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Non-lethal takedown

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valavaern

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« Reply #15 on: <08-12-12/1337:45> »
EVERY mage should have at least one of the Mana stun spells (knockout, manabolt, or manaball), as the drain for them is laughably low, even when over-casting, and with a decent roll, can take out most enemies in one shot.
  Disagree, slightly.  Not every mage needs to be able to do P damage.  Yes, every age should have some sort of spell able to deal damage, or otherwise able to incapacitate someone (Decrease Attribute, even).  But it doesn't have to be the kind of damage that kills;)
My bad; I actually mean Knockout, Stunbolt or Stunball; got lazy and didn't double check the spell names.  ^_^;
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Mirikon

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« Reply #16 on: <08-12-12/1346:12> »
Exactly. Which is why my combat types usually make a point of asking what kind of collateral the Johnson is comfortable with. If they want zero bodycount or subtle, then in that case instead of using his blade or spells, Iceblade may use the pistol with SnS ammo, or a spirit to possess him with an Electric Aura. But if the run gets blown, expect him to shift from stun to kill right quick. If there aren't restrictions on collateral, he won't bother with the nonlethal. But that doesn't mean he kills every guard in the facility. He just dispatches the ones in his path as quickly as possible. If they are armed, and trying to kill him, they're fair game.
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Mason

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« Reply #17 on: <08-12-12/1419:40> »
EVERY mage should have at least one of the Mana stun spells (knockout, manabolt, or manaball), as the drain for them is laughably low, even when over-casting, and with a decent roll, can take out most enemies in one shot.
  Disagree, slightly.  Not every mage needs to be able to do P damage.  Yes, every age should have some sort of spell able to deal damage, or otherwise able to incapacitate someone (Decrease Attribute, even).  But it doesn't have to be the kind of damage that kills;)

I think he met stunbolt and stunball, since he said stun spells and included knockout in his list.

EDIT: Should read entire page before posting.

FuelDrop

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« Reply #18 on: <08-12-12/1949:02> »
My group is split straight on this one. The Ninja and Rigger both use lethal force for preference (blades and miniguns, respectively) which is fine when the *censored* hits the fan but the Face and Jedi favor non-lethal (Capsule rounds with pepper punch and darts with narcojet respectively. He says that dart guns are 'not as clumsy or random as an assault rifle', but i'm still not convinced that they're a traditional Jedi weapon :P ) [capsule rounds with pepper punch are awesome for the non-lethal sniper because the target is a walking KO on a hit, and at that range the 2-round delay isn't a killer]. As a matter of fact the Jedi is starting to convince the rest of the team to go non-lethal as well, even to the point of giving the rigger three grand to buy a thousand gel rounds. Apparently the look on her supplier's face was priceless when she placed the order for a thousand gel rounds chambered for a minigun!

point of all this rambling: each character is going to have their own views on the virtue of lethal or non-lethal and that's just fine. However, it never hurts to keep your options open.
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Solomon

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« Reply #19 on: <08-12-12/2057:45> »
Most of the characters I play see no reason to go lethal unless the job specifically calls for it, and even then it had better be a very select target group and the money needs to be ridiculous. Killing really has no significant upside in an operation that I have ever seen and being prepared to not inflict notoriety causing casualties among civilians is always a plus. I have played characters who dont value life but even they can usually be convinced to pull punches as a business decision.

Mirikon

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« Reply #20 on: <08-12-12/2108:23> »
There's a difference between select killing, and laying waste to everyone in your path.

People tend to take different chances when they know you're only throwing SnS or pepper punch rounds. Makes them more willing to do things like expose themselves long enough to throw grenades at you, and other fun things. Plus, reinforcements will be quicker when they can ignore the unconscious people than spend time with first aid on the people who've been shot or stabbed. There's a psychological element, you see. A spray of EXEX does a much better of keeping the guards from following you too closely than a spray of gel rounds, for instance. For my characters, I tend to go lethal, but have a nonlethal option on tap. Usually isn't as effective as my lethal options, though.
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CanRay

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« Reply #21 on: <08-12-12/2130:13> »
When all else fails, nothing says "STAY THE FRAG AWAY!" like opening up the back of the van and revealing the M2-HB, and the Heavy Weapons Troll's huge grin.
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Mirikon

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« Reply #22 on: <08-12-12/2138:24> »
Well, a belt-fed, FA Assault Cannon might...
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farothel

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« Reply #23 on: <08-13-12/1251:14> »
I try to keep it non-lethal as long as possible.  Read: until we're discovered and the other side starts shooting with real rounds and we need to get out quickly.  You get less heat behind you if you keep the bodycount down.
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WSN0W

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« Reply #24 on: <08-13-12/1309:42> »
Maybe it's just because I don't play at conventions or with PUGs (Pick up groups) to do Missions or what not at FNGS (Friendly neighborhood gaming stores), but is it really common for players to try to soldier into civie locations (clubs, bars, walmarts, stuffer shacks) literally dripping with with guns like the guy on the new Arsenal cover?

Because most people that have chimed in on this thread seem to weigh in on 'I try to avoid killing' or 'I kill, but only when nessissary and usually only 'go loud' during a hot extract or escape' and no one is coming across as the 'I can't walk five feet without my panther cannon.' (except Bull, but he's honest about that.)

Mirikon

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« Reply #25 on: <08-13-12/1544:02> »
Well, it depends on the context. The exact loadout depends on where you're going. Take Iceblade, for instance. Going to a club or other social function? He'll probably just have a katana and a light pistol, maybe a knife in one boot as well. If he's out on 'business', that changes. I've run him at times where he was carrying a katana, a wakizashi, two vibroblade swords, two forearm snap blades, two cougar fine blade long knives, a ceramic knife, a survival knife, and a pair of Sakura Fubukis (one with ExEx, one with SnS). Plus a couple flash-bangs in the pockets of his lined coat. Of course, I also took a Geas on him that said he needed bladed weapons to use his magic to its fullest, and a distinctive style quality for that. That version was also trained in two weapon fighting, using maneuvers from Arsenal. But he understood that getting disarmed was a distinct threat, so he made sure to have backups for the backups. But going into someplace where 'blending' was an issue, no, he toned it down. A bit.
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Solomon

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« Reply #26 on: <08-13-12/1741:15> »
Well, it depends on the context. The exact loadout depends on where you're going. Take Iceblade, for instance. Going to a club or other social function? He'll probably just have a katana and a light pistol, maybe a knife in one boot as well. If he's out on 'business', that changes. I've run him at times where he was carrying a katana, a wakizashi, two vibroblade swords, two forearm snap blades, two cougar fine blade long knives, a ceramic knife, a survival knife, and a pair of Sakura Fubukis (one with ExEx, one with SnS). Plus a couple flash-bangs in the pockets of his lined coat. Of course, I also took a Geas on him that said he needed bladed weapons to use his magic to its fullest, and a distinctive style quality for that. That version was also trained in two weapon fighting, using maneuvers from Arsenal. But he understood that getting disarmed was a distinct threat, so he made sure to have backups for the backups. But going into someplace where 'blending' was an issue, no, he toned it down. A bit.

Where the hell did you carry all that mass? I know there are no meaningful encumbrance rules in SR but there are limits.

CanRay

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« Reply #27 on: <08-13-12/1938:09> »
Less mass than bulk.  He must have been dripping in sheathes, blades, and handles!
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ChromeZephyr

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« Reply #28 on: <08-13-12/2121:14> »
Where the hell did you carry all that mass? I know there are no meaningful encumbrance rules in SR but there are limits.

Not Mirikon, but I'd imagine the set up was something like this: katana/wakazashi in the typical daisho; vibro-swords in scabbards on the back, buckled across the chest; snap blades strapped to the forearms (natch); fineblades in thigh-strap scabbards; ceramic knife in a small-of-back concealed scabbard, and the survival knife either in a scabbard strapped to the calf or just stuffed in the boot.  The Fubukis are either always carried or are on slings.  Way more than any character I've played would carry, but I can visualize it.

How'd I do, Mirikon?

Mirikon

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« Reply #29 on: <08-13-12/2146:36> »
Spot on, Zephyr. Oh, I also forgot to mention that the blades all had Custom Look 2, and had AR overlays to look like various effects.

Frozen Wind (the Katana) and Windrazor (the wakizashi) were in the typical daisho. Flamekissed and Stormtalon (the vibroblade swords) were crossed over his back. Light and Shadow (the Cougar Fineblades) were in vertical sheathes behind his head. Blood (the ceramic knife) was on his left thigh, and Bone (Survival knife) was in his right boot. I forget what the snap-razors were named. Been a while since I played that version of him. Oh yeah, the Fubuki with ExEx was in a shoulder holster, while the one with SnS was in the small of his back.

He didn't go everywhere like that, but when he was kitted out like that, it usually meant that someone was in for a world of hurt.
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