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Depth Improvement

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« on: <02-28-16/0218:24> »
Quote from: Data Trails 146pg
The Karma cost for improving Depth is 10 + (5 x new rating).
Does anyone know whether or not I can go from 1 to 6 or do I have to go step-by-step?
It seems like:
RAW 1-to-6 = 40 karma
RAI 1,2,3...6 = 150 karma

Perhaps someone involved with Data Trails spoke up about this? Any ideas?

Marcus Gideon

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« Reply #1 on: <02-28-16/0223:36> »
Unless they've completely gone off the deep end (entirely possible these days)...

The rule always has been that you increment 1 at a time. Even if you plan on going from 1 to 3 in a single downtime interval, you have to purchase 1->2 and then 2->3.

So it would indeed cost you the full 150 Karma.
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« Reply #2 on: <02-28-16/0236:03> »
I may have missed it, but I didn't see any incremental stipulations. 

Marcus Gideon

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« Reply #3 on: <02-28-16/0300:13> »
It's the same as spending Karma on anything else in the game.

If you started with Pistols 1, and you wanted to get yourself to Pistols 6... you have to pay to raise it up to 2, then pay more to get to 3, so on and so on. You cannot simply go from "which end to the bullets come out?" immediately to shooting the wings off a fly at a thousand yards.

The wording of the rules on Core pg 105-106 are piss poor (SNAFU) but the chart on pg 107 makes it (kinda) clear.

Starting rating 1, raising up to 2 costs 10... or raising up to 3 costs 25... or raising up to 4 costs 45
Starting rating 2, raising up to 3 costs 15... 10 + 15 = 25
Starting rating 3, raising up to 4 costs 20... 10 + 15 + 20 = 45

So you're going to pay (5x2)+10... then (5x3)+10... then (5x4)+10... for the grand total of 150 Karma at Depth 6.
The Matrix is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it when you look out your window or when you turn on your television. You can feel it when you go to work…when you go to church…when you pay your taxes.

ScytheKnight

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« Reply #4 on: <02-28-16/0414:25> »
Actually cor book says you can train multiple levels in game, there's just a limit on how many.

Quote from: Core Book P105
The maximum number of ratings you can increase
a single Attribute by in any given period of downtime
during a campaign is 2. If you wish to raise the Attribute
any further, you will have to wait for more downtime.

Quote from: Core Book P106
A character may raise the
Rating of their Active, Knowledge, or Language skills up
by a maximum of 3 rating points per any one downtime.
To raise the skill(s) any further, they have to wait for another
period of downtime.
Active Skill Groups cost new Rating x 5 to raise and
can only be raised by 1 rating per downtime.
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Kiirnodel

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« Reply #5 on: <02-28-16/0455:17> »
Actually cor book says you can train multiple levels in game, there's just a limit on how many.

Quote from: Core Book P105
The maximum number of ratings you can increase
a single Attribute by in any given period of downtime
during a campaign is 2. If you wish to raise the Attribute
any further, you will have to wait for more downtime.

Quote from: Core Book P106
A character may raise the
Rating of their Active, Knowledge, or Language skills up
by a maximum of 3 rating points per any one downtime.
To raise the skill(s) any further, they have to wait for another
period of downtime.
Active Skill Groups cost new Rating x 5 to raise and
can only be raised by 1 rating per downtime.

That is a limit on how many times you may increase a single skill (or skill group) during a single downtime. You still pay for each individual increase. There isn't any sort of discount for saving up to pay for several increases at once. The limit on raising skills in downtime is to prevent a character from going on a 3 month hiatus and suddenly going from rank 1 to rank 9 in a single skill. The idea is that you need to pace things out, you can't just cram everything and raise a single skill to an extreme degree.

ScytheKnight

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« Reply #6 on: <02-28-16/0510:49> »
Actually cor book says you can train multiple levels in game, there's just a limit on how many.

Quote from: Core Book P105
The maximum number of ratings you can increase
a single Attribute by in any given period of downtime
during a campaign is 2. If you wish to raise the Attribute
any further, you will have to wait for more downtime.

Quote from: Core Book P106
A character may raise the
Rating of their Active, Knowledge, or Language skills up
by a maximum of 3 rating points per any one downtime.
To raise the skill(s) any further, they have to wait for another
period of downtime.
Active Skill Groups cost new Rating x 5 to raise and
can only be raised by 1 rating per downtime.

That is a limit on how many times you may increase a single skill (or skill group) during a single downtime. You still pay for each individual increase. There isn't any sort of discount for saving up to pay for several increases at once. The limit on raising skills in downtime is to prevent a character from going on a 3 month hiatus and suddenly going from rank 1 to rank 9 in a single skill. The idea is that you need to pace things out, you can't just cram everything and raise a single skill to an extreme degree.

And just nearby...

Quote from: P106
To calculate the cost of
jumping more than one level, subtract the number in the
column with your current Rating from the number in the
column with your desired higher Rating.
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Marcus Gideon

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« Reply #7 on: <02-28-16/1204:29> »

Core book's failed attempt at legalese sounding rules

Discussing legalese

And just nearby...

Quote from: P106
To calculate the cost of jumping more than one level, subtract the number in the column with your current Rating from the number in the column with your desired higher Rating.

Like I said, that section at the end of CharGen which discusses how to spend Karma during gameplay... is poorly written.

What it comes down to is; you can only purchase a couple ranks per downtime. There is no 5 minute download to teach you Kung Fu (not without Skillwires at least ;) ). And you have to purchase each rank in sequence. You can't just pay the final price from the beginning and skip the middle costs.
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bangbangtequila

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« Reply #8 on: <02-28-16/1230:31> »
As much as what you're saying is sensible, I do believe you can actually jump multiple ranks, as the core book gives an example of it.

Quote from: SR5 Core, pg 106
If you wanted to go from 4 to 6, you’d move one column
further to the right and see that you needed a total of 55
Karma to make this increase.

Kiirnodel

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« Reply #9 on: <02-28-16/1335:07> »
As much as what you're saying is sensible, I do believe you can actually jump multiple ranks, as the core book gives an example of it.

Quote from: SR5 Core, pg 106
If you wanted to go from 4 to 6, you’d move one column
further to the right and see that you needed a total of 55
Karma to make this increase.

Which is the cost of increasing to 5 (5x5=25), and then to 6 (6x5=30) added together (25+30=55). So the answer to the OP cost-wise is: you have to go step-by-step.