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[5e OOC] Sunt Venatores Venationem

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rednblack

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« Reply #675 on: <05-26-15/1427:58> »
I'm thinking that while a Spirit is using Engulf, it should have a penalty to Defense Tests, probably -2, though I could see -4 argued for, or even no Defense possible, as the spirit can't really move.  Considering the rules would cut both ways, I'm hesitant to make the penalty too extreme, as I don't want to nerf PC's use of spirits.  Thoughts? 

I will allow Called Shot: Shins, should Achak -- or anyone choose to use that in the future.

A little unsure how to handle whether or not Tiny gets a Defense Test.  On the one hand, he's actively engaged in a shootout and knows about where Achak is.  On the other hand, he has no LoS on Achak, which seems to trump everything else RAW-wise, so that's the call.  Oooh, that certainly gives me ideas for the Invisible Man.

Ok, so after soak Tiny reduces the burst down to 2S.  Due to the DV Limit on the Called Shot, that means Tiny takes 1S, but is my understanding of Winded correct in that he cannot take Complex Actions for 2 Combat Turns?  Wow, that may be a game changer.  Tiny is still allowed 2 Simple Actions per phase, though, correct?

Also, if you can believe it, Tiny failed his test against Stunned, so he loses 5 to his initiative.  For future reference, is a test like that similar to a Soak test, in that it does not suffer from Wound Penalties?  I did dock Tiny 2 dice in this instance.  If so, it could be fun to roll those 2 dice.  He'd need both to come up hits in order to meet the threshold, but would need only 1 1 in order to glitch. 

Corrected Initiative.

CT 2 AP 1
Achak 27
S 21
R 21
D 19

Mercer 17
T 15
ETC 13
A 12
Sister Rebecca 9

@Mal, I need a roll to resist Matrix Damage to Mercer's cyber eyes.  He's got 7 boxes of Matrix Damage coming his way.

After that, Mercer is up.

 
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Tecumseh

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« Reply #676 on: <05-26-15/1458:26> »
For Engulf, I would probably base the dodge penalty off the spirit's strength, or the difference between the spirit's Strength versus the target's Body+Strength. Spirits of Earth, for example, are so strong that Engulfing someone small would be a non-issue, but might still have some trouble digesting a troll.

Making up something on the fly, I'd probably subtract Sister Rebecca's Body (4) and Strength (4) from the spirit's Strength (4) and come to a negative modifier of -4 to dodge. That still gives it 11 dice (15-4), because fire spirits are dodgy bastards, but makes it more reasonable under the circumstances.

Whether a target is Aware or Unaware is a tough part of being GM since it has such a huge impact on how the combat plays out. I go through the same progression that rednblack just outlined almost every single combat sequence. The character is actively involved in the fight, sure, but can they really be aware of every possible attack? No, not really, unless they have Combat Sense or Danger Sense or some other sixth sense. My general solution is to give the defender dice for cover and movement and other modifiers (but not REA+INT) and see if that's a fair middle ground.

(This is what I would have done for the third bandersnatch in Tabula Rasa - which Ace shot in the back while it was running, an attack it clearly would not have expected under normal circumstances - except that it had gone on Full Defense. I decided that Full Defense implied enough situational awareness to justify giving it the REA+INT dice. But Ace shot it out of the tree anyway.)

As for Winded, I am reading it the same way: that Tiny cannot use Complex Actions for 2 combat turns. He can still use Simple and Free Actions.

And I cannot believe that Tiny failed his Stun test. How improbable, although I'm glad Poindexter and I aren't the only ones rolling snake eyes. As for whether wound penalties apply or not, that is an excellent question. It probably comes down to GM interpretation of whether this is a soak test (no penalties) or an attribute-only test like Composure (yes penalties). I'm inclined to lean toward the latter, since it seems to me that someone who's a bit beat up would be that much easier to stun/rattle, but I agree that it's a grey area.

Malevolence

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« Reply #677 on: <05-26-15/1610:43> »
I'm not quite sure how this works. The cyber eyes are slaved to my commlink which I know means that I can use its attributes for defense, giving my cyber eyes 14 defense dice, but for the soak roll, do I use the commlink's firewall or the cyber-eyes? I'm pretty sure I have to use the cyber eye's DR over the commlinks for the soak, but again, is that a 2 or a 4 - cyber tech is in general considered considered DR 2, but I have rating 4 cyber eyes. Is DR = Gear Rating, or are they two different stats?


Also, do you need me to make my defense roll as well as my soak roll or did you already account for that?


Let me know:
1. Do I roll 14 dice for defense
2. Do I roll 2 or 4 dice for DR for soak
3. Do I roll 2 or 7 dice for Firewall for soak
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Poindexter

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« Reply #678 on: <05-26-15/1647:08> »
ok, fixed my dmg track.

I'm now at 0 physical dmg, and 10 stun dmg (After the spirits next dmg roll), 2 boxes from unconscious.

And, just so it dun fall too far back, when the time comes, here's her escape roll.  Escape roll (Bod 4 + Str 4 - Wound 3): 5d6t5 4

Another AMAZINGLY unlikely roll that I doubt will matter.
« Last Edit: <05-26-15/1710:50> by Poindexter »
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rednblack

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« Reply #679 on: <05-26-15/1845:13> »
@Tec, I'm on phone so reply will be a little short, but thanks for the feedback. I like the idea of bonus dice but no REA+INT for Defense Tests. Everything else makes sense and confirms a lot of my understanding of how the mechanics work.

@Mal, I'm not terribly sure about this. If I try to reason through it I think you'd go with the eye's Device Rating (2) but the commlink's Firewall (7) as the damaging code would have to sift its way through the master Device.

I have already made the Defense Test.
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Malevolence

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« Reply #680 on: <05-26-15/2032:04> »
Resist Matrix Damage [DR 2 + FW 7]: 9d6t5 5


So 2 Matrix damage taken.
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rednblack

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« Reply #681 on: <05-26-15/2120:11> »
Apparently Data Trails is out. If anybody gets it let me know how it is.
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Tecumseh

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« Reply #682 on: <05-26-15/2127:05> »
Dang, you're on top of things. Just earlier today I was just asking Zweiblumen when it would be out. I'll let him know.

I'm torn, because I want to understand, but I just don't know where I'm going to find the time to read a sourcebook. Takes me forever to get through those things.

Malevolence

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« Reply #683 on: <05-27-15/1557:33> »
Oh. Mercer will spend a simple action to command one of the Fly-Spy drones to enter the church (maintaining stealth).


The next part becomes trickier as it gets into the guts of the Noise rules that are probably covered in more detail in Data Trails, which I don't yet have. I'd like to go to the back of the van and open the smuggling compartment (move and simple, I think), then activate my jammer (I left it wireless off like everything else on the compartment because I was too dumb to think I might need it. Also a simple action for the next pass). I still need wireless to see the sensor feeds from the drones, Roadmaster, and my Argentum coat and I still need wireless for smartlink (presumably both the cyber eyes and the sniper rifle). The jammer is rating 5, so a device must be DR5 (or is it DR6?) or higher in order to not be disabled by the jammer (minus 1 due to NR from my datajack). My commlink is DR7, so it's good, but the Rodamaster is DR3 and my weapons would be about the same (I think DR2). The drone is outside of the jammer's range, so that should be fine as well. I can exclude devices from the effect of the jammer, but does that also exclude them from the protection that the noise provides? Basically, I want to up the noise level for the Decker, but still be able to use my equipment (or at least the items mentioned).


Is what I want to do possible (increase noise for the decker, but still keep my gear mostly unaffected)? What effects am I looking at if I exclude a piece of gear (will it still benefit defensively from increased noise) or not (can it still function if it is slaved to my DR7 commlink)?


The answer to that question will decide what I want to do going forward. If I can't get jamming to work, I'll have to come up with a plan B. I have ideas, but need feedback on feasability:


1. Geek the decker. I "know" he's in the other van, so do I just take the -6 blind fire penalty trying to hit him? Do I have to guess which seat he is in?
2. Ram the other van. I'd most likely get out first and remote drive the van. It'd take about 4 CTs to get there, so this is not the best option. If I did decide to do this, what would the damage be for my car and what would the damage be for the occupants of the other car? Speed of 3 means a movement rate of 20/40. My attack pool would be 0 (Reaction 4 - Defaulting 1 - Running 3), so I'd have to slow down to 20 m/T before ramming. If he doesn't get a defense, then I have 50/50 odds of hitting. Yeah, not even going to pursue this line of thought any further.
3. Just ignore the decker and continue on.
4. Go wireless off and make it work without any local sensors or smartgun. Should still be able to use the drone sensors to give me eyes inside the church.


As an aside, the Decker is already facing -2 from the noise level of the Barrens and -2 from my gear being on the Public Matrix as well as -1 from the distance between the two vans. Upping his effective noise level to 10 vs. DR7 commlink on the defense should be rather sexy, but makes me wonder at the effectiveness of combat Deckers. He can counter some noise - depending on whether you are allowing the wireless bonus from datajacks to stack, it can be 3 or higher.
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rednblack

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« Reply #684 on: <05-27-15/1712:20> »
I'd love some feedback here, but the way that I read it is that the jammer would create Noise, interfering with the enemy decker, but that so long as the Jammer is Wireless On, that Noise will not interfere with your gear.  Clear?

I'm also of the opinion that booting a piece of gear automatically turns Wireless on unless and until you turn Wireless off.  Is that how others understand devices/gear/etc?

As for ramming the enemy van, I think that the crash rules from SR5 are completely broken, and one would be a lot safer in a Roadmaster or the kind of armored car that you're in than on a scooter, which is not supported by the rules.  I recently heard a houserule that I mostly like on the subject, but I'd have to revisit it, which I need to anyway, but the short answer is that at a low speed if the decker is in a seatbelt, he'll probably be just fine. 

Blindfire would be very tricky.  Mercer would need to pick a seat and then shoot using the -6 penalty.  He could likewise try to use his drone to scout out which seat the decker is in, and could then fire with the -6 penalty, but I'm thinking the van would have mirrored windows.  There is the chance that the gangers shooting at it shattered a window, though.  The drone would have to fly to the driver's side to find out.

I missed the -2 from public grid.  I will correct from here on out.

As your actions stand, that means Mercer will not be moving the vehicle on this pass, correct?
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Malevolence

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« Reply #685 on: <05-27-15/1834:06> »
Simple: Command Drone (enter church)
Move: To Smuggling compartment

Simple: Command Drone (check enemy Roadmaster)
Free: Cybereyes to wireless off


The drone entering the church will take the most direct route into the building. So it heads to the front door, but if it spots an open window or something while heading that way it'll enter through there. The other drone will look for broken windows or whatever to try to get eyes inside the van (though not necessarily entering it). Rough commands would be "Discreetly get me eyes on the fight in the church" and "Discretely find a view to the inside of that Roadmaster", though with DNI I imagine it doesn't necessarily map 1:1 to language.
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Tecumseh

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« Reply #686 on: <05-27-15/1950:59> »
I'd love some feedback here, but the way that I read it is that the jammer would create Noise, interfering with the enemy decker, but that so long as the Jammer is Wireless On, that Noise will not interfere with your gear.

I read this the same way.

I'm also of the opinion that booting a piece of gear automatically turns Wireless on unless and until you turn Wireless off.  Is that how others understand devices/gear/etc?

I think this is GM discretion. The rules don't say one way or another, unless it's mentioned in Data Trails. I personally allow it that devices may be rebooted in Wireless Off mode but I wouldn't expect that to be everyone's interpretation. It's the GM's world; we just play in it.

As for ramming the enemy van, I think that the crash rules from SR5 are completely broken, and one would be a lot safer in a Roadmaster or the kind of armored car that you're in than on a scooter, which is not supported by the rules.  I recently heard a houserule that I mostly like on the subject, but I'd have to revisit it, which I need to anyway, but the short answer is that at a low speed if the decker is in a seatbelt, he'll probably be just fine.

The crash rules are gibberish. I spent a long time trying to make up new ones when the RV crashed three months ago in Tabula Rasa. See below:

The crash rules in 5th Edition are largely nonsensical. Vehicle armor is never used to mitigate damage to vehicle occupants, by which logic it would be better to plow into a wall full-speed while on a Dodge Scoot instead of in a GMC Bulldog (since the DV of the crash is based on the vehicle's Body, and their Speed attributes are the same).

I spent about two hours trying to devise better rules, going back to 4th Edition, until I remembered that Ryo has a house rule for this exact situation.

When crashing, a vehicle is treated as if it rammed itself, resisting with Body+Armor as normal. Half of the unresisted damage is applied to the passengers of the vehicle, resisted with Body+Armor -6 AP. If a passenger is not properly secured (wearing a safety belt/harness), then they must resist the full initial damage of the crash instead, and may be hurled from the vehicle (gamemaster discretion). This may result in further damage from impact with the terrain or other vehicles.

Here's the full post if it's useful: http://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=18731.msg345124#msg345124

Malevolence

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« Reply #687 on: <05-27-15/2038:25> »
I'm also of the opinion that booting a piece of gear automatically turns Wireless on unless and until you turn Wireless off.  Is that how others understand devices/gear/etc?

I think this is GM discretion. The rules don't say one way or another, unless it's mentioned in Data Trails. I personally allow it that devices may be rebooted in Wireless Off mode but I wouldn't expect that to be everyone's interpretation. It's the GM's world; we just play in it.


I'm not sure how often this is an issue. Most items are always on (though wireless might be off) or are powered on outside of combat. Rebooting a device in combat could be ugly, but usually you reboot it to clear marks. If you wanted to clear the mark and keep it wireless off, just turn it wireless off - that mark is meaningless if it isn't connected to the Matrix. Just remember to reboot it before turning wireless back on - assuming the enemy decker is still alive/online so that the mark doesn't just clear itself. Basically, I'd just let the owner choose what state it boots in in the rare cases it does matter, but ultimately it doesn't seem critical to me unless I'm missing some scenario where it's important.
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Malevolence

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« Reply #688 on: <05-28-15/0115:26> »
Drone Initiative: 4d6+6 20
Minus 10 for entering the initiative late? Not sure since it is still the first pass and the drones have been present all along but not really involved. In either case, they would have Observed in detail during their first IP and continued in their "patrol", so they won't follow my commands until their next IP (at 10) anyway.


Back to my previous post, I see how this might be seen as an issue in the current situation, but I have assumed that I am not powering the Jammer on - just activating its function (to jam). This is more inefficient to action economy for me (compared to turning it on from powered off with wireless on being the default, if we assume that it immediately starts jamming once powered on) since I have to use a simple to activate wireless, then a free to turn on jamming (via DNI) as opposed to flipping the switch as a simple action and having it have everything on (jamming and wireless) without the need to spend a free action. I am treating it more like an amplifier where it can be powered on and not making "noise", then you simply turn the volume to eleven and it is both on and "on" (i.e. a "standby" mode). If you are seeing it as a more simple interface where if power is flowing it is jamming, then we can go with whatever you decide for the status of wireless on power on, though I think that this view would eliminate the ability to activate/deactivate it via DNI.


Looking to the Decker's most probable course of action, he will probably try to disable the jammer either with Data Spike or marking it and changing its mode (including forcing a reboot), either of which might cause me to initiate a reboot. This then runs into your question mark territory (does it come back up wireless on). Like Tec says, it's up to the GM. I see four options - Owner's choice, same as when powered off, wireless on, or wireless off. In all cases except the last one, it would come up wireless on in this situation. I think that a default of wireless off in a world in which everything is expected to be connected to the Matrix is the only one that doesn't make any sense, so the exact interpretation is unlikely to impact Mercer unless someone has a really strong preference towards Wireless off being the default (which I doubt).


Or have I utterly missed the context of the question? I'm fine with any interpretation you choose, though I fear I have spent way too many words on the subject despite my lack of concern. I am honestly not invested one way or the other so don't let my mental ramblings overly influence you.


Note to self, however, from now on the jammer lives on my person unless there is good reason for it not to (going through a checkpoint, etc). I was even expecting a Decker and utterly failed to include possibly my best defense in my load out.
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rednblack

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« Reply #689 on: <05-28-15/0805:25> »
I'm going to treat the initiative question as if the drones were holding their action on standby, which is basically what they were doing.  So, they'll begin acting on 17 this AP and continue flying at 10 of next AP.

The distance question is a tricky one. They're not particularly fast, and you said that you wanted them at a stealthy distance.  Up to now that hasn't been important, but I figured 100 meters out at least -- to wrack up Noise penalties if nothing else.  I also figure that they're probably moving at a good clip to keep good eyes on the area, so they should be able to hit their Running speed without any issues.  If what I'm saying makes sense, they'll be within 60 meters at the end of this CT.

As for rebooting devices, we'll just call that one player's choice on Wireless.

CT 2 AP 1
Achak 27
S 21
R 21
Drones 20
D 19
Mercer 17

T 15
ETC 13
A 12
Sister Rebecca 9

I'll figure out T, ETC, and A once Tecumseh and Mal post ICly.
« Last Edit: <05-28-15/1151:02> by rednblack »
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