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Chummer for 5th Edition

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twoheadedboy

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« Reply #465 on: <08-21-14/1345:01> »
Don't know if it has been mentioned before (could not find it by Ctrl+f on the print page) but it seems to me that Chummer is calculating limits wrong.

example:
A character with 4 Log, 5 Int and 6 Will
(4*2+5+6)=19
19/3=6.333
Roundup(6.333)=7

Chummer seems to be rounding down on that last step but all limit calculations should be rounded up [as per table on pg 101 in core, also text on pg 100] (big reason for getting that one point that takes you from e.g. 18 total to 19 total).

I think you're thinking of a ceiling function. Rounding up likely means that if you were equal or past 6.5, you'd hit 7; since you aren't, you're at six. That's how I understand it, anyway. The book itself doesn't make any distinction in terms of digits over/under five.

reyjinn

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« Reply #466 on: <08-21-14/1352:36> »
Don't know if it has been mentioned before (could not find it by Ctrl+f on the print page) but it seems to me that Chummer is calculating limits wrong.

example:
A character with 4 Log, 5 Int and 6 Will
(4*2+5+6)=19
19/3=6.333
Roundup(6.333)=7

Chummer seems to be rounding down on that last step but all limit calculations should be rounded up [as per table on pg 101 in core, also text on pg 100] (big reason for getting that one point that takes you from e.g. 18 total to 19 total).

I think you're thinking of a ceiling function. Rounding up likely means that if you were equal or past 6.5, you'd hit 7; since you aren't, you're at six. That's how I understand it, anyway. The book itself doesn't make any distinction in terms of digits over/under five.
You might certainly be right, I've always taken it to basically mean the ceiling function, otherwise why specify round UP. I saw it as the same terminology used in spreadsheet programs ROUNDDOWN() vs ROUNDUP().
« Last Edit: <08-21-14/1438:24> by reyjinn »
[Time&Date|Place|Area] "Dialogue" "Non-English" >>Matrix/"Commlink" "Astral" <<Text&email>> Internal&"subvocal"

ZeConster

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« Reply #467 on: <08-21-14/1421:00> »
I think you're thinking of a ceiling function. Rounding up likely means that if you were equal or past 6.5, you'd hit 7; since you aren't, you're at six. That's how I understand it, anyway. The book itself doesn't make any distinction in terms of digits over/under five.
Taking the ceiling is what is typically meant with "round up". What you describe (round towards the nearest integer, with half being rounded up) is "round half up".

Adam

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« Reply #468 on: <08-21-14/1452:01> »
In programming terms, it's "ceiling". Per Shadowrun's core book on page 101, it's "round up". In either event in this case they mean the same thing.

Edit: Ok, I just tried making a character with the stats you specify (4 LOG, 5 INT, 6 WIL) and it's showing me a Mental Limit of 7. Exactly what it should.  Could you (reyjinn) email me a copy of your character so I can try to figure out what's going on?  srchummer5@gmail.com
« Last Edit: <08-21-14/1500:08> by Adam »

reyjinn

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« Reply #469 on: <08-21-14/1504:37> »
In programming terms, it's "ceiling". Per Shadowrun's core book on page 101, it's "round up". In either event in this case they mean the same thing.

Edit: Ok, I just tried making a character with the stats you specify (4 LOG, 5 INT, 6 WIL) and it's showing me a Mental Limit of 7. Exactly what it should.  Could you (reyjinn) email me a copy of your character so I can try to figure out what's going on?  srchummer5@gmail.com
No problem. I'll shoot you an e-mail with all relevant info that i can think of.
[Time&Date|Place|Area] "Dialogue" "Non-English" >>Matrix/"Commlink" "Astral" <<Text&email>> Internal&"subvocal"

Ariketh

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« Reply #470 on: <08-21-14/1714:51> »
While working on the custom armors in the other thread, I found some armor bugs:

Full Body Armor: Chem Seal and Full Body Armor: Environmental Adaptation should be mods specific to Full Body Armor and not separate armor, as they have availability modifications and not absolute values. (Much like there are specific weapon mods)

Spelling Error: Armadillow in Evo Armadillow Armored Spacesuit

Form Fitting Body Armor doesn't calculate correctly in total armor on the character sheet.

The Mortimer of London Greatcoat and Ulysses Coat should have a standalone value of 10 and the Argentum coat should have a value of 12, in addition to their stacking values of 3, 3, and 4 respectively.

-Ariketh

Adam

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« Reply #471 on: <08-21-14/2022:47> »
While working on the custom armors in the other thread, I found some armor bugs:

Full Body Armor: Chem Seal and Full Body Armor: Environmental Adaptation should be mods specific to Full Body Armor and not separate armor, as they have availability modifications and not absolute values. (Much like there are specific weapon mods)

Spelling Error: Armadillow in Evo Armadillow Armored Spacesuit

Form Fitting Body Armor doesn't calculate correctly in total armor on the character sheet.

The Mortimer of London Greatcoat and Ulysses Coat should have a standalone value of 10 and the Argentum coat should have a value of 12, in addition to their stacking values of 3, 3, and 4 respectively.

-Ariketh

I'll get those fixed as quickly as I can.  If you would, recheck the Mortimer of London coats and Form Fitting Body Armor because those were addressed in build 5.137 and should be working correctly now.  If there's still a problem, let me know because I'll probably need to get more info.

Adam

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« Reply #472 on: <08-21-14/2035:35> »
I need a little help from you good folks...  I've been working on a prototype for a new character sheet during my little bits of downtime for the last week and I'm trying to make sure that what I'm building will actually work with real characters.  So I'm going to ask you guys to send in character files to me via email so I can both see how they'll apply to the prototype I've been working with and later down the line when I've got a working version I can use them to test with.

I have a very definite need for characters that are deckers or technomancers.

Thank you guys for your help...
Adam
srchummer5@gmail.com

Ariketh

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« Reply #473 on: <08-21-14/2056:02> »
I'll get those fixed as quickly as I can.  If you would, recheck the Mortimer of London coats and Form Fitting Body Armor because those were addressed in build 5.137 and should be working correctly now.  If there's still a problem, let me know because I'll probably need to get more info.

FFBA now works. I thought I had updated, and I hadn't. Sorry for that.

The coats are still buggy, but it's deceptive.

The armor value is fine if the coat is the only piece of armor in my inventory. The moment I add another piece of armor the coat armor drops to 3 (or 4) additional armor; regardless of which armor is equipped (or not). This is true regardless of the order in which the armor is purchased. The moment the other non-coat armor is deleted, the coat pops back up to 10 (or 12). Adding/removing additional armor beyond the first two won't update the coat armor either. There is also no difference if I use the 'unequip all' button or if I manually uncheck the equipped box(es).

Hope that helps.

-Ariketh

Adam

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« Reply #474 on: <08-21-14/2246:02> »
I'll get those fixed as quickly as I can.  If you would, recheck the Mortimer of London coats and Form Fitting Body Armor because those were addressed in build 5.137 and should be working correctly now.  If there's still a problem, let me know because I'll probably need to get more info.

FFBA now works. I thought I had updated, and I hadn't. Sorry for that.

The coats are still buggy, but it's deceptive.

The armor value is fine if the coat is the only piece of armor in my inventory. The moment I add another piece of armor the coat armor drops to 3 (or 4) additional armor; regardless of which armor is equipped (or not). This is true regardless of the order in which the armor is purchased. The moment the other non-coat armor is deleted, the coat pops back up to 10 (or 12). Adding/removing additional armor beyond the first two won't update the coat armor either. There is also no difference if I use the 'unequip all' button or if I manually uncheck the equipped box(es).

Hope that helps.

-Ariketh

Ok, let me make sure I'm understanding how those pieces are supposed to work.

If I put on the Argentum Coat by itself, 12 armor.
If I add a helmet, 14 armor (12 from the coat, 2 from the helmet).
Now let's add an Armor Vest.  At this point I should get 9 from the vest, 2 from the helmet, and 4 from the coat as it's no longer the main layer but just adding to it so a total of 15.

Basically, it's looking at your other armor pieces and if any of them are fixed values rather than additive (in other words if there are pieces that don't have an armor value starting with a "+"), then it uses the additive value for the coat rather than the fixed value.

Now there definitely is a bug in how it's treating armor that you own but don't have equipped.  I missed that entirely and will update the armor to ignore unequipped armor.

I'm not sure if I explained that well but let me know if you're seeing an error in my thinking.

Ariketh

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« Reply #475 on: <08-21-14/2347:58> »
Basically, it's looking at your other armor pieces and if any of them are fixed values rather than additive (in other words if there are pieces that don't have an armor value starting with a "+"), then it uses the additive value for the coat rather than the fixed value.

Now there definitely is a bug in how it's treating armor that you own but don't have equipped.  I missed that entirely and will update the armor to ignore unequipped armor.

I'm not sure if I explained that well but let me know if you're seeing an error in my thinking.

Yep, you got it. The only bug is the unequipped armor one. Sorry I wasn't more clear.

-Ariketh

Adam

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« Reply #476 on: <08-22-14/0717:41> »
Just a small bug fix update.  I've been continuing to focus on the new character sheets and am slowly making progress.  Thank you to everyone who sent in character files for me to use in testing, they've been immensely helpful.  I can always use more and if anyone has a decker rather than technomancer, I'm still needing a few of those for testing.  Thank you!

Build 5.138 (beta)
- Fixed the spelling on the name of the Evo Armadillo Armored Spacesuit.
- Fixed the calculation of the Mortimer of London coats when dealing with unequipped armor.
- Updated Chem Seal and Environmental Adaptation for Full Body Armor to be mods for Full Body Armor rather than armors themselves.
- For the Translator: Fixed both the Page and Translated columns so that they correctly save changes.

Kincaid

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« Reply #477 on: <08-22-14/1004:56> »
Mnemonic Enhancers don't seem to be adding their rating to knowledge and language skills or to the Mental Limit.
« Last Edit: <08-22-14/1033:13> by Kincaid »
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TimTurry

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« Reply #478 on: <08-22-14/1403:46> »
Fantastic work.  Setting the bar real high for future char gen software.

While on the subject of armors, armors that have armor and a modifier are only treated as their modifier.  Ex:
Mortimer of London: Argentum Coat is armor 10 or +3 if a modifier to other Mortimer armor worn.  When I wear it all my itself, it shows up as armor 4 (!).  In addition, it penalizes the agility if worn with a str of 1 (it should only do that when the modifier is used).    Also (piling on) it should add a +1 to social tests, and none of the Chr skill are modified by it.

Completely tangential: It would be great if the ammunition that you bought would be listed under the weapon, with it modification calculated.  Ex:  pistol with regular armor ap7; under it, AP ammunition is ap8 ...

bonus: I have 1 karma left at the end of char generation.  It is not listed on the character sheet.  Likewise current edge is blank.

Lusis

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« Reply #479 on: <08-22-14/1618:33> »
Getting an error related to the Translator file when I try to update.

Here's the details:
Quote
See the end of this message for details on invoking
just-in-time (JIT) debugging instead of this dialog box.

************** Exception Text **************
System.IO.FileNotFoundException: C:\Users\Home\Desktop\SHADOWRUN\Shadowrun 5th Edition\Chummer5\Translator.exe
   at System.Diagnostics.FileVersionInfo.GetVersionInfo(String fileName)
   at Chummer.frmUpdate.FetchXML()
   at Chummer.frmUpdate.frmUpdate_Load(Object sender, EventArgs e)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Form.OnLoad(EventArgs e)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Form.OnCreateControl()
   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.CreateControl(Boolean fIgnoreVisible)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.CreateControl()
   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WmShowWindow(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WndProc(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.ScrollableControl.WndProc(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.ContainerControl.WndProc(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Form.WmShowWindow(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Form.WndProc(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.OnMessage(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.WndProc(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.NativeWindow.Callback(IntPtr hWnd, Int32 msg, IntPtr wparam, IntPtr lparam)


************** Loaded Assemblies **************
mscorlib
    Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 4.0.30319.18444 built by: FX451RTMGDR
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.NET/Framework/v4.0.30319/mscorlib.dll
----------------------------------------
Chummer5
    Assembly Version: 0.0.5.137
    Win32 Version: 0.0.5.137
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Users/Home/Desktop/SHADOWRUN/Shadowrun%205th%20Edition/Chummer5/Chummer5.exe
----------------------------------------
System.Windows.Forms
    Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 4.0.30319.18408 built by: FX451RTMGREL
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Windows.Forms/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Windows.Forms.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Drawing
    Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 4.0.30319.18408 built by: FX451RTMGREL
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Drawing/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/System.Drawing.dll
----------------------------------------
System
    Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 4.0.30319.18408 built by: FX451RTMGREL
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Xml
    Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 4.0.30319.18408 built by: FX451RTMGREL
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Xml/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Xml.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Core
    Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 4.0.30319.18408 built by: FX451RTMGREL
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Core/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Core.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Configuration
    Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 4.0.30319.18408 built by: FX451RTMGREL
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Configuration/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/System.Configuration.dll
----------------------------------------

************** JIT Debugging **************
To enable just-in-time (JIT) debugging, the .config file for this
application or computer (machine.config) must have the
jitDebugging value set in the system.windows.forms section.
The application must also be compiled with debugging
enabled.

For example:

<configuration>
    <system.windows.forms jitDebugging="true" />
</configuration>

When JIT debugging is enabled, any unhandled exception
will be sent to the JIT debugger registered on the computer
rather than be handled by this dialog box.


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