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Improved Sense: which enhancements?

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ZeConster

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« on: <08-24-13/1557:55> »
The Improved Sense Adept powers is a bit vague about which sense enhancements you can get (probably so they won't have to rewrite it if they add sense enhancement 'ware in other books), so I'm curious as to which enhancements you can actually get.
Quote from: Page 310
Any sense enhancement provided by cyberware or bioware can be provided by this power, unless that enhancement either gives you bonus dice to Perception Tests or needs wireless to work (or both).
Right now, I think it's like this:

Allowed:
  • Low-light vision
  • Thermographic vision
  • "Low frequency hearing" (not actually a 'ware thing?)
  • "High frequency hearing" (not actually a 'ware thing?)

Not allowed:
  • Olfactory Booster (gives a dice pool modifier to scent-based Perception Tests)
  • Taste Booster (gives a dice pool modifier to taste-based Perception Tests)

Not sure:
  • Ultrasound
  • Flare compensation
  • Vision magnification
  • Select Sound Filter (not very useful without recording capability, anyway)

DigitalZombie

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« Reply #1 on: <08-24-13/1640:46> »
Id say ultrasound, vision magnification and select sound filter are good enough. I guess flare compensation doesnt really count as a sense, so that one wouldnt work.
Low\high frequencies would likely be covered in a future book, so would be a houserule for now I guess.

Mithlas

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« Reply #2 on: <08-24-13/1643:47> »
I don't have access to 5E at the moment (book belongs to a friend), but if they've changed things that's interesting, because:
Quote from: Improved Sense, S4A page 196
Flare Compensation: Your eyes adapt quickly to intense light, allowing you to avoid the effects of flash grenades and similar weapons. This power functions exactly like the flare compensation vision enhancement (S4A 333).

Sound Dampening: Your ears are protected from loud noises and adjust quickly to sudden changes in noise level. The sound dampening power functions exactly like the cybernetic damper enhancement (S4A 341).

Improved Scent: You can identify scents in the same way as a bloodhound. You can identify individuals by scent alone, and can tell if someone whose scent you know has been in an area recently with a successful Perception Test. The strong smells of most sprawls impose modifiers on the use of this sense.

Improved Taste: You can recognize the ingredients of food or beverage by taste alone. A successful Perception Test allows adepts with Chemistry or a similar Knowledge skill to identify ingestive poisons and drugs concealed in food or drink. A successful Perception Test allows adepts to determine if a sample of water is pure enough to drink.

There's no indication in 4th edition for why Ultrasound wouldn't be valid (it is by definition hearing at a frequency higher than normal human hearing, after all), though you might need something else in order to be able to use it as the cyberware due to the sensor not only having a receiver (which can be used alone in passive mode) but also transmits sonic pulses at above-human hearing. I think that Voice Control or a bioware might do the trick, though. Otherwise you'd still be able to use it in the passive sense, which would tell you when where an active Ultrasonic sensor was active once it enters your perception radius.
EDIT: As Giabralter has stated, and I should've made more clear, this would make for an echolocation power, not something as detailed/precise as the visual overlay ultrasound sensor.

If 5E doesn't explicitly say that those things are different and specifically not valid for adepts, I don't see why the things I pointed out that you have listed as either "not sure" or "not allowed" wouldn't be possible - though if the restriction is about the bonus dice pool, then a variant that allows the test (ie chemistry as pointed out in S4A) without giving bonus die (which it doesn't in S4A) should help give options without breaking balance. I grant that SR5 doesn't actually list all of the options in S4A, but that makes sense because there's still another book for magic to come out eventually and they might have wanted to put some of those options into a more focused book and I do like the idea of the tactile sensitivity (which curiously wasn't expressly identified in S4A). One of the things I liked about Shadowrun is that you have a two-sided split in the movement beyond the standard human and either cyberware or magic was an option for doing so. Hopefully this should help clarify things for you, or at least help stimulate discussion with others.

I do agree with your point about the confusion as to whether select sound filter would apply when you can't exactly record it. Granted, maybe it could provide a reduction in dice pool penalty due to distraction.
« Last Edit: <08-25-13/0224:04> by Mithlas »

Giabralter

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« Reply #3 on: <08-24-13/1954:19> »
The Improved Sense Adept powers is a bit vague about which sense enhancements you can get (probably so they won't have to rewrite it if they add sense enhancement 'ware in other books), so I'm curious as to which enhancements you can actually get.
Quote from: Page 310
Any sense enhancement provided by cyberware or bioware can be provided by this power, unless that enhancement either gives you bonus dice to Perception Tests or needs wireless to work (or both).

You are correct. It cannot be explicitly detailed as to which enhancments because of the possibly other wares books in the future.

The exclusion of "bonus dice to perception tests" is because there's a seperate power called Enhanced Perception which does just that. The Vision Enhancement and Audio Enhancement improvements would be excluded.

Flare Comp, Sound Dampening, Olfactory Booster, Taste Booster, Vision Mag, Low light, Thermal, and Vision Mag are all acceptable improved senses. Think "The Sentinel". What you can't do with this power is gain extra dice to mimic the cybernetic equivillant.

Ultrasound would not be viable as it turns sound into a visual image. BUT ask your GM about echolocation as a sense.






ZeConster

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« Reply #4 on: <08-24-13/2002:13> »
Actually, the exclusion bit definitely excludes the Olfactory and Taste Booster, since they give bonus dice to Perception Tests (just not all of them) - plus they have Ratings, which doesn't really work well with the power, since it has no levels.

Giabralter

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« Reply #5 on: <08-24-13/2032:37> »
Then the adept can call it improved smell and Improved taste (not to be mistaken for Olfactory Booster and Taste booster).

If you want extra dice, then also buy Enhanced Perception as it covers all senses.

ZeConster

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« Reply #6 on: <08-24-13/2039:20> »
I'm not interested in extra dice, though, and since Improved Smell and Improved Taste aren't included in SR5's "aside from 'ware enhancements, you can also get these things" list, I don't think they're available as options: only Direction Sense, Improved Tactile, Perfect Pitch, and Human Scale are.

Giabralter

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« Reply #7 on: <08-24-13/2051:14> »
p. 310
"This power gives you sensory improvements not normally possessed by your character’s metatype. These improvements may include"

it's not unfortunately, an exclusive or exaustive list.


Arioch

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« Reply #8 on: <08-25-13/2152:10> »
For a power like enhanced smell there's no reason that the power has to give you a bonus to the dice roll. The fact is the power gives you a roll, based on smelling something, that you may not get if you didn't have the power.

The idea that as a physical adept that follows dog I get an ability to have improved smell fits very well with the concept of the character...