Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Rules and such => Topic started by: kyoto kid on <01-29-19/1648:27>
-
...so let's say a decker has a Cyberdeck installed in her Cyberarm, would the Internal Router augmentation allow her to interact with the deck without giving her away as being the decker (particularly if she also has a Commlink running as well?).
-
Assuming a Cyberdeck can be installed in a cyberarm (it has a Capacity cost), then an internal router isn't even necessary. You already have a DNI to the device. The cyberdeck is controlled mentally.
Now, an internal router would potentially do other things, like guarantee that an installed datajack will give Noise Reduction. But an internal router isn't required to use implants.
-
...so you don't need wireless to control it?
-
No more so than if it were implanted in your head or even being held in your hands.
Why would you need wireless to control an implanted device?
-
...sill figuring out all this wireless jazz and so many descriptions of technology seem to tout "wireless bonuses ".
Last time I played/GM'd Shadowrun for a significant length of time was in 3e and then yes, everything was hardwired (including Smartlinks, and you got the full bonus)
-
An assumption in the matrix as of 5th edition is that everything talks to everything. Wirelessly. Things that don't are wierd (and called "throwbacks").
Wireless bonuses are over and above the general assumption that your gear/implant is already wirelessly communicating with everything else around it... they're literally a bonus for doing so.
Of course being wireless means you can be hacked wirelessly, so wireless bonuses also serve as a meta incentive to keep them running wirelessly despite the threat. The game wouldn't be any fun if everyone just shut wireless off on everything now would it?
-
I'm not sure what you're going to do on your Cyberdeck with the Wireless turned off. You could only hack stuff you're Directly Connected to via a UDP cable and you wouldn't need an Internal Router for that.
And Commlink plus Cyberdeck is usually of questionable utility as a Cyberdeck literally functions as a Commlink. If you need to create a PAN for your team's wireless gear a Commlink is usually needed as your Cyberdeck runs out of slots. But the new Custom Cyber Decks from Kill Code may wind up with a decent Rating though, depending on your budget.
And if you're a Decker you don't need an Internal Router, you should be invisible when running silent anyway. True story. Even the high threat rating NPC Spiders don't get much above 16 dice for Matrix Perception. Logic + Sleaze should be around 20, even on a budget. (Mostly because Smoke and Mirrors is bah-ro-ken..)
-
Yeah when I GM I basically pretend that turning wireless off isn't even a thing.
Having NPCs do it is nothing but a screw-you to deckers (and TMs).
-
I agree that wireless active is default and even 100% most common state. Ever character need a link, ever character needs an ID. No question asked.
Odds are overwhelmingly that tech character will be active. But many magic concept don't require more wireless activity then their link.
Where capacity rating of deck? Clearly form factor not really a meaningful issue.
-
Core Rulebook, Headware. Cyberdecks are
3 capacity in cyberlimbs if I remember correctly. 4 capacity.
-
Where capacity rating of deck? Clearly form factor not really a meaningful issue.
Core book, implanted Deck is 4. P. 453
-
I was expecting more 4's not bad.
-
...I looked at the ""custom decks but attributes are fixed and cannot be swapped (making the Quick Config quality the character has moot). The other drawback is Firewall as at chargen for the EX series (if you want it to run more than one programme) it is capped at 3 due to availability (rating x4). So neither is a very good option without blowing 10 Karma on the Restricted Gear quality (which only affects availability, not gear rating at chargen).
As to using a commlink and a deck there is some sense to that, having a firewall that doesn't need to be swapped or use a deck slot to protect wireless gear. This way the character has a rating 6 firewall up all the time protecting augmentations and gear. Also as mentioned she can also slave her team's gear through the commlink without sacrificing deck slots (the current deck she has only has 2 programme slots plus 2 if running a VM [I really miss 3e's resources allowance sometimes]).
For a starting character a Sleaze + Logic of 20 is not easy to attain. Violet has a maximum sleaze rating of 7 (5 on the deck +1 using the Sneak Programme and +1 for the Overclocker quality) including her Logic of 9 (amped up on Psyche with the Narco Genemod) yield a 16. Yes she can get higher with Smoke & Mirrors but that is another programme slot (she currently has 6: 3 on the DatajackPlus and 2 on the deck and one fixed on a programme carrier). She has 9 Noise reduction (3 antennae, Deck rating [2], Datajack Plus 3 [2], and Vectored Signal Filter [2])
-
Sleaze 4 Erika, Smoke and Mirrors of 5, program carrier with Virtual machine running Stealth and Signal Scrub. 10 Sleaze. 6 Logic, 2 levels Cerebral Booster, Narco and Psyche. 20.
Also to consider, Data Anomaly can add another 2. Overclocker is another +1. Could theoretically mod the deck for another +1 Sleaze. 24 Dice. Just sayin. Totally doable. Mostly because Smoke and Mirrors is silly.
Gets easier with a Datajack plus as you don't need the program carrier and could stick a Vectored Signal Filter or something else on the deck.
If +5 Sleaze isn't worth a Program slot I don't know what is.
-
A problem with 20 (or 24) dice pools is you're starting an arms race with the Gamemaster, and the loser is the rest of the party. Or ghost forbid, another hacker in the party who's gotta deal with those same hosts that challenge with your 20 (or 24) dice pool decker.
Honestly, 12 dice is normally enough to overpower NPCs. 16 or more is just pointlessly showing off.
-
The Devs started the Arms race with the stupid dice pools they gave hosts. Rating 8 Host has 19 Dice in it's best stat.
Yes a Rating 8 Host is supposed to be rare and tough, but you need to succeed at 3 or 4 opposed rolls in a row.
"I only fail when it's really hard" isn't exactly what most PCs are looking for.
-
It's a fair point that hackers do tend to need bigger dice pools because of the need to succeed on more tests than the gunbunnies need to succeed on to win a combat.
Still, whether you can't be seen with 16 dice or you can't be seen with 20 dice or you can't be seen with 24 dice, the Host goes on alert at GM's whim/discretion anyway. It only takes one hit on an unopposed (i.e. your dice pool is irrelevant) perception test to know there's a silent running icon in the host. BAM that's potentially all it takes for a GM to say the whole damn facility goes on red alert, if he's got a mind to.
Edit: I kinda like running NOT silent when I'm hacking a host anyway. You can't get in if you don't have a mark, so as far as the Patrol IC is concerned you're legit. But again, until such time the GM decides "no, the host goes on alert now" so fundamentally it's no different than running silent. Only you don't suffer the -2 dice penalty :D
-
Sleaze 4 Erika, Smoke and Mirrors of 5, program carrier with Virtual machine running Stealth and Signal Scrub. 10 Sleaze. 6 Logic, 2 levels Cerebral Booster, Narco and Psyche. 20.
Also to consider, Data Anomaly can add another 2. Overclocker is another +1. Could theoretically mod the deck for another +1 Sleaze. 24 Dice. Just sayin. Totally doable. Mostly because Smoke and Mirrors is silly.
Gets easier with a Datajack plus as you don't need the program carrier and could stick a Vectored Signal Filter or something else on the deck.
If +5 Sleaze isn't worth a Program slot I don't know what is.
...Vilolet's deck was already modded to include a programme carrier and Vectored Signal Filter the latter which improves noise cancellation by +2 as the CZ also has an ambient rating 2 noise factor. One can only add a second module slot to a deck. Data Anomaly has one small drawback in that sprites can spot you as if you were not running silently at all. Wonderful if it was a fault sprite.
-
It's a fair point that hackers do tend to need bigger dice pools because of the need to succeed on more tests than the gunbunnies need to succeed on to win a combat.
Still, whether you can't be seen with 16 dice or you can't be seen with 20 dice or you can't be seen with 24 dice, the Host goes on alert at GM's whim/discretion anyway. It only takes one hit on an unopposed (i.e. your dice pool is irrelevant) perception test to know there's a silent running icon in the host. BAM that's potentially all it takes for a GM to say the whole damn facility goes on red alert, if he's got a mind to.
Edit: I kinda like running NOT silent when I'm hacking a host anyway. You can't get in if you don't have a mark, so as far as the Patrol IC is concerned you're legit. But again, until such time the GM decides "no, the host goes on alert now" so fundamentally it's no different than running silent. Only you don't suffer the -2 dice penalty :D
Ditto, but that all depends on the Host. Most Missions seem to have ghost towns for Hosts so hackers stick out.
And a Hacker should be in and out of a Host pretty quick. In, find the thing, hack the thing, leave. If your plan involves hacking several things in a moderate to high rating host, you need a new plan. Even a Rating 5 host is tossing 12ish dice and will potentially run your Overwatch score up fast.
If the GM decides the Spider or IC does the "Check for Silently Running Icons" every few Seconds... yeah, the Host is going on Alert. Absolutely nothing a PC can do about it, which is why GMs shouldn't do that and should be using the Data Trail chart on p. 86 to search specifically for the Hacker with an opposed Matrix Perception roll. And also because the "Check the area for Silently Running Icons" is a hot mess of a rule and should be ignored, and the standard Matrix Perception Action should be used in all cases.
-
...generally deckers I've seen in my years of missions play don't go directly up against a host (unless it is pretty weak), but instead look for that "back door" through a slaved device to sidestep the firewall and host rating, as yes, one needs to perform multiple tests usually to do what he or she does in the system. Tests and matrix actions are also linked to skills other than hacking (like Computer and Electronic Warfare) and are capped by deck attributes (Limit) so one isn't going to necessarily be using his or her highest pool to perform the task or have use of all hits rolled unless pre-edging. Therefore all the more important to find that back door as a decent rating host can have a higher limit as well as dice pool than the decker.
Instead of Data Anomaly I would think Ninja Vanish would be a more helpful quality as should things get too hot to handle, you are out.
-
There is no "Back Door" for Edit file. It's all Host baby. Control Device, Direct access is certainly an option. Usually Direct Access is the best way to get into a host, and open Elevators or unlock doors. But for Files, big dice pools is it.
-
...aiding the team is what I am referring to. As long as there isn't a data steal or insertion as a requirement of the mission, no need to deal directly with the host.
One can also gain access through terminals as well (seen it done on several occasions), which does bypass the firewall.