[Marcus]

The catch about Stun damage is the minimum rest time and wound penalties  You have to rest an hour minimum before you can roll to recover Stun, and you'll need to do that unless you're fine with eating wound penalties to your alchemical preparations.  If you have an obscene dice pool (like the quite achievable 20+) then you could be hitting the Limit so easily that being barely conscious won't actually be a problem, though.

An hour just isn't that big a deal. Install a bed in the rigger's van, make the thing, eat the drain, take a nap, wake up an hour and 15 mins later go again. In the grand scheme of a run, 6-8 hour leg works just isn't the bad.

[ShadowcatX]

I feel health spells are overrated, the penalty for low essence really hits small dice pools, and increase attributes need a fairly high force, which can be problematic with attempting to raise potency unless you are all in. Detection and manipulation, that's where it is at.

A single combat spell could be useful, but smaller dicepools again crop up as a possible problem.

Well, at character creation I mean and then down the road pick some others up to get some options.  Manipulation I'm getting it, thinking about going Rosebush and another at the beginning with Heal from Health. I do hate how rules as they are I don't have any free spells, makes it kinda hard, but I figure having Arcana high, could try and go the research route.

Rosebush is interesting, but keep in mind it has very high drain, needs very high force, and thus your potency will be limited.

And yes, the lack of spells hurt. Because of that, I think the full mage might be better than enchanter even if you play strictly as you were an aspected mage.

[Beta]

Basically with alchemy you almost never want to be looking at an opposed test. 

AOE attack spells can be OK because of there is no dodge and damage is set by force, but it will be hard to land most other attacks short of surprise.  Oh, and then there is the manablade fencing alchemist, but that is a pretty specialized build.

Most detect spells are resisted rolls    Combat sense is a nice exception (but analyze device uses object resistance to resist, so unless you are analyzing a a large stick it probably won't help a lot)

For health spells it is possible that pain resistance (If I remembered the name correctly) would be more useful than heal -- set it for 6 boxes of damage (minimal drain), hand them out to the team, then order them to go off if people start taking damage.  Attribute boosts can be good -- and think of those for people's dump stats as well as their prime stats.  Got a clumsy decker who is going to need to climb a fence and and sneak past a rent-a-cop?  Increase Agility!  etc.  But the essence penalty is real and a pain.  There are some negative health spells that might work out OK in niche situations, but honestly I'm still not 100% confident on the 

I think all of the illusion spells are resisted?  I wish there was a 'hits add to your stealth roll' type of spell, but I don't think there is currently?

Manipulation is probably where most of the gold is.  Levitation, barrier, mana barrier (even small barriers take an action to get through, and cleverly placed can cause more issues than that), mage hands, gecko crawl .... there are all sorts of tricks -- tricks that honestly a normal mage can often handle just as well and more flexibly.  But if you are in alchemy you can do some creative things like having the whole team crawling up the side of a building, having a timed barrier prepared on a small drone, touch-trigger levitation traps, etc.  But almost all require finding the right situation to make full use of, I find.

[ShadowcatX]

(but analyze device uses object resistance to resist, so unless you are analyzing a a large stick it probably won't help a lot)

Darn it! That was an important part for me to have not thought about.

Sorry OP.

[Blazrath]

Its alright, nothing is set in stone right now and this is why I was asking, so I don't get caught up in a situation with a worthless spell and such, hahahaha.

[Blazrath]

So with everything thats been said, I finally got around to making a first draft and I must admit, I deviated from the original idea. With how you do not get spells with Enchanter for free, it really, REALLY hurt any build I had since I had to spread out my karma in spells, skills and qualities and unless I could convince a GM that 'hey, I'm hampered here, you mind if I get the same number as spells or more at char gen as a mage would?' I won't. Its too maddening, I'd rather do a mage build where I put everything into Enchanting and let Summoning be never really touched cause then I could get qualities to help boost alchemy at first.

But even then I still kinda cheated and went the Mystic Adept to hit a couple of deals. I went with Sum to 10 cause I can see it working pretty well and got Attributes and Skills A, Magic C, rest at E and I'll try to go throw the builds fast

B 3, A 4(5), R 3(4), S 4, C 2, I 6, L 5, W 5
Limits: P 5, M 7, S 5, A 7
Mentor Spirit: Forbidden Arcana Spider*
Enchanting 6(+2 Alchemy**), Stealth 4+2, Athletics 1(k), Outdoors 1(k)
Unarmed Combat 6, Archery or Pistols 6(+2 Bows/Revolver), Artisan 5, Assensing 5, Perception 5(+2 Visual), Arcana 5, Blades 5(+2 Knives), Armorer 5, Counterspelling 1(k), Chemistry 1(k), Escape Artist 1(k), Spellcasting 1(k), First Aide 1(k)
Archer Adept PP(4): Enhanced Accuracy Archery, Focused Archery 3, Improved Reflexes 1, Combat Sense 1, Improved Agility 1
Gunner Adept PP(4): Enhanced Accuracy Pistols, Improved Reflexes 1, Combat Sense 1, Improved Agility 1, Nimble Fingers, Rapid Draw

Weapon***
Dynamic Tension Bow 9P, AP -1, Acc 7 (Personalized Grip) 1,300 Nuyen
Lemat 2072 8P, AP -1, Ammo 9, Acc 9 (Personalized Grip, Smartgun Internal, Gas Vent 3, Melee Hardening, x4 Speed Loaders, Concealed Quick Draw) 3,735 Nuyen
Ruger Superhawk 9P, AP -2, Ammo 6, Acc 9 (Personalized Grip, Smartgun Internal, Gas Vent 3, Melee Hardening, x4 Speed Loaders, Concealed Quick Draw) 2,375 Nuyen
Cavalier Deputy 7P, AP -1, Ammo 7, Acc 10 (Personalized Grip, Smartgun Internal, Gas Vent 3, Melee Hardening, x4 Speed Loaders, Concealed Quick Draw) 2,025 Nuyen

Tradition: Thinking Chaos would be a nice fit.
Archery Spells: Acid Stream, Napalm, Heal, Armor, Physical Barrier
Gunner Spells: Napalm, Heal, Armor, Physical Barrier, Gecko Crawl

*: Now, this is a mentor I feel like goes more hand in with the Archery Aspect of this build as you are wanting to be able to sneak around and silently use a bow to take down your prey and therefore you are wanting to focus more on the planning aspects of getting what needs to be done when for a clean run. As for the Gunner Build, when using his main weapon its gonna be loud and therefore I think you'll need a more flexible feel to making a plan and would want to take a different mentor that is good with that.

**: So this is contingent on what you grab as your weapon, cause touch with Archery would be a good fit while I think command on the Gunner is absolutely needed for your mileage. I am up for suggestions though.

***: Personally, if I invest money into getting an Alchemy Focus, I'll want it to stay around for a while and I feel like being able to change the strength of the bow to match your maximum at all times is a good way to do that. Now for the revolvers. While FA did introduce the ability to create magic bullets, thats a large investment and honestly even if I went gun use, I don't think I'd use them. Just thinking about the logistics of making and storing each bullet until its time for their use, it gives me a slight headache. No, what I would work on is having the blank casing hold the alchemy. Not as a bullet to be fired, but have the spell shoot out of the barrel of the gun to hit your enemies. I believe with my research, that is available to do.

Now, looking at the spells you may wonder why then I have 2 combat spells with the archery build and 1 with the gunner. Its simple really, with archery especially with Silent Kills, you sometimes need to confirm that person will be killed instead of hoping that the arrow itself will do the job. Overkill? A wee bit, but sometimes you just wanna make sure the Troll goes down in one hit. So with that, one is for single target elimination, the other is ambushing a group with one spell. Might grab more combat spells.

Now, the gunner is kinda the exact opposite. He'll be more up close and personal with taking out the targets, whether going for your throat with a combat knife or trying to shock you into submission. The Revolver is meant for when things go loud. And the spell? Think of it as an 'Oh shit' panic button and yes, I would be grabbing more elements down the road just in case. In this instance though, you'd want a command based alchemy. I do feel like I need throwing though with build for later with some of the spells.

Personally, out of the Revolvers, I like the Lemat. The 9 bullets help with not needing to reload as often and the shotgun shell barrel I feel like is the perfect place to keep the alchemy preparation until it is used.

Now then, did I screw up anywhere and make this a useless character? Oh, also, does the Alchemy Focus help when using the alchemical preparation like add dice to when it goes off or just during creation?

[FST_Gemstar]

Ya... i don't know what alchemy is really getting you in this build. You end up having a weapons specialist type character who is mediocre and several ways of combat, who can make alchemical preps that are likely to be very low Force at best that don't really compliment the character's skillsets or add a lot to the team.... 

You don't need enhanced accuracy adept powers, your dice pools aren't high enough to justify them. I would also drop Improved Agility. Move those points into improved skill in your weapon of choice, and then pick up an Improved Agility alchemical spell. 

I don't understand your skills... where are your 10  skill groups points going?

and alchemy foci only help during creation.

[Blazrath]

I don't understand your skills... where are your 10  skill groups points going?

So I put just the points in them, not what the End Results.

Skill Groups: Enchanting 6, Which with Magic 4 give the dice roll of 10. Alchemy has a spot for a specialization, so then thats 12 dice, and finally a +4 Alchemy focus is 16 total dice or 18 if its a Manipulation Spell. This specialization should probably focus on what I'd be rolling more of.

Stealth uses up the other 4 Group Skills and with the Forbidden Arcana Spider Mentor you get a +2 here for starting out with skill of 6 at Char Gen, meaning that Sneaking is at 10 (or 11 if you keep the increase to Agility), Palming and Disguise at 12 dice.

Athletics 1(k) and Outdoors 1(k) were bought with Karma

Unarmed Combat 10 or 11
Archery or Pistols 10 or 11(+2 Bows/Revolver) Its suppose to be one or the other here.
Artisan 11
Assensing 11
Perception 11(+2 Visual)
Arcana 10
Blades 9 or 10(+2 Knives)
Armorer 10

Rest bought with Karma
Counterspelling 5
Chemistry 6
Escape Artist 5 or 6
Spellcasting 5
First Aide 6

As for the spells, these can be swapped around, I thought having a Health Spell would help, especially since the Atomizer is a thing now so you can just spray on a spell with a contact trigger, the one to two combat spells is for added damage capability and elemental, Armor to help give everyone a small boost to soaking physical damage that may come their way, Physical Barrier is to block people chasing us from going down an alleyway and Gecko Strip to climb the sides of buildings and such as a way to get in to places not easily found.

Though to be fair, if I went more gun then bow, I'd swap the Strength 4 to 3 and then put it into Agility.

[FST_Gemstar]

I missed the Enchanting skill group 6.... While I like the concepts of artificing and disenchanting, I have yet to see them applied in a real game meaningfully. They really aren't PC skills...

[Blazrath]

I missed the Enchanting skill group 6.... While I like the concepts of artificing and disenchanting, I have yet to see them applied in a real game meaningfully. They really aren't PC skills...

I can agree with disenchanting, it falls under the Banishing category for me. Personally, if I go the enchanting route, I still would want points put in artificing just in the off chance that I use it and you never know how much downtime there could be. Plus this idea came about cause of a friend looking to possibly start up an open world game online and figured that I could time not doing runs every week to sell pcs stuff. But even then I still see it as a niche deal.