[mtfeeney = Baron]

I've not seen a rule for playing dead when almost killed.  Is that in the books, or is it a house rule that most GMs have for avoiding party wipes?

[Mad Hamish]

Essence value. About it, really. Strict reading of the rules and a strict GM would say that you couldn't feign death upon receiving a nearly fatal blow, so an attacker that will continue to fire upon active threats would kill you where he wouldn't just knock you out and move on.

How exactly would a Platelet factory stop you feigning death?
Why exactly would a Platelet factory cause somebody to not ignore you once you're unconcious?

[JoeNapalm]

Yup, still can't conceive of a situation where I would want to take more damage, rather than less damage.

I've run a character with the Platelet Factory / Trauma Damper combo, and have never thought "Damn! Soaked ANOTHER point of damage! I gotta get those frakking things removed!"

-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist

[nullnostalgia]

Yup, still can't conceive of a situation where I would want to take more damage, rather than less damage.

I've run a character with the Platelet Factory / Trauma Damper combo, and have never thought "Damn! Soaked ANOTHER point of damage! I gotta get those frakking things removed!"

-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist

This is beautiful in both its simplicity and bluntness.

[WellsIDidIt]

Except that the example never brings a resistance roll into the question.

And the trauma damper has the exact same wording problem.

So once again... there's nothing in the text to CONCLUSIVELY state whether it's pre or post soak.   There's been no word from the powers that be either to state that it should work one way or another.

It specifically mentions taking place when ticking off boxes on the condition monitor. When does that occur, before or after the resistance roll?

[Wildcard]

Essence value. About it, really. Strict reading of the rules and a strict GM would say that you couldn't feign death upon receiving a nearly fatal blow, so an attacker that will continue to fire upon active threats would kill you where he wouldn't just knock you out and move on.

How exactly would a Platelet factory stop you feigning death?

How exactly do you not understand the difference between not being able to feign death, and being knocked out?

Why exactly would a Platelet factory cause somebody to not ignore you once you're unconcious?

Exactly how pedantic do you have to be to come up with arguments? Or are you honestly asking me to prove a negative?

[Falconer]

Wells you miss my point... by RAW you can't make that distinction.   The example is not RAW, they're meant to demonstrate the intent of RAW or RAI.

You can make a RAI argument that this is how it's intended to function.   But you can't say that someone playing pink-mohawk and doing it the other way is ignoring the rules.. you can at best make an argument they're ignoring the intent of the rules but not the letter of the rules.   But you can't go so far to say that they're house ruling because they're following the letter of the rules.


Here's another case where RAW/RAI is unclear... the first fluff sentence of the implant deals with Physical damage.  But the rules sentence deals with ALL damage... is it intended that the platelets only work on physical and physical only?   Or do the platelets work on all damage physical or stun?

Either way is technically correct.   So it's going to come down to GM call.

[Pyromaster13]

As to feigning death...

Just get a metabolic arrester (augmentation pg. 66) so your GM stops complaining that you're trying to add rules into the game that already exist in other 'ware.

If you don't like the fact that your teammates may not know you're still alive and leave you behind, that's your fault for making fake death too effective. 

[mtfeeney = Baron]

Seriously, I've checked and checked again.  Where are these 'feign death' rules?  How can it be RAW if it wasn't W?

[Aryeonos]

Slab, page 76 of arsenal. It's a drug that, rigged to an auto injector, could easily allow you to feign death. Such so that you'd need to take said person to a hospital to check if they're alive.

[Novocrane]

There's also some other methods of arresting metabolic functions - magic and 'ware, iirc.

[mtfeeney = Baron]

Oh, so it's not just a "drop to the ground and pretend you're dead" rule...  It's something you would actually need to prepare for.  Ok, thanks.   

[Aryeonos]

I suppose, I would guess you could make a feign death roll as a willpower+agility roll if you really wanted setting it as a threshold for your opponents perception to notice you're faking it, increasing their threshold based on your wound modifiers.

[JoeNapalm]

Wells you miss my point... by RAW you can't make that distinction.   The example is not RAW, they're meant to demonstrate the intent of RAW or RAI.

You can make a RAI argument that this is how it's intended to function.   But you can't say that someone playing pink-mohawk and doing it the other way is ignoring the rules.. you can at best make an argument they're ignoring the intent of the rules but not the letter of the rules.   But you can't go so far to say that they're house ruling because they're following the letter of the rules.


Here's another case where RAW/RAI is unclear... the first fluff sentence of the implant deals with Physical damage.  But the rules sentence deals with ALL damage... is it intended that the platelets only work on physical and physical only?   Or do the platelets work on all damage physical or stun?

Either way is technically correct.   So it's going to come down to GM call.

Rule 0 always applies - it is always going to come down to the GM.

That said, the rules clearly state that that Platelet Factories subtract one point from the Damage TRACK when two or more points are taken to the Damage TRACK.

Look at Trauma Dampers:

Whenever Physical or Stun damage is inflicted upon a char- acter with a trauma damper, the damper helps reduce the damage. If the damage is Physical, shift 1 box from Physical to Stun; if the trauma stems from Stun damage, subtract 1 box. For example, a character who suffers a Physical wound with a DV 6 marks off 5 boxes of Physical Damage Track and 1 box on Stun Damage Track; if it had been Stun damage with DV 6, the character would only mark off 5 boxes on his Stun Damage Track.

In characters implanted with damage compensators, the trauma damper will only operate properly after the compensators’ ability to handle Physical and/or Stun damage has been exceeded. When combined with a platelet factory, the trauma damper is applied first, then the platelet factory effect is applied (i.e., the platelet fac- tory is only beneficial if 3 or more boxes of damage are suffered).

And that is if we choose to ignore the obvious...which is that PF operates by stopping the bleeding. If you apply it before the damage is taken, you're not bleeding.

Interpreting it the other way is a serious power jump for a 0.2 essence cost.

-Jn-
City of Brass Expatriate

[WellsIDidIt]

Examples that are in the rulebook are most assuredly RAW. The rules obviously override the examples if there is a contradiction (such as with damaging barriers), but if there isn't a contradiction, they are just as much part of the RAW as any other text in the book. In this case there is no contradiction with the actual rules. The example clarifies exactly how the implants (and the combination of them) function, which is, after all, the entire reason for having an example.

So, unless there is a rule that states you mark the track before the soak roll, there is a clear RAW way for it to be handled and a group doing it the other way is playing wrong if they're trying to maintain a RAW game.