[忍]

In run and gun (I think) there is a brand loyalty quality. Would all allow a player to specialize in a brand as opposed to say tazers or semi-autos?

[ScytheKnight]

Umm.. sorry but I don't understand the question.

[PiXeL01]

It gives you bonuses (not boni) for using a specific brand and penalties should you use anything else.
...
The way I use it is if a character has this and wants a specific item that is listed under another company name then they can pay 10% more and get a knock off as all the companies reverse engineer and send out their own extremely similar item all the time.

[忍]

I'm sorry I should have been more specific. I meant a Skill* specialization.

IE pistols 4 (+2 Ares)

[Rooks]

I'd love to see a list of all the companies and their subsidiaries

[Rooks]

I'm sorry I should have been more specific. I meant a Skill* specialization.

IE pistols 4 (+2 Ares)

sure go for it specializations aren't a exhaustive list it's like a favourite item quality

[bangbangtequila]

I don't see any issue. I was under the impression that it cost 7 karma for a specialization though? Which makes it a lot more expensive then brand loyalty. On top of that, you're paying for a totally reasonable specialization that would overlap with many other specializations which would be more expansive. For example: Pistols (Ares) would give your Predator V a nice boost. (Semi-Automatics) would provide the same bonus to the same weapons, while also benefiting almost every heavy, light, and hold-out pistol. If you want to restrict yourself to JUST Ares weapons instead of a much broader and inclusive list, at the cost of 7 karma, go nuts.

[ScytheKnight]

Although it does sounds lightly like you want the effect without the downside...

[Eisenengel]

Brand Loyalty is a 3 pt quality. It can be purchased (same cost, apparently) at either the product or manufacturer level. At product level, it's heavy pistols, or SMG's, or similarly limited. At the manufacturer level, it's... everything. You get +1 dice with your brand, -1 dice with everything else.

Now, using it for a skill... say, gymnastics (ares). Erm. This makes no sense. Let's try again. Pistols (Ares). Okay. This makes sense, sort of. You get a bonus for pistols made by Ares, and a penalty for everyone else's. Of course, for the pistols skill in particular.... Ares makes rather a lot of guns. Pistols (Taurus) would be a far worse deal, but cost the same. That seems like an argument against it. Would subsidiaries count? If you took SMG (Saeder-Krupp) would H&K apply since it's a subsidiary of SK (Is it? I kind of assumed it was... SK or Ares.). It is a bit of a nonsensical bonus when ... two companies both make a basic pistol, and you get a +1 dice with the one with one stamp on it, and a -1 with the other. Would you get the bonus if your pal convinced you that the sharpie - drawn Ares logo on (another gun from another company) was real?

As a GM, I think I'd nix it, simply because it's rather vague, and I don't want discussions about wether this or that is owned by (company) all the time, or if they make their own version of it, etc. There's more fun things to do with our time. However, if it fit really well with a character concept, I'd probably allow it. That goes for the quality too, btw - I don't like it, but if someone really wanted it and it fits, sure.

[PiXeL01]

I would not allow Specializations based on brands. If you want bonus for being loyal then you have to invest in the quality and face the drawbacks.

[Marcus Gideon]

As a GM, I think I'd nix it, simply because it's rather vague, and I don't want discussions about whether this or that is owned by (company) all the time, or if they make their own version of it, etc. There's more fun things to do with our time. However, if it fit really well with a character concept, I'd probably allow it. That goes for the quality too, btw - I don't like it, but if someone really wanted it and it fits, sure.

Agreed. I even made a character named Ares, who basically embodied this quality wholeheartedly. He only uses Ares pistols and rifles, he carries the Ares Monosword, his Chromo jacket usually displayed the Ares logo across the back (which is sometimes uses to disguise himself as KE). But I didn't bother taking this quality b/c it's just... weird. There's really no reason why you'd be better at shooting one pistol over another just by the manufacturer. Especially given how broad and spanning the skills are meant to be. Pistols skill covers any kind of pistol evenly. Brand name doesn't mean much in a grand scheme like that.

[bangbangtequila]

Well, there are certain things to justify it. For example, a similar set up and platform, identical gun sights and HUD set up for smart guns, same locations for safeties and ejections and slide locks. Then there's the mental bonus of using something familiar that you have a great confidence in, which is more then enough to justify 1 die in 20+ dice pools.

An example would be battlefield four. There are several red dot sights, but I only use one brand because the others had an odd reticle or narrow sight lines. Training your mind to use a familiar set up absolutely increases your proficiency with weapons.

EDIT: Also, the specialization would stack with the quality, not replace it. I think it works fine, for reasons I listed above. Specializations work in conjunction anyway, and you can easily stack that bonus using more vague terms, so why not allow a character to follow their neat character quirk? To cover all Ares weapons with it would cost 28 karma - Pistols, Long Arms, Automatics, and Heavy Weapons. So you get a 1 die bonus to every Ares weapon, tool kit, B&E gear, etc for 3 karma and a negative aspect, or you can get a 2 die bonus to a specific category of Ares weapons for 7 using an established rule and mechanic, which would essentially mean you roll 3 less dice whenever you're not using Ares weapons.

[ScytheKnight]

The other thing it mentions is that you don't just happen to use that same brand, you're more or less obsessed with them.

You're looking at something closer akin to Pontiac or Hemmi fans, they know the cars and engines inside out, know all the tricks to get everything running smoothly, know every maintenance quirk, etc.

[PiXeL01]

Why take the quality of you can just specialize and avoid the restrictions by your obsession. 25 karma seems to be worth it

[Dinendae]

It reminds me of earlier games where you could specialize in semi-automatic pistols, and then further specialize into a specific gun; 4th edition didn't do it, but I'm thinking 1st-3rd editions?