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Agent Cluster - would that really work?

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Namikaze

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« Reply #30 on: <12-30-14/1826:46> »
And imagine when people start posting some comprehensive rules of their own that will inspire others to do the same!

You mean like the (shameless plug incoming) Advanced Technomancy Rules?
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8-bit

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« Reply #31 on: <12-30-14/2138:10> »
And imagine when people start posting some comprehensive rules of their own that will inspire others to do the same!

You mean like the (shameless plug incoming) Advanced Technomancy Rules?

Are you sure it's shameless?  :P

No, but really, they are awesome, those houserules.

The Wyrm Ouroboros

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« Reply #32 on: <12-31-14/0110:18> »
I've honestly always felt that agents - however they're called in whatever edition you're in - were one of the ways to seperate the hackers from the wannabes.  Wannabes might buy a dumb frame or two, and basically remote-pilot them kamikaze-like into the action; it's the delicate, fine programming of a smart frame / agent / bot / whatever that enables a hacker to spread his digital fingers wide and get deep into the guts of whatever he's trying to do.  There's just too much that's out there for a decker to personally have to interact with.

And that, functionally, is the second part of it - an agent, a 'smart frame', is going to be programmed to take cues from the decker's own actions, code phrases, and the like.  Should it run on the decker's own deck?  I'm of two minds on that one - I think that if you run it (or all of them) on your deck, you should have instantaneous access to anything they snag, but if they get hurt, so do you.  On the flip side, I think that you SHOULD be able to cut them loose, to run on the global network, but then they have to actually come back to you in order to give you the goodies - and if they get roasted, you are none the wiser.

Unfortunately, Data Trails is as likely to have hard rules for coding and the like as Street Magic has rules for building spells.  Me, I love crunch, especially that which lets you take something apart (vehicle, deck, weapon, spell) and understand in game-technical terms how it works - and then go and put your own wizzer custom thing (vehicle, deck, weapon, spell) together.

Were I to house-rule something along these lines, I'd simply say that these sorts of programs can't be copied; you can't buy (or code) one version of DataHunter V, copy it a dozen times, and send the dozen copies out into the ether to do your search; the code requires unique identifiers, and copies screw that up, meaning that the matrix is confused about which one is the REAL one, and winds up frying them all into digital dust.  If you want multiple agents, you'd have to buy or code them - but then, I'd also require some sort of test by the decker (at least software, presumably) in order to fine-tune the agent, perhaps a Software + Logic [Mental] (3 * agent rating, 12 hours) extended test to get it tweaked in just the right way.  That means a wannabe is going to wreck expensive agent after expensive agent, because they'd [ degrade, work in the wrong ways, conflict with the decker's own style/actions/code ], whereas the true decker is going to be able to buy a good Level 6 Mastermind Agent and a few lower-level Thug 4s and get them properly networked - between both each other and himself.
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Neal Allen

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« Reply #33 on: <01-24-15/0516:36> »
Guys.

Get your shit together.

It says right there.  This is like basic matrix rules.

Here states that ages *are programs*
"Agents are autonomous programs that are rated from 1 to 6. Each agent occupies one program slot on your deck." page 246, Agents

And here it states you can only run one program
"You can’t run more than one program of the same type on your deck at once (and no, changing the name of one copy of a program to run two copies doesn’t work, chummer)." ~ page 243, Programs


Could you imagine running 7 (rating 6) agents on your deck?
Frag no.  No sane DM would ever allow that.
Retired.
Frag off.

Namikaze

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« Reply #34 on: <01-24-15/1044:58> »
What a great way to introduce yourself to us, Neal.  Nothing says "I want to make a good third post" quite like insulting people.  I should know, my third post was a picture of a person with their head up their own ass.  You can guess what happened to me after that.
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Darzil

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« Reply #35 on: <01-24-15/1102:38> »
To be fair, his other posts were reasonable, but I did have to check after reading this. It's a bit insulting, but also just stating things already stated in many of the posts.

Jack_Spade

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« Reply #36 on: <01-24-15/1205:48> »
@Neal

Yes, as mentioned, others have found those rules and quoted them already.
To reiterate: It is still debatable if an Agent 3 is the same program as an Agent 4. Even if that would be the case, the Cluster would just have to be increased by a few other "cheap" decks (yeah, yeah at 50k a pop it's not quite optimal, but still manageable, especially with looted gear)
talk think matrix

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Neal Allen

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« Reply #37 on: <01-31-15/2135:43> »
@Namikaze & Darzil
No offense guys, but I really don't care.  You've both mentioned it's only my third post.  In the whole time I've had this account.  99% of what I do is not commenting. 

@Jack_Spade
Fair enough, but the argument can also be made that a Respirator (rating 4) and a Respirator (rating 5) are both respirators. 
Retired.
Frag off.

Namikaze

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« Reply #38 on: <01-31-15/2155:26> »
@Namikaze & Darzil
No offense guys, but I really don't care.  You've both mentioned it's only my third post.  In the whole time I've had this account.  99% of what I do is not commenting.

No offense intended, I suppose.  But I am offended.  You acted like an ass, and now you say you don't care.   Which, by itself, is a pretty assinine response.  So you can say you mean no offense all you want, but your behavior says otherwise.
Feel free to keep any karma you earned illicitly, it's on us.

Quote from: Stephen Covey
Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.

Tarislar

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« Reply #39 on: <02-01-15/1130:28> »
I hope I didn't come across as insulting or anything. Just had me confused that everyone seemed to have that opinion, when I couldn't find any mention of it in the book.
The wording of "Your Agent", singular, not highlighted by ADZ above could give the impression of just 1.
But I think the "Each Agent" takes up 1 slot has more weight.
But I can see at first glance where you could read it as 1 by the "your" part.

That said the only 1 of a "type" is going to limit it depending on how that whole debate goes.
« Last Edit: <02-01-15/1139:17> by Tarislar »

Tarislar

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« Reply #40 on: <02-01-15/1138:02> »
Yes, as mentioned, others have found those rules and quoted them already.
To reiterate: It is still debatable if an Agent 3 is the same program as an Agent 4. Even if that would be the case, the Cluster would just have to be increased by a few other "cheap" decks (yeah, yeah at 50k a pop it's not quite optimal, but still manageable, especially with looted gear)
Would there be a reason to run any other program at 2 different strengths?
Like say Wrapper-3 & Wrapper-5 ?
When I see "Type" of program, I think its referring to the "Name" of it not its power.
But I'm curious if there is any OTHER program type that you would regularly run multiples of?

Jack_Spade

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« Reply #41 on: <02-01-15/1627:29> »
@Tarislar

I'm not aware that there are other programs with different strengths.
The argument is purely based on semantics and poorly worded rules. I'd say the intent of the rule was to prevent you from stacking bonus dice e.g. from Sneak.

How you define type is left to you and your GM to decide. A silly strict reading would prevent you from running two hacking programs at the same time, since they both share the type hacking program (which is - with a high degree of probability -  not the intent of the rule).
talk think matrix

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Revenant Kynos Isaint Rex

Tarislar

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« Reply #42 on: <02-01-15/1654:48> »
I'm not aware that there are other programs with different strengths. 
Doh, and that is why I'm not a Decker in 5E. 
I was still thinking old school SR where all programs had ratings, not just the Agents being discussed.

Lucean

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« Reply #43 on: <02-02-15/0118:42> »
@Tarislar

I'm not aware that there are other programs with different strengths.
The argument is purely based on semantics and poorly worded rules. I'd say the intent of the rule was to prevent you from stacking bonus dice e.g. from Sneak.

How you define type is left to you and your GM to decide. A silly strict reading would prevent you from running two hacking programs at the same time, since they both share the type hacking program (which is - with a high degree of probability -  not the intent of the rule).
And here we are: RAI we welcome you.
You take a quite silly argument that type of program could also mean common ./. hacking to justify your reading of Rating X Agent is a different type than Rating Y Agent? Come on ...

Jack_Spade

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« Reply #44 on: <02-02-15/0357:30> »
Yes it's hyperbole, but the rules aren't particularly clear in that regard. That's all I'm saying. Until there is a hot patch errata or Datatrails with more details, it will be a call for the individual GM.
talk think matrix

To strive, to seek, to find and not to yield
Revenant Kynos Isaint Rex