[Aimborla]

Hoi chummers, fist time posting here, I go by Aimborla here in the matrix but you can call me Aim for short.

I used to GM a 4E game a while back, and I just picked up the 5E book and I'm hacking my way through it. I'm now trying to make a character that I've had in my head for a while. I'd figure it out eventually, but I thought I'd get some more brains on the job.

I want to make a stealthy assassiny rigger who runs a lot of micro, & mini drones for recon, and then snipes her target. The idea is she has tiny eyes, and ears, and sensors everywhere. She uses her drones to set her up for the perfect shot, rather than for combat. She might use them to deliver some poison, or to lure people out of position, or if she has to get in there to get her hands dirty, she uses them to cover all her angles with as many sensors as possible so she isn't caught off guard. With a group she could get into the thick of things and be good in a shootout while keeping track of their flanks, and making sure they aren't caught off guard. Or, or, or...well...the possibilities are endless.

She has a strong insect queen theme, and the most important part, her name is Hive Mind.

What do you guys think? Is the split between a rigger and being stealthy, and good in a fight spreading myself too thin? How would you recommend building this? I'm thinking money will, have to be fairly high on the priorities, but I'm not sure how high. Skills will also probably be up there too. Cyberware?

Any thoughts are welcome.

[JoeNapalm]

As is the way of things, I think you can be good at two things...as long as you accept that you'll never be the best at two things.

That's always the trade off.


-Jn-

[fseperent]

Try this for an example:
Unnamed Hero
METATYPE: HUMAN
B 2, A 6, R 5, S 2, W 2, L 3, I 4, C 4, ESS 6, EDG 7
Condition Monitor (P/S): 9 / 9
Armor: 9
Limits: Physical 4, Mental 4, Social 6
Physical Initiative: 9+1D6
Active Skills: Armorer (Firearms +2) 5, Computer 1, Con 6, Etiquette 6, Firearms Group 5, Locksmith (Maglock +2) 5, Negotiation (Bargaining +2) 5, Perception (Visual +2) 5, Pilot Aircraft 1, Pilot Ground Craft 1, Pilot Walker 1, Stealth Group 5, Tracking (Urban +2) 5
Knowledge Skills: Seattle 4, Security Tactics (VIP +2) 4, Syndicates (Personalities +2) 4
Languages: English N
Qualities: Addiction (Mild): Alcohol, Allergy, Common (Mild): Seafood, Blandness, Catlike, Home Ground (On the Lam): Seattle
Vehicles:
   Chrysler-Nissan Jackrabbit [Handling 4/3, Speed 3, Accel 2, Body 8, Armor 4, Pilot 1, Sensor 2, Seats 2]
      Gear:
         Linguistics: English (local language)
         Linguistics: Japanese (Manufacturer's Language)
   MCT Fly-Spy [Handling 4, Speed 3, Accel 2, Body 1, Armor 0, Pilot 3, Sensor 3]
      Gear:
         Linguistics: English (local language)
         Linguistics: Japanese (Manufacturer's Language)
         Realistic Features
         Rigger Interface
   MCT Fly-Spy [Handling 4, Speed 3, Accel 2, Body 1, Armor 0, Pilot 3, Sensor 3]
      Gear:
         Linguistics: English (local language)
         Linguistics: Japanese (Manufacturer's Language)
         Realistic Features
         Rigger Interface
   MCT Fly-Spy [Handling 4, Speed 3, Accel 2, Body 1, Armor 0, Pilot 3, Sensor 3]
      Gear:
         Linguistics: English (local language)
         Linguistics: Japanese (Manufacturer's Language)
         Realistic Features
         Rigger Interface
   Shiawase Kanmushi [Handling 4, Speed 2, Accel 1, Body 0, Armor 0, Pilot 3, Sensor 3]
      Gear:
         Gecko Grips
         Linguistics: English (local language)
         Linguistics: Japanese (Manufacturer's Language)
         Rigger Interface
   Shiawase Kanmushi [Handling 4, Speed 2, Accel 1, Body 0, Armor 0, Pilot 3, Sensor 3]
      Gear:
         Gecko Grips
         Linguistics: English (local language)
         Linguistics: Japanese (Manufacturer's Language)
         Rigger Interface
Gear:
   Actioneer Business Clothes
   AR Gloves
   Armor Vest
   Backpack
   Bug Scanner (6)
   Camera (1) w/ Vision Magnification, Electronic
   Certified Credstick, Gold
   Climbing Gear
   Concealable Holster
   Contacts (3) w/ Image Link, Smartlink
   Data Tap x5
   Diving Gear
   Ear buds (3) w/ Select Sound Filter (2)
   Flashlight
   Gas Mask
   Identity: Specify Name w/ Fake License: Bounty Hunter (4), Fake License: Driving (4), Fake License: Pistols (4), Fake License: Shotguns (4), Fake License: Sniper Rifles (4), Fake SIN (4), (1 month) Low Lifestyle
   Medkit (3)
   Metal Restraints
   Micro-camera x5
   Micro-Tranceiver
   Respirator (4)
   Standard Rope (m) x50
   Subvocal Microphone
   Survival Kit
   Tag Eraser
   Transys Avalon
   Trodes
Weapons:
   Colt America L36 [Light Pistol, Acc 7, DV 7P, AP -4, SA, 11 (c)] w/ (33x) APDS, (2x) Spare Clips
   Defiance T-250 (short-barrel version) [Shotgun, Acc 6, DV 9P, AP -1, SS/SA, 5 (m)] w/ Guncam, (30x) Regular Ammo, Smartgun System, Internal
   Remington 950 [Sniper Rifle, Acc 9, DV 12P, AP -8, SS, RC (1), 5 (m)] w/ (50x) APDS, Foregrip, Guncam, Imaging Scope, Improved Range Finder, Smartgun System, Internal
   Knife [Blade, Acc 5, DV 3P, AP -1]
Contacts:
Arms Dealer (Connection 4, Loyalty 2)
Fixer (Connection 2, Loyalty 2)
Mafia Consigliere (Connection 3, Loyalty 2)
Starting ¥: 1,769 + (3D6 × 60)¥

Hero Lab and the Hero Lab logo are Registered Trademarks of LWD Technology, Inc. Free download at http://www.wolflair.com
Shadowrun © 2005-2016 The Topps Company, Inc. All rights reserved. Shadowrun is a registered trademark of The Topps Company, Inc.

Tried to keep it as close to core book only as I could.

[Kuirem]

Big Warning : Going for an insect theme is a bad idea. Insect Spirits are the "big bad chaotic evil" of Shadowrun, everyone hate them and Insect Shaman are hunted down by everyone : Corps, Shadowrunner, Mafia... So thematically going around with an alias like Hive Mind won't do good for your survival.

For your character if you don't plan to use Drones for fighting you don't really need to be a rigger. Some Spy Drones slaved to a good Commlink with a high Autosoft software will do the trick. It's just that you will have to rely entirely on their dog brains and Control Device action. Such a character will probably just need high AGI to sneak and high INT to spot things. For main skills Piloting isn't even necessary so Sniper, Sneak, Perception, Electronic Warfare (to use Sensors installed on your drones). MCT Fly-Spy are only 2k nuyen so you don't need that much money. Any combination of A B C for Attributes/Skills/Nuyen should do the trick, you might even be able to get away with D Resources to get some Magic/Techno or Metatype.

Now if you really want to go Rigger that's an other matter. First you need a Control Rig in your brain. This will allow you to jump in your drones to throw much bigger roll. You will also be a beast at driving. See with your GM if he use REA or INT to pilot while jumped, RAW seems to say REA but since you are not in your meat it would be more logical to use INT. Now that's a trickier build, you will need high REA (or if your GM is kind high INT), high AGI and decent INT. You will also need a lot of skills, Pilot Groundcraft and Aircraft, Sniper, Sneaking, Electronic Warfare and Mechanic. I would go for a A - Nuyen, B - Skills, C - Attributes, D - Meta, E - Magic. Pick a Rating 2 Control Rig, or used Rating 3 if you don't mind the essence loss. A good car/truck (depending on the size of your team), a good RCC and some drones. I would also consider picking Muscle Toner to get some extra AGI to shoot better and Reaction Enhancers are a must if you are using Reaction to pilot.

[JoeNapalm]

Now if you really want to go Rigger that's an other matter. First you need a Control Rig in your brain. This will allow you to jump in your drones to throw much bigger roll. You will also be a beast at driving. See with your GM if he use REA or INT to pilot while jumped, RAW seems to say REA but since you are not in your meat it would be more logical to use INT.

Core 51:

REACTION (REA) - Reaction is about reflexes, awareness, and your character's ability to respond to the events around them. Reaction plays an important role in deciding how soon characters act in combat and how skilled they are in avoiding attacks from others. It also helps you make that quick turn down a narrow alley on your cycle to avoid the howling gangers on your tail.

INTUITION (INT) - Intuition is the voice of your gut, the instint that tells you things before your logical brain can figure them out. Intuition helps you anticipate ambushes, notice that something is amiss or out of place, and stay on the trail of someone you're pursuing.

Seems pretty solid that REA should be for driving, wired or otherwise. You're still using your own brain, you're just using the vehicle as your body. Doesn't matter how fast the vehicle responds if you're still trying to figure out what's happening when you should already be hitting the brakes.

INT is that little voice that tells you something bad is about to happen, the hairs on the back of your neck, etc. It's got drek all to do with piloting a vehicle the wrong way down a one-way street.


-Jn-

[Kuirem]

REA is a physical attribute so it is linked to your body. Just look at how initiative is handled in VR, all INT because there is no more REA to use and jumping is going VR. Honestly I wouldn't mind that much using REA if at least initiative was using it as well for Rigger because as it is your REA is really just there to give you more dice in piloting.

[Aimborla]

Thanks for all the ideas guys, lots of stuff to think on!

Big Warning : Going for an insect theme is a bad idea. Insect Spirits are the "big bad chaotic evil" of Shadowrun, everyone hate them and Insect Shaman are hunted down by everyone : Corps, Shadowrunner, Mafia... So thematically going around with an alias like Hive Mind won't do good for your survival.

Yeah, I know about the whole insect spirit theme stuff, but I just think the insect theme is kinda cool for this character. 

[Kuirem]

What about a Spider? Spiders eat insects!

[JoeNapalm]

REA is a physical attribute so it is linked to your body. Just look at how initiative is handled in VR, all INT because there is no more REA to use and jumping is going VR. Honestly I wouldn't mind that much using REA if at least initiative was using it as well for Rigger because as it is your REA is really just there to give you more dice in piloting.

Matrix combat is different that a physical vehicle or drone being rigged. Matrix combat has nothing to do with physical anything. You're running software, not emulating physical movement in virtual space. Meat combat skills aren't required for VR combat.

Riggers are using VR to manipulate physical objects in meat space, interfacing their brain into the machine to make the machine their body. The same parts of their brain that are used to move their body are used to move the machine. The same skills are used if they're jumped in or if they're using manual controls.

-Jn-

[Kuirem]

The same parts of their brain that are used to move their body are used to move the machine.

You say brain but as I said Reaction is a physical attribute not a mental one. It's probably more something about accustoming your body to react faster than the brain but it doesn't matter, point is physical is only usable when you are in your body.

By the way you say that "The same skills are used if they're jumped in or if they're using manual controls." but this is wrong, look at how gunnery work page 183 :

Vehicle-mounted weapons are fired using Gunnery + Agility [Accuracy] for manual operation, like door guns on mounts, or Gunnery + Logic [Accuracy] for remote operated systems.

[Coyote]

However, in that case, Gunnery is specifically called out as using a different attribute. I'm not aware of the Pilot skills being called out as using Intuition if running a vehicle through a Matrix connection, and Reaction if running a vehicle physically. So, without a rule saying to use an attribute other than the default attribute, I don't see why it would be anything other than Reaction. Just because Reaction is replaced by Intuition for SOME checks when in VR, does not mean that it is replaced by Intuition for ALL checks when in VR. Unless, of course, you are house ruling it. Which is not unreasonable, but it's still a house rule.

[Kuirem]

Yes that's a houserule. The thing is that there is NO physical stats in VR because you don't have your body. The only 'exception' is Rigger. But it's not so much an exception than an omission, even in Rigger 5.0 they completely forgot to clarify what skill you are supposed to use to pilot in VR. There was even a confusion with Gunnery where it said in the core that it uses AGI while jumped and at an other page it used LOG but this one was clarified, Piloting? Still not.

As long as there is no errata about that it will all be up to the GM anyway. Having to raise REA when you play Decker is a pain though because it will only ever be used for Piloting which is why I think the houserule is much better.

[Whiskeyjack]

Having to raise REA when you play Decker is a pain though because it will only ever be used for Piloting which is why I think the houserule is much better.

Yes, how terrible for every decker who might need to be in meat combat and want to go quicker, or who needs dodge a bullet. 

This is exactly the reason why 5e goes out of its way to try and make deckers be on-site and not sitting in an apartment a mile away, as they did in past editions (generally) just fine. Your build requires you to make choices in allocating attributes and not everything gets filtered under the things you obviously want for a particular character? Welcome to gaming.

[Hobbes]

For your character if you don't plan to use Drones for fighting you don't really need to be a rigger. Some Spy Drones slaved to a good Commlink with a high Autosoft software will do the trick.

That really can't be stated enough.  If you're not going to use a drone to shoot a gun, get a couple Fly Spys and Kanmushis with Realistic Features 4, and whatever armor they can hold, maybe upgrade the sensors and add a Drone rack on your Harley if you're feeling frisky.  Grab a Transys Avalon, with a rank 1 sleaze dongle, some noise reduction and run Smoke and Mirrors full blast on a program carrier.  Add a Nixdorf with an Agent for good measure, call it a day.  Build yourself a fairly normal Street Samurai otherwise. 

As a bonus your Sami can run wireless gear fairly confidently without being babysat by the team hacker.  12ish dice to resist Matrix Perception and an Agent to monitor your Pan.  Add Data Anomaly for Lulz. 

In any case for a character named Hive Mind, the Fly Spys and Kanmushis with Realistic Features is just good clean fun.  Swarm 'o' Bugs incoming! 

[Danny Montanny]

That really can't be stated enough.  If you're not going to use a drone to shoot a gun, get a couple Fly Spys and Kanmushis with Realistic Features 4, and whatever armor they can hold, maybe upgrade the sensors and add a Drone rack on your Harley if you're feeling frisky.  Grab a Transys Avalon, with a rank 1 sleaze dongle, some noise reduction and run Smoke and Mirrors full blast on a program carrier.  Add a Nixdorf with an Agent for good measure, call it a day.  Build yourself a fairly normal Street Samurai otherwise. 

Wouldn't it be better to run them off of a RCC? Can you put a dongle on one?

I was thinking if this character had exploding drones like Firefly from the 2nd GI Joe movie, that'd be rad. I looked into it though and it seems that plastic explosives are pretty worthless when they're that small. 50 grams of plastic explosives will be about 1.75 cubic inches, but even at Rating 25 it will only be DV 5 when its that small. Am I missing something in this that would make it work?