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Sell me on skillwires

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martinchaen

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« Reply #30 on: <05-27-14/1407:27> »
I really dislike the fact that linguasofts suddenly became incredibly expensive. What used to be an inexpensive way to get access to multiple languages (a sort of babelfish, if you will), is suddenly out of reach of almost everyone in the SR universe.

firebug

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« Reply #31 on: <05-27-14/1433:43> »
Linguasofts only doubled in price from 4th edition.  It's a big jump, but I don't know if I'd say it went from "buy them by the bundle" to "nobody can afford one".
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SlowDeck

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« Reply #32 on: <05-27-14/1451:20> »
¥30,000 can buy 5 rating-6 linguasofts.

For the same price, I can buy a medium hardened milspec battle armor with helmet.

Something about that is not right.
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« Reply #33 on: <05-27-14/1457:55> »
¥30,000 can buy 5 rating-6 linguasofts.

For the same price, I can buy a medium hardened milspec battle armor with helmet.

Something about that is not right.

Yeah but that would make you fluent in 5 different languages, not counting your native tongue.  That's a huge advantage.  Personally, I think the problem is on the armor's side of that equation.
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martinchaen

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« Reply #34 on: <05-27-14/1459:16> »
Ah, but the cost of the software is not the expensive thing, firebug. Note the following differences, emphasis mine.

Quote from: SR4 p330
Linguasoft:
Linguasofts replicate language skills, allowing the user to speak a foreign language as fluently as her native language. Linguasofts may also be used as real-time translation programs. Linguasofts must be accessed with a direct neural link (either a sim module or datajack).

Quote from: SR5 p442
Linguasofts:
Linguasofts replicate language skills, allowing a user to speak a foreign language by automatically translating signals from the speech cortex, although chipped speech can be awkward and stilted—then again, so can anyone speaking a language that’s not their native tongue. Linguasofts must be accessed with a skilljack, which limits how many skillsofts you can use at a time.

In essence (hah!), the 100 and 1000 nuyen cost for a sim module and datajack, respectively, is negligible compared to that of a skilljack, which costs 20k per rating. The rating of the skilljack also limits the rating of the linguasoft, so at a minimum investment of 21k (and 0.1 Essence) you get one language at Rating 1. Running the skilljack wirelessly either allows you to run Rating * 3 number of programs, or Rating * 3 rating programs; this is a little ambiguous.

Even then, to run a Rating 5 linguasoft in SR5 is an absolute minimum investment of 45k (40k (and 0.2 Essence) for a Rating 2 Skilljack with wireless on, + 5k Rating 5 Linguasoft), while in SR4 (as the linguasofts were limited to Rating 5), the same setup cost 2600 (100 for sim module for any commlink you were very likely getting anyway + 2500 for the Rating 5 linguasoft, and no Essence loss). That's a difference of 1730%, a little more than double.

If taking into account that the wireless bonus might not extend to the rating of the programs it can run but instead the number of programs it can, the difference becomes even more excessive. A Rating 5 Skilljack is 100k (and 0.5 Essence), plus the 5k for the linguasoft itself; a stunning 4000% price increase.

And that's not even considering the fact that Social Adepts may not want to take skilljacks because of the Essence loss required by the skilljack; formerly, a simple sim module would do, but now invasive surgery is required.

Consider this line from SR4:
Quote from: SR4 p129
Globalization and the Matrix have also made the world a smaller place, so that borders no longer limit languages. Migrating communities have spread various cultures (both traditional and new) across the planet. The proliferation of linguasofts and translation programs makes it even easier to bridge the communication gap.

Yeah, that's what I have an issue with... :D
« Last Edit: <05-27-14/1506:13> by martinchaen »

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« Reply #35 on: <05-29-14/0112:00> »
Yeah, 4th removed the 3e knowsoft link (1000¥, 0.1 Essence), and made skillwires dirt cheap at a straight (Rating x 2000¥) - the latter were hideously expensive at (Rating x Memory Size x 500 ¥).  While I admit splitting skillwires into the 'active skill' part and the 'knowledge part' seems sensible to me, and I didn't really like 'oh, you just need DNI', the linguasoft + 'knowsoft link' thing was something I liked; requiring 20k + 0.1 essence per level is something that irritates me.  At and above level 4, the dedicated computer that the skilljack is becomes actually more detrimental than an entire cyberdeck being implanted into your head.

I would have taken up a tenth of a point, maybe two-tenths, for the skilljack, and left it at that.  Then when it came to the skillwires portion, I would have given the first level free of essence, or perhaps the first two levels at 0.1, and after that at the full 0.2/level.   Better yet, 1-3 at 0.1/level, 4-6 at 0.2/level above 3.  A complete set of skilljack/wires comes in at level 6 at .2 + .3 + .6 = 1.1 Essence.
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Ursus Maior

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« Reply #36 on: <05-29-14/0650:23> »
¥30,000 can buy 5 rating-6 linguasofts.

For the same price, I can buy a medium hardened milspec battle armor with helmet.

Something about that is not right.
Except the armor will cost you more as ith might not be so available and language software is actually really difficult to produce. At least from today's point of view.

For gaming reasons I would agree, though. I'd rather have the opportunity to overcome language barriers easier, and thus send my group around the world, than put them all in milspec armor.
« Last Edit: <05-30-14/0853:03> by Ursus Maior »
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Michael Chandra

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« Reply #37 on: <05-29-14/0655:20> »
Also, we may be able to get pirated software again in the future. We can't get cheap pirated armor.
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martinchaen

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« Reply #38 on: <05-29-14/0726:56> »
Ursus,

The software isn't the issue in SR5; the required skilljack is...

Sendaz

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« Reply #39 on: <05-29-14/1559:55> »
We can't get cheap pirated armor.
Actually you probably could get cheap pirated armor, but would you want to use cheap pirated armor?

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Mirikon

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« Reply #40 on: <05-29-14/2125:40> »
In Run & Gun, there is "lightly used" armor, which costs less than the new armor.
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« Reply #41 on: <06-06-14/0405:16> »
Your not kidding about the cost increase.

I didn't even play 4th & I just recently saw the increase from the old 1E.

Wires got a nice break for the higher levels, but yikes, yeah, that Skill Jack got crazy stupid expensive.  And now the Datajack can't duplicate the function any more.  Sad Panda :(


ChewyGranola

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« Reply #42 on: <06-16-14/1658:11> »
Would it be possible to build a character who tells everyone he's a total bad-ass, say former Sioux Wildcat or something, but really he's just a guy who works out and has tons of skillsofts?

PeterSmith

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« Reply #43 on: <06-16-14/1743:53> »
Would it be possible to build a character who tells everyone he's a total bad-ass, say former Sioux Wildcat or something, but really he's just a guy who works out and has tons of skillsofts?

We had a party NPC in a 4Ed game that did that.
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Aryeonos

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« Reply #44 on: <06-16-14/2204:09> »
If the system and programs are so expensive I really dont get how corps can afford to outfit all of their employees with them, remain cost effective and turn a profit, thats what baffles me.
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