Shadowrun

Shadowrun General => Gear => Topic started by: Angelone on <09-26-10/0833:47>

Title: Adreneline pump... why?
Post by: Angelone on <09-26-10/0833:47>
I was looking through the bioware list and came across the adrenaline pump (SR4 pg 338), I seemed to remember it not being worthwhile to get and so I read it. All I can say is I was right, it's fairly nice statwise adding to agi, str, rea, and will, but the drawbacks don't make it worth it in my mind. The temporary duration I can get over. It's crash effect which is unresistable and the fact that it goes off so easily are what kills it for me.

Aside from kamakaze beserker types who would use this? I don't understand the draw of this piece of bioware.
Title: Re: Adreneline pump... why?
Post by: The_Gun_Nut on <09-26-10/0931:11>
If you recall, Shadowrun combat tends to be over very, very quick.  The minimum duration of a rating 3 pump is 3 combat turns, with the average hovering around 10 or 11 combat turns.  Even with a rating 1 (min 1 turn, average 3~4 turns) the character will have a pretty good advantage against opponents for (essentially) the duration of combat.  And considering that the character will never suffer the penalties of Stun damage, he will never be knocked unconscious and has the best chance of escaping a terrible situation or turning a bad one to his team's favor.

Sure, he suffers the horrible headache and strain later, but who cares about later when you're alive to feel it?
Title: Re: Adreneline pump... why?
Post by: Angelone on <09-26-10/0946:05>
If the stun doesn't send you into overflow and kill you just the same. My main concern with the stun is I recall stim patchs don't heal stun anymore. Am I wrong about that?
Title: Re: Adreneline pump... why?
Post by: Doc Chaos on <09-26-10/1105:38>
If the stun doesn't send you into overflow and kill you just the same. My main concern with the stun is I recall stim patchs don't heal stun anymore. Am I wrong about that?

No. Stim Patches just give you temporary pain tolerance and one additional box of stun damage after their duration.
Title: Re: Adreneline pump... why?
Post by: The_Gun_Nut on <09-26-10/1302:14>
Even if it pushes you into overflow, if you survived the encounter to get away to where someone can patch you up, then the pump did it's job and kept you and your team going.

Worry about consequences later, focus on the now.
Title: Re: Adreneline pump... why?
Post by: Kontact on <09-30-10/0150:58>
Too expensive and too essence-intensive.
Adrenaline pumps are like cranial bombs with WaCkY ConsQuEncES!

The only reason you would have one in your head is if it was put there as punishment.
Title: Re: Adreneline pump... why?
Post by: FastJack on <09-30-10/0754:04>
I disagree. AS implants hve their uses as mentioned before. They aren't perfect, sure, but they are by no means detrimental to the runner.
Title: Re: Adreneline pump... why?
Post by: Mäx on <09-30-10/0823:09>
I disagree. AS implants hve their uses as mentioned before. They aren't perfect, sure, but they are by no means detrimental to the runner.
Your saying that possible 18S damage on top of what ever stun damage you took while it was active isn't detrimental.
I think we have very different definitions of that term, considering that amount of damage has a very real change of killing you right then and there.
Title: Re: Adreneline pump... why?
Post by: FastJack on <09-30-10/0857:32>
I'm saying that it's not terrific, and has a chance of being really bad, but it is FAR from being a cranial bomb.
Title: Re: Adreneline pump... why?
Post by: Prime Mover on <09-30-10/1015:39>
I think it's the amount of unresisted drain that concerns people and honestly it seems excessive.  An average runner over the course of a combat in which he might need to use the gland will suffer some stun damage.  A level 3 pump activated twice on one mission suffers a minimum of 6 unresisted stun and an average of 18.  Most SR missions will leave you wounded, either your armor jack dropped damage to stun or something else took a few boxes.  So your basically for an average mission your paying 90K for suicide ware.

I think it's just a matter of common sense to lower the unresisted level of damage or allow a soak roll.
1.) 1 Unresisted box of stun per level of the pump.
2.) Resist 3S per level of pump.
Title: Re: Adreneline pump... why?
Post by: The_Gun_Nut on <09-30-10/1314:56>
You mean a minimum of 3 and maximum of 18.  With an average of 10~11.
Title: Re: Adreneline pump... why?
Post by: Mäx on <09-30-10/1549:22>
You mean a minimum of 3 and maximum of 18.  With an average of 10~11.
I think you missed the part about the pump activating twice.
Title: Re: Adreneline pump... why?
Post by: The_Gun_Nut on <09-30-10/2352:44>
How would it activate twice in one combat?  It can't.  You have to wait an hour before it can activate again.  This precludes activating in the same combat.  Unless you are just really burning to play out 1200 combat rounds.  This gives some time to heal up between activations.

If the guy with the level 3 pump needs to ensure that the pump won't trigger again, there is a chemical that will neutralize the adrenaline release called MAO.  It will keep him from overdosing and potentially dying.  Or he can tranq himself to prevent activation in the first place.

Now, I wouldn't grab a rating 3 pump myself, but I can see those who might find it attractive.  The most I'd grab would be a rating 2.
Title: Re: Adreneline pump... why?
Post by: Critias on <09-30-10/2355:37>
Unless you are just really burning to play out 1200 combat rounds. 
Sometimes there's just that many bad guys, I guess.   ;D
Title: Re: Adreneline pump... why?
Post by: Kontact on <10-01-10/0440:48>
How would it activate twice in one combat?  It can't.  You have to wait an hour before it can activate again.  This precludes activating in the same combat.  Unless you are just really burning to play out 1200 combat rounds.  This gives some time to heal up between activations.

He said one mission, not one combat.  You know, go to the place, whack some guys, get the info, follow the info to the mcguffin, whack some more guys, try to hand-off the mcguffin without Johnson boning you.

If the guy with the level 3 pump needs to ensure that the pump won't trigger again, there is a chemical that will neutralize the adrenaline release called MAO.  It will keep him from overdosing and potentially dying.  Or he can tranq himself to prevent activation in the first place.
There are no rules for that in SR4.  Which is one of the many reasons why you have to change the AP to make it not crap.

Now, I wouldn't grab a rating 3 pump myself, but I can see those who might find it attractive.  The most I'd grab would be a rating 2.

And that would cost you 1.5 points of Essence and a grip of cash in addition to making you take the equivalent of a gel round to the face every time you benefited from it.

Just pick up a drug habit.  It's safer, cheaper and won't cost you a shred of essence until you burn out.

Besides, the stats it increases, like agility and reaction are easy enough to hit aug max for any build who might want a pump and has money and essence to burn.  Strength too, but not too many people benefit heavily from strength.  So, basically, what you end up with is a piece of gear which hurts you in exchange for a temporary willpower boost.  Not a good look.
Title: Re: Adreneline pump... why?
Post by: Crimsondude on <10-01-10/1947:39>
Unless you are just really burning to play out 1200 combat rounds.  
Sometimes there's just that many bad guys, I guess.   ;D

TNF. Tropical Connection. Uh... Brainscan, maybe. In short, yes. There are.
Title: Re: Adreneline pump... why?
Post by: Frostriese on <10-08-10/1002:27>
Just pick up a drug habit.  It's safer, cheaper
Taken out of context that is kinda funny :D
Title: Re: Adreneline pump... why?
Post by: Kontact on <10-08-10/1125:14>
Well, it was meant to be ironic ;)

Nitro: at least he isn't using an Adrenaline Pump!
Title: Re: Adreneline pump... why?
Post by: Glyph on <10-31-10/1155:19>
Unless you are just really burning to play out 1200 combat rounds. 
Sometimes there's just that many bad guys, I guess.   ;D

I'm still upset that one  security guard got away...


I've never been tempted to take adrenaline pump, for any character, ever.  If I'm making a street samurai, why get temporary boosts that leave me nigh-incapacitated afterwards, when I can get permanent boosts to those stats?  It really doesn't make sense for its cost and availability.  People who can afford it and acquire it have so many better options to pick.  It would make more sense if it was a lot cheaper, and got used more by kamikaze assassins and desperate street punks.
Title: Re: Adreneline pump... why?
Post by: voydangel on <10-31-10/1250:39>
Yea, I'm gonna have to agree with the general trend here and admit that I've never taken an adrenal pump for any character ever. And honestly, I can't remember the last time a player of mine did either. I think the #1 issue is that the damage is unresisted. If you were allowed a Body + Willpower roll to soak it, even if it was an unaugmented (natural stats only) soak roll, it would make the thing worth it to a limited degree. Personally though it would still be a "last choice" for ware because it's so expensive essence wise.
Title: Re: Adreneline pump... why?
Post by: The_Gun_Nut on <10-31-10/1258:09>
In previous editions, it would also give you bonus dice for initiative.  Since 4th edition changes how initiative is done, that quality is gone, and so it most of it's allure.  I think an alteration in its functionality would be in order, given people's strong negative reaction to it.
Title: Re: Adreneline pump... why?
Post by: Kontact on <11-13-10/2112:07>
Yeah, it seems like the Adrl Pump should give you bonus IPs.  That would make it worth it.
Maybe then it could be something that the bio-face gets and can use in those instances where everything turns to shit.
Title: Re: Adreneline pump... why?
Post by: The_Gun_Nut on <11-14-10/0925:48>
Have it give bonus passes when activated, but doesn't stack with other enhancements?
Title: Re: Adreneline pump... why?
Post by: Angelone on <11-14-10/1304:29>
I think it should stack it's not like you're gonna live long anyway. Maybe it gives you the bonus that is better.
Title: Re: Adreneline pump... why?
Post by: The_Gun_Nut on <11-14-10/1519:18>
I meant, it doesn't stack with other augmentations that grant extra IP's.  Like all the others don't stack with each other.
Title: Re: Adreneline pump... why?
Post by: Angelone on <11-14-10/1928:42>
I understand what you were saying. I was saying that if there was an IP component it should stack or overwrite if it is better than the current one. That would make it more inline with the price, make also scarier as it would make people faster and tougher. There would also be alot of hesitation to get it unless you were going for the whole crazy berserker with a death wish type character.
Title: Re: Adreneline pump... why?
Post by: The_Gun_Nut on <11-15-10/0029:34>
Given the price difference, the bad juju that comes with using this thing seems to balance it out nicely.  It would look like a cheaper, but more dangerous, alternative to wired reflexes or synaptic boosters.  (Cheaper essence for the former, cheaper cash for the latter.)
Title: Re: Adreneline pump... why?
Post by: Morg on <01-15-11/1104:09>
The corps would probably look in to this problem if it doesn't sell change it perhaps create a combo system synthacardium (synthetic heart) + adrenal pump that would allow one to help resist the drain as a package deal. as I recall they mentioned something about cyberware packages in augmentation were the essance cost is reduced because the system is streamlined, instead have it solve the problem the corp way