or Bodyx3 with MilSpec for Body 4~6 (less with the anti-encumbrance upgrade for it). Natural Armor and Ware/Magical Armor are the only things that go above that since they don't count for encumbrance.

So, one of my pc's has an ork with a body of 9. His max armour comes out at 21 (2*body)+3 including form fitting. So that's 21 ballistic plus anything from ware such as dermal plating or bone lacing...... An smg has a base damage of, what, 5? (Noting that automatic fire dv increase doesn't count) he would need 16 net hits to do physical damage!!!!! The guard  is lucky to have agility 4 smg 4, so he's lucky to hit and can never actually hurt the over..... That doesn't seem right to me.

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #564 on: <08-17-13/0534:49> »
In all fairness, he's a tank. Someone who specializes in taking damage won't regularly take damage from small arms fire, just like someone who specializes in dealing damage won't regularly miss. That is what he's built for, and as long as he uses it to cover the rest, rather than to steal the glory or go to a value where anything capable of hurting him will instantly kill his teammates, there's nothing wrong with it.

Also: You don't have to do physical damage. Stun is plenty, especially since he has less Stun boxes than Physical boxes. Hell, if the enemies only do Stun damage, that increases the chance they knock him unconscious, so your rule is actually making it harder on the mooks to down him!
Plus, if he's not smart enough to raise his willpower, he'll be ripe for the taking by Direct Stun Manaspells. A corp mage throwing an overcast manaball into the group through magewire, because he's scared his fellow guards will get butchered, will make quite the impact.

Anyway: that guy with his SMG has 8 dice, and if he has Ex-Explosive ammo he's at 6P/-1. Let's assume he does a narrow burst and manages to score 1 net hit. That raises his damage to 6+1+2, 9S/-1. So we got 9 damage vs 29 soak dice. 2/3 of the time the damage gets soaked. On average it will only do a mere 0.7S damage. And the guy is now out of recoil compensation, so can't even do a second burst, and that damage is only if you hit. But there are other guards, and multiple attacks will drain your dodgepool. So a group of guards who focus their terrified fire on the big heavily-armored Ork will still hurt him a bit.

Now we bring out guards with Assault Rifles and APDS. That's 6P/-5, and capable of Full Auto. Let's assume we use an Ares Alpha, with a Gas Vent 3 added. Now the guards are capable of 2 short bursts each round, meaning after a few have fired twice each the Ork will already be out of dodge dice. For now, let's not be nasty enough to make them do a Full Burst, instead all guards use 2 narrow short bursts. Assume that 4 of them will hit, with 2 net hits. That's 6+2+2 = 10S/-5 damage, vs 30 soak dice. 70% chance the guy takes damage, average 2 damage taken. And the chance those 4 attacks do a combined 10S damage is 33%.

AnyDice: output [highest of 0 and 10-25d{0,0,1}] + [highest of 0 and 10-25d{0,0,1}] + [highest of 0 and 10-25d{0,0,1}] + [highest of 0 and 10-25d{0,0,1}]

If he has 35 soak dice, the chances he gets knocked out at even a mere 2 Willpower is only 8%, but that's assuming ~4 guards firing a total of 8 narrow bursts of which only 4 hit him. If luck isn't on his side, he'll go down bad. If he gets lucky and starts using Edge on really bad soak rolls, he'll be fine and might not even need healing much.

But even then, he's a Tank, and not even a fully-optimized one at that. It's his duty to soak damage, and to try not to get knocked out by it.
How am I not part of the forum?? O_O I am both active and angry!

Upaatk

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« Reply #565 on: <08-18-13/0535:11> »
Edited to re-add a little intro I accidentally cut off on my final preview to post: Hello all!  I've been looking forward to SR5 for quite a while and was ecstatic to see some Adept love in the form of Qi Foci, but like all things I love I have to tinker with them.  In the basic rules it takes a Force 16  focus with an Availability of 48R to get a +4 Strength bonus that can be had for very little through 'ware augments.  Assuming Qi Foci are to be the augments for adepts, or perhaps in a future edition other magic users, that seems a little overly restrictive.  Given that I've reworked them for my Availability by basing that on the Power Points of the power in the focus and I gave them grades like other augments have, but with a more appropriate naming convention (two actually!).  Increasing grade means higher price and availability restriction, but lower total force and therefore lower karma cost.

Re-edited because I had too much time on my hands while out sick today!  So, here's some info on Chinese magical practices!

pg. 279
Traditions
The Shnjio Mshī
The Shnjio, 神教, tradition is the most common Chinese 'lower class' and populist magical tradition; it is a counterpoint to the 'high society' and academic Wŭxng, 五行, tradition (detailed in SR4 Street Magic and hopefully in an upcoming SR5 book!).  Where Wŭxng wŭjn, or more accurately wŭ d rn, 五達人 (experts in the philosophy of fives; not to be confused with wǔ jīn, 五金, the Chinese name for cyberware), see an orderly universe bound by structure and bureaucratic  design that can be studied until mastered, Shnjio mshī, 牧師 (priests), practice feeling the ebb and flow of the universe's and the Gods' q, 氣 (vital energy), by living in alignment with them until the mshī learns to use their own q to cause magical effects.  A common statement by mshī is that "Teaching by example beats explaining in words" or, as said in the West, actions speak louder than words.

Side Bar: Chinese Magicians Titles
Despite their differences in belief and practice, all the Chinese magical traditions have been exchanging concepts with each other for the past millennium and certain titles have become preeminent over others.  In particular Daoism has been a source of many of the modern titles, but magicians across the range of traditions including Chn Zōng Sēng / Chn Zōng N Gū, 禪宗僧 / 禪宗尼姑 (Chinese Zen Buddhist Monks / Nuns), Do Jio T, 道教徒 (Followers of Daoism), Shnjio Mshī, and Wŭxng Wŭjn can all be called magician by the generic title Wū Shī, 巫師.  Magical healing specialists are often called, Wū Yī, 巫醫.  The arts of Enchantment are considered Wi Dān, 外丹 (Outer Alchemy), while the arts of Adepts to master their own bodies are considered Ni Dān, 內丹 (Inner Alchemy).  Similarly, the arts of Conjuring are described as Wi Zho, 外召 (Outer Summoning), while the arts of Sorcery are described as Ni Zho, 內召 (Inner Summoning).

Unlike the Wŭxng tradition, which recognizes the Gods but is not itself a religion, Shnjio is the Chinese folk religion with eons of beliefs building on beliefs.  It is often intermixed with Buddhism, Confucianism, and Daoism, but is a religion and philosophical tradition of its own and often takes on different facets in different regions of the world.  Mshī see the Gods, Ancestors, and other Shn, 神 (also including immortals, saints, and more assorted supernatural beings) not as easily defined beings that can be petitioned for aid as wŭjn or shaman might, but as implacable forces with their own whims and beliefs which the mshī must learn to adapt to in a way that benefits them both.  The Shn are often emulated or asked for guidance, but the magic a mshī wields is about learning and exploiting the quirks of the universe, rather than the quirks of the Shn.  Often the basic structure of these beliefs is similar to that of wŭjn, such as the Chinese Five Processes belief that forms the basis for Wŭxng magical practices, but in Shnjio it is believed that structure is much less firm and much more free flowing than wŭjn assume.

Five Processes philosophy, commonly called Five Elements in the West, holds that Metal (Jīn, 金), enriches Water (Shuǐ, 水), which nourishes Trees (M, 木), which feeds Fire (Huǒ, 火), which creates Earth (Tǔ, 土), which bears Metal, which chops Trees, which parts Earth, which absorbs Water, which extinguishes Fire, which melts Metal.  In this Harmonious Cycle, the first half of the chain is the Generative direction of flow and the second half is the Overcoming direction.  These form an overlaying metaphor and metaphysic to all of reality in pure Wŭxng tradition, which holds this to be a firm and reliable constant in the universe.  The Shnjio tradition feels that this, like most things, is often or even usually true, but not always a truth.  Mshī say that in the proper season, or at the whim of the Shn, Metal can be ground to Earth, which can burst into Fire, which can sprout the seeds of Trees, which can release clouds of Water, which can crystallize into Metal, which can hone Fire, which can distill Water, which can spark Earth, which can cultivate Trees, which can grind Metal.  To many wŭjn this appears to be nonsensical at best and disturbingly disharmonious at worst, but mshī see it as simply differently harmonious and call it the Amicable Cycle with first Engendering and then Seizing directions of flow.

Mshī build mio, 廟 (temples), to act as their magical lodges, although in their belief the mio belongs to the community of worshippers who support it rather than to the mshī.  Due to a series of translations through Portuguese, back to Chinese, and then to English, mio are also called joss houses in English and are frequently found by that name in Chinatowns across North America.  An isolated mshī might build a c, 祠 (ancestral shrine), or yun, 院 (sanctuary shrine), but a collection of them could eventually build up to a gōng, 宮 (palace), of shrines.  Whichever are built they are usually a riot of colors and icons, particular with dragons and Gods on their roofs.  This often requires reagents of metals, minerals, and woods for building the base structure, as well as animal and plant parts for special inks and dyes.  Knowledge of botany, parabotany, geology, parageology, zoology, parazoology, and chemistry are very beneficial in the hunt for appropriate materials.  They are often built with fēng shuĭ ideals in mind, so a knowledge of arcana, architecture, and astronomy can be invaluable to their design.

The Shnjio view of conjuring is dependent on their understanding that spirits are powerful beings (or are connected to powerful beings) and worthy of deep respect, or occasionally great fear.  Mshī are animistic, so see spirits in everything, but believe they are better off making long lasting, binding bargains with the spirits they know well, rather than chance a bad meeting with a wayward spirit while out and about.

Shnjio Tradition
Combat: Man (Metal)
Detection: Earth
Health: Fire
Illusion: Plant* (Trees)
Manipulation: Water
Drain: Intuition + Willpower
*Plant Spirits are detailed in SR4 Street Magic and, again, hopefully soon in a book for SR5!

pg. 319
Q Foci
The Force and Availability of a focus is determined by the Power Point cost of the power it holds and the Grade of the focus.  Q foci were first well developed by the Wŭxng magical tradition and their grade naming patterns generally follow that traditions lead.  The standard, base grade of q foci are called Yī, 一 (One), and require a Force of four times the Power Point cost of the power it holds (rounded up to the nearest whole number as usual), so a Level 1 Improved Ability (Unarmed Combat) yī focus is a Force 2 focus, while a level 1 Improved Reflexes focus is Force 6 if you do not have Power Points of your own in the Power, or Force 4 if you already have levels of your own.  They have an Availability equal to five times the Power Point cost of the power it holds.

The next grade are called Sh, 十 (Ten), and require a Force of three times the Power Point cost of the power it holds, so a Level 1 Improved Ability (Unarmed Combat) sh focus is equal to Force 1.5, rounded up to a Force 2 focus, while a level 1 Improved Reflexes focus is Force 4.5, rounded up to Force 5 if you do not have Power Points of your own in the Power, or Force 3 if you already have levels of your own.  They have an Availability two higher than the base yī grade and cost four times what yī foci cost for that same power (i.e., a level 1 Improved Reflexes yī focus is Force 6, Availability = Power Points 1.5 x 5 = 7.5 rounded up to 8, and Costs = Force 6 x 3,000 = 18,000 , but a level 1 Improved Reflexes sh focus is Force 5, Availability = yī Availability 8 + 2 = 10, and Cost = yī cost 18,000 x 4 = 72,000 ).

The third grade are called Bǎi, 百 (Hundred), and require a Force of two times the Power Point cost of the power it holds with an Availability four higher than the base and cost seven times what Yī foci cost.  The final grade are called Wn, 萬 (Ten Thousand, a mystically significant, great number to Chinese magicians), and require only a Force equal to the Power Point cost of the power it holds (rounded up as normal), but have an Availability eight higher than the base and cost ten times as much as yī foci.

In the Shnjio tradition the grade names are taken from the tones used in speaking Mandarin; in ascending order Png, 平 (the first or even tone), Shǎng, 上 (the second or rising tone), Q, 去 (the third or going tone), and R, 入 (the fourth or entering tone).

Qi Foci Table             Power Point to       Availability    Cost
Grades                      Force Multiplier   Modifier        Multiplier
Yī     一  (Png     平)        x 4                   -                x 1
Sh   十  (Shǎng  上)        x 3                 + 2              x 4
Bǎi   百  (Q       去)        x 2                 + 4              x 7
Wn 萬  (R       入)        x 1                 + 8              x 10

pg. 320
Weapon Foci
In most Chinese magical traditions weapon foci are considered extensions of the self and are categorized with the q foci.  Wŭxng weapon foci are called Qiān, 千 (Thousand), and Shnjio weapon foci are called Qīng, 轻 (the fifth or lightly neutral tone that takes on the character of the tone before it).

pg. 451
Augmentation
The Chinese name for cyberware is wǔ jīn, 五金 (metal hardware, also the five metals; gold, silver, copper, iron, and tin).  Their name for bioware developed as a counterpoint to the name for cyberware as wǔ zng fǔ, 五臟腑 (the five yin and yang organs), in a not quite accurate reference to Traditional Chinese Medicine organ understanding (which actually includes a sixth yang meta-organ related to metabolism and energy flow).  'Ware grades almost always go by the typical Western names, Standard, Alpha, etc, but the Chinese names listed for q foci (on pg. 319) are occasionally used, with the Shnjio names a bit more frequently than the Wŭxng names.  Similarly, at times weapon 'ware will be described in the same terms as weapon foci (listed on pg. 320) with the Shnjio term, Qīng, much more common for its association with augmenting or taking on the character of the greater body it enhances.

pg. 461
Magical Equipment
Foci                                       Availability                  Cost
Qi Focus (Base, Yī Grade)        (Power Points x 5)R     Force x 3,000

==> Disclaimer - All the above material is free to use by gamers or game publishers; to be presented in any for-profit materials or open gaming license content I should be listed for writing credit regarding the used work, but I do not require monetary compensation or restricted licensing ownership of the work after publishing.
« Last Edit: <08-19-13/2219:53> by Upaatk »

Upaatk

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« Reply #566 on: <08-19-13/2232:28> »
And here's a link to my current running document of other house rules, as a PDF on drop box for your viewing pleasure, or at least for your viewing!

Highlights being shifts in Metatype/Magic-Resonance table, new Skill Groups for skills that are likely taught/learned as a program together, and Mystic Adepts set to 1 Karma per 0.25 Power Points so that they can purchase in finer grades.

Incidentally, Abschalten, I really like the direction you're heading with Technomancers Redux!  I was thinking of something similar with a power point equivalent and then bamf, there was the redux!  I do think I prefer their internal rewiring as subtle rather than physically extensive, so I too would probably make the biojack concept more grabbing cord ends or sticking fingers in sockets rather than the actual hole to plug things in, but otherwise I think you're definitely on a good track and I hope you'll put a tag line on your work letting the game designers know you're open to them using your ideas.

Crazy Ivan

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« Reply #567 on: <08-21-13/2100:48> »
If and when I start GM'ing again, there is one house rule I've been contemplating after one particular session of play with a new GM.

In the session, there was a melee focused character (adept I think, but it doesn't matter) who relied on her sword first, fists second. No biggy, nothing special there. A fight breaks out, and forwhatever reason, the character couldn't get to her sword. So out come the fists to deal with some knife wielding mook.

The GM, in his ruling, argued that for defense purposes we could not use Unarmed Combat as the skill for the defense pool. Bear in mind, everyone at this table is military (active or recently retired at that), so we're no strangers to combat. Since I was dead dog tired at this point, I wasn't about to start a rules discussion to slow things down.

Then I started thinking about it. In hand to hand combat, in terms of melee combat, the unarmed combatant is generally at the immediate disadvantage. Trying to parry a knife is far more dangerous than just getting the hell out of the way. catching a blade or a pipe on the forearm trying to parry the thing with my own anatomy is not going to account for a good time since with even the subtlest mistake, it will result in a cut up arm or broken bones. So while I agreed in the end with the general concept, I didn't agree with his execution.

So here is what I was thinking;
Instead of making Unarmed useless defensively, I had another idea. In terms of defense, the defender no longer wins ties when facing someone who is using a melee weapon. Given that unarmed has a ton of advantages (shock hands, always being 'armed', etc. etc.) it gives a minor one-up to blades (who really needs it) and clubs (who really doesn't need it, but logically fits the concept, since it doesn't take a genius or tremendous amounts of skill to be dangerous with a lead pipe). These are my thoughts, but I figured I'd submit it to the masses for critiques, comments, and suggestions.

Palladion

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« Reply #568 on: <08-21-13/2235:57> »
House Rule

Grenades and AOE Spells: Defender(s) roll an Edge (3) Defense Test (modified by Full Defense, if applicable). Success means damage is avoided, failure means defender(s) make a Damage Resistance Test for the full damage of the grenade or AOE spell (modified by range from blast).

(This is inspired somewhat on the Suppressive Fire rules, where Reaction + Edge is used to avoid an area effect of bullets.)
P A L L A D I O N

Calvin_Moon

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« Reply #569 on: <08-25-13/2226:41> »
Voice Modulator rating bonus to performance singing. What do you think?
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