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SR 6 info

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kyoto kid

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« Reply #255 on: <05-23-19/0321:56> »
Now again I felt SR5 was too deadly.They have stated as part of the advertising SR6 is more deadly. The deadlier the game gets for the players the more they generally will move away from Pink Mohawk. I hope it is not more deadly, and that is just marketing. There are a lot of things I think will improve it from SR5, but there are a lot of things that have me worried.
...+1. 

Also the deadlier the game the less some may want to even bother playing at all.

The combination of "easier to take damage" and "we're giving you 1 major + any amount of minor actions depending on init dice and other bonuses (...instead of SR5's 1 complex OR 2 simple actions)"  says to me that they are making the game more tactical. 

Soooo...this is nothing but my guess, but for what it's worth, I'd guess that choices like "I stand there in the open trading blows with the bad guy" or "I stand there and hose down the area with gunfire," are much more likely to get you killed, because integrating the use of those minors into your combat plan ("I fire and move to cover") is the substitute for big armor. Again, nothing but my guess.
...and unless you are an amped up combat monster tank, you'll be spending most if not all of your actions doing the "duck and cover" to avoid being geeked particularly against grouped oppos. 

I think about several of the Chicago Missions I've been on where the team took hits but were able to tough it out and survive which with the new system would become multiple PC kills (the Tennessee scenario comes to mind for a couple).
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Shinobi Killfist

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« Reply #256 on: <05-23-19/1041:33> »
So I may be reading to much into this, but it seem the major argument here is.
I can stand in the middle of an empty hall way with a machine-gun and unload on 6+ guards while they can kill me anymore.
That don't seem like shadowrun to me but each to their own.

Other than tank builds I never noticed anyone doing that in previous editions. I guess melee characters to some degree as well. They might be able to take on 6 security guards but yeah wired reflexes have always been about moving so fast you were effectively multiple people. But stand in the middle of a hallway, I didn’t see it.

This was not directed at any single event.
It was more of a comment on most of the complaints I have read about the new armor and soak rules.
And how it seems that some people are surprised that bullets hurt.  ;)
Me, I guess my players and I are more of a BT group, because they instinctively run for cover in doorways and behind deck/tables etc.
Even my brother the Troll, will hide behind a doorway and take shots from there.
The idea of not being tactical in an RPG would never occur to them.
So to make I long story short I see no problems with the new armor and soak rules and feel they will add more flavor and logic to the combat round.
That is until someone find and post how to brake them.  ::)

I think there is a difference between thinking a armor coat should stop bullets cold and thinking it should be at least slightly effective. So far given how quick fights traditionally are and what I’ve seen of edge running naked into a fight is pretty damn close to wearing a full suit of armor.

Edit to add. And this is coming from someone who thought the 4/5e armor system sucked due to ridiculous soak pools of like 40dice for tank builds. Making them tougher than a literal tank. Something like armor is rated 1-3 for clothes each point gives 1 auto hit on your soak. Apds ammo is ap1 guns don’t have ap built in. Maybe bump listed damages we have heard so far by 1 to 2. Armor does something but nothing like a literal tank.


Catalyst over corrects far too often. This, strength going from full strength being your dv to it not effecting it. The last one is hilarious to me since they increased it in 5e as it was perceived as not effective enough on 4e. So they over corrected to the point it’s weaker by far than 4e.
« Last Edit: <05-23-19/1058:35> by Shinobi Killfist »

Shinobi Killfist

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« Reply #257 on: <05-23-19/1105:18> »
Now again I felt SR5 was too deadly.They have stated as part of the advertising SR6 is more deadly. The deadlier the game gets for the players the more they generally will move away from Pink Mohawk. I hope it is not more deadly, and that is just marketing. There are a lot of things I think will improve it from SR5, but there are a lot of things that have me worried.
...+1. 

Also the deadlier the game the less some may want to even bother playing at all.

The combination of "easier to take damage" and "we're giving you 1 major + any amount of minor actions depending on init dice and other bonuses (...instead of SR5's 1 complex OR 2 simple actions)"  says to me that they are making the game more tactical. 

Soooo...this is nothing but my guess, but for what it's worth, I'd guess that choices like "I stand there in the open trading blows with the bad guy" or "I stand there and hose down the area with gunfire," are much more likely to get you killed, because integrating the use of those minors into your combat plan ("I fire and move to cover") is the substitute for big armor. Again, nothing but my guess.
...and unless you are an amped up combat monster tank, you'll be spending most if not all of your actions doing the "duck and cover" to avoid being geeked particularly against grouped oppos. 

I think about several of the Chicago Missions I've been on where the team took hits but were able to tough it out and survive which with the new system would become multiple PC kills (the Tennessee scenario comes to mind for a couple).

Funnily enough the only people Id feel particularly motivated to put armor on is the high body trolls types. I’m not worried about giving the gm a edge or two across the fight. But if I can regenerate edge I over used it’s not bad. But my 4 body elf probably never will be 4 higher than the attack value no matter what armor I wear. So why bother.

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« Reply #258 on: <05-23-19/1522:44> »

Funnily enough the only people Id feel particularly motivated to put armor on is the high body trolls types. I’m not worried about giving the gm a edge or two across the fight. But if I can regenerate edge I over used it’s not bad. But my 4 body elf probably never will be 4 higher than the attack value no matter what armor I wear. So why bother.

Which funnily enough would finally match actual characters to the art style of 1st edition!

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #259 on: <05-23-19/1532:32> »
I don't care much about being 4 higher than the AR, but being at most 3 lower sounds rather valuable.

I so hope MilSpec will have some autohits... Which reminds me, I should make an SR6 version of the Juggernaut, with a decent bit of magic resistance as well to really make it dangerous. Even with the buffs I gave it in SR5, the players still only took 1 pass to stack up the Illusion and injury penalties so high that they managed to control its thoughts without it being able to shake that off.

(Of course it still was an AWESOME 'oh drek' moment before that happened, the moment when they finally managed to return the escaped paracritters from 1 massive transport truck, and suddenly the other truck just starts shaking as something biiiiig was trying to break out...)
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Shinobi Killfist

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« Reply #260 on: <05-23-19/1556:25> »

Funnily enough the only people Id feel particularly motivated to put armor on is the high body trolls types. I’m not worried about giving the gm a edge or two across the fight. But if I can regenerate edge I over used it’s not bad. But my 4 body elf probably never will be 4 higher than the attack value no matter what armor I wear. So why bother.

Which funnily enough would finally match actual characters to the art style of 1st edition!

The cover technically just ghost who walks inside and inside maybe a few picks of gangers and the tribesmen oh and the rocker. And even then it might be a picture of when they aren’t on a run. I’d have to check the gear, I’m pretty sure the hanger just had biking leathers. Sally had a long coat on and decker a armored jacket. Sally stupidly wore it open but she had it on.  But most art people wore armored clothing of some kind; jackets, a vest, the long coat was big. 

So, no it wouldn’t match the art. Pretty much all the clothing was armored. And that’s what people are talking about. I don’t think anyone was talking about security or military armors. Outside a hope those might actually do something.

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #261 on: <05-23-19/1558:52> »
Well whatever the faults are in 6e's armor system... at least it won't have 5e's flaw where you've got multiple books' worth of options but the only clothes virtually every character wears is Sleeping Tiger.
« Last Edit: <05-23-19/1600:51> by Stainless Steel Devil Rat »
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Shinobi Killfist

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« Reply #262 on: <05-23-19/1601:07> »
I don't care much about being 4 higher than the AR, but being at most 3 lower sounds rather valuable.

I so hope MilSpec will have some autohits... Which reminds me, I should make an SR6 version of the Juggernaut, with a decent bit of magic resistance as well to really make it dangerous. Even with the buffs I gave it in SR5, the players still only took 1 pass to stack up the Illusion and injury penalties so high that they managed to control its thoughts without it being able to shake that off.

(Of course it still was an AWESOME 'oh drek' moment before that happened, the moment when they finally managed to return the escaped paracritters from 1 massive transport truck, and suddenly the other truck just starts shaking as something biiiiig was trying to break out...)

I doubt I’ll care if I am 4 or more less. I don’t think it will have much of a mechanical disadvantage. I mean sure armor is cheap so you minds as well wear it I guess.

And yes, it’s been far too many editions since the juggernaut felt like it’s description and shadowtalk. 1e i think it auto staged deadly damage down to nothing. And had a beefy body to soak any overflow. And was close to immune to magic.

Shinobi Killfist

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« Reply #263 on: <05-23-19/1604:44> »
Well whatever the faults are in 6e's armor system... at least it won't have 5e's flaw where you've got multiple books' worth of options but the only clothes virtually every character wears is Sleeping Tiger.

Yeah that was lame. Though honestly this sounds worse to me. I’d rather have a universal best armor that people can min max gravitate too than have a pointless armor system. I didn’t think they could do worse than 5es armor system. But, this sounds worse to me.

Hobbes

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« Reply #264 on: <05-23-19/1632:37> »
Well whatever the faults are in 6e's armor system... at least it won't have 5e's flaw where you've got multiple books' worth of options but the only clothes virtually every character wears is Sleeping Tiger.


Mortimer's for the Wireless bonus to all Social skills was about the only other one worth taking.  Although I did have one character grab the Ares Big Game Hunter with Gel Packs for the "No, seriously, we're here to kill everyone" look.


Ghost Rigger

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« Reply #265 on: <05-23-19/1741:02> »
And let us not forget that personal armor is not at the top of everyone's shopping list. When daddy needs a new Steel Lynx, it turns out that an Executive Suite is enough armor for a high fashion outfit.
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Marcus

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« Reply #266 on: <05-24-19/1020:32> »
Greatly reducing armors effectiveness will have its own set of consequences, and it is very likely over the course of an edition  we will see the 6e equivalent of Sleeping Tiger. I mean it may turn out that tables are tpk after tpk, and they roll back this rules in a hurry. Until we see the CRB and the average player starts making characters the argument is fairly meaningless.
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Hobbes

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« Reply #267 on: <05-24-19/1237:51> »
Greatly reducing armors effectiveness will have its own set of consequences, and it is very likely over the course of an edition  we will see the 6e equivalent of Sleeping Tiger. I mean it may turn out that tables are tpk after tpk, and they roll back this rules in a hurry. Until we see the CRB and the average player starts making characters the argument is fairly meaningless.

Based on what we know, whatever Armor is value 3 or higher that has the "Best" other bonuses compared to the cost.  Hopefully there are enough good options that "Best" becomes subjective and arguable. 

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #268 on: <05-24-19/1243:29> »
Capacity, specific bonuses, social situations, hopefully there will be plenty of differences.
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Hobbes

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« Reply #269 on: <05-24-19/1310:55> »
I'm hoping Armor Concealability comes back.  Or something like it.