[Zilfer]

I can say I have no experience with bribing people including DM's so I can definately say I need some help applying it to game.

Currently I'm wondering if Bribes have been to low/too high for some of the things.

I'll throw you some examples in game and keep in mine we are generally new to teh scene and we mostly play DnD not shadowrun on weekends.


Example 1: this is the most recent one, I had to get to Singapore and I paid 50K to ride in a 2 passenger (with 3 people) plane across the Pacific Ocean to Singapore. We landed outside singapore and had to cross the water to get into Singapore by boat but that went over fine. So Curious is that TOO expensive? I am playing a mage, my buddy was playing somewhat of a street sam, and my GF was playing her "assassin" who's build like a Street Sam as well, but she's got a bit of Face in her, though so does my mage.


Example 2: They had a wetwork job of finding and killing 5 people, and someone had already botched this job being a newbie at least for this target but i'm curious about the bribe aspect of it. So they were going after an Info broker, and they bribed the receptionist 2,000 Nuyen to give them access to the floor. (if Nuyen = 1$ not sure it does) that's like a month's paycheck, or close to it for some people. So the Receptionist allowed them to go. It looked like a child and his mother.... (the child is a changling who's stuck in the body of a child xD)

Example 3: Back to my mage Scythe. This was an off weekend with only me, and another player and 1 dm so it was a low mission. We had to recover an artifact from the bottom of the Ocean. No biggie, we "rent" a sub from a guy with a hook for a hand. I can't tell you how many hook jokes we made. I was about crying and this poor guy.... anyways. We go down go out the hatch lock in subba gear I go down deeper with a magical physical shield on me as the DM allowed me to go deeper then most sustaining it. Apparently it was deeper then our Subba suit's would go. I get down there and find a small ring, before seeing an Awakened GLOWFISH. -.- my mage was not ammused so 1 edged stunball later it's floating up and the fishy gets diced by a few knives to make sure it's dead and i head up. Now the Police show up, checking us just to see what we are up to. (this is not random, earlier i astral projected looking for this magic item and I came upon a boat with two figures. I decided to manifest.... the hill billies did not survive.... I think...*) Anyways my buddy decide's he's got a problem with the police officer and taunts him to the point where you might as well just arrest him for being that way to Lonestar. So I get in the sub shut him out and move on leaving him there for Lonestar, well the guy comes to get him and he hits the guy with a flash grenade. Needless to say no where to go he eventually has to stop swimming and get on the boat where the guy with his two buddies zap him with stun rods. He goes to jail obviously.

Well I bribe the guard'smen 7,500 just to ignore the escape. He literally does only 2 things for this bribe. The key into the toilet after he peas into it. Then just leaves his post for a moment. Still a comotion happened because my buddy had to get out the front door. XD Too high low or just right?



*- ok so the Red Necks don't see me at first until I say hi. One looked and freaked out and threw a grenade!!! Obviously went straight through me into the water.... other guy looked at me and was like Ghost! so he jumped into the water..... Grenade + guy = bad combination. So the guy's out there bleeding. Guy in the boat ignores me and goes to try and save him by moving the boat crit glitches and runs his friend over who's now in really bad shape. Dude in boat jumps in and starts getting the guy towards the boat and throws him up. Meanwhile from where I'm standing I see dark figure's coming from the distance. Enter Jaw's Theme.... literally awakened sharks. Dude throws poor guy onto the boat only seconds before he's chomped from the side nothing but hands left. I start yellin at the guy trying to wake the poor bastard up who's friend is dead. He wakes up ignores me completely or trying to drops the current rotor that he ruined by getting ran over by and pulls out his mini one. I ask the DM are they smart enough to fill that thing? He rolls.... crit glitch >.> i'm seeing a pattern here for red necks..... XD So he goes to the other side of the boat and i see he had a home made flame thrower on the boat and he uses the fuel from that for it..... so smiling i look at the DM one more time. does he know which way is land anymore? Aftering being thrashed like that i find it unlikely, so the DM rolls and I see all 1's pop up on the dice. My mage shakes his head as the red neck STILL INGORES ME and heads out to open sea.... I go back to my body call Lonestar telling them my buddies probably lost at sea got a weird message before they lost signal range and then I hang up to continue the mission.

[Mason]

Don't think of the bribe in terms of the money. Think of it in terms of what the money represents. What can they get with that much money? For 7500, that's half of the way to a new car, for a nice sedan. Or that's quite a few nights out on the town. You can also look at it in terms of monthly wages, if it helps.

I have a quick and easy to use house rule system, if you like. For every 10% of their monthly income you give them, you gain +1 die on the test to get them to help. Bigger bribes for better paid people. Also, don't forget the social penalties result is harmful to or dangerous to NPC. The bribe offsets that. The biggest thing is the bribe can be offered AFTER FAILING THE TEST. In other words, you RESORT to bribery, not start with it. Every time you up the bribe, roll more dice and add to the total. track if the total becomes a glitch. If it does, you insulted them. The GM will limit the number of offers and counteroffers based on the situation.

[Mirikon]

The amount of a bribe depends on several things.

1) Access of the person being bribed. Higher access, higher price. Lower access, lower price.
2) Connection to the person doing the bribing. Strangers = higher price. A friend might have a lower price.
3) Level of service. "Accidentally" leaving a door unlocked is nothing. Slipping the team's names in as part of Damien Knight's security detail? Big money.
4) Risk of exposure. If the service is something that is easily laid on their doorstep (providing information only three people in the sprawl know, for example), the required cost will go up.
5) Consequences of Exposure. What happens to the guy if he gets caught taking the bribe? Will he lose his job? Go to jail? Become Lofwyr's midnight snack?
6) Personal reasons. If the service supports a cause the person believes in, then they are more likely to help you. If you're an ork trying to get a Humanis member to help you get dirt on Brackhaven, that price is going to be so high you're going to look into blackmail instead of bribery.

[Angelone]

Example 1: Yeah that was waaaayyyy too much, you got it with no lube there.
Example 2: Seems about right to me. Btw, 1 nuyen is about 4-6 dollars.
Example 3: Is iffy it seems high, also having a hard time following it you bribed the guardsman on the boat?

Also a bribe isn't a get out of jail free card. Some people won't take them, some people will take them and then turn you in, and some people can't do what's promised.

[Lethe]

1 nuyen is about 4-6 dollars.

So you are saying a todays low lifestyle cost around $8000-$12000 per month? And an average medium lifestyle $20k-$30k per month?
I am pretty sure its around 1:1, maybe even 3Y = 2$.
 
Example 1: If the flight is only from international water to international water, and you have to take care about the rest of the way, there is no risk for the pilot and 10k would have been already more than enough.

Example 2: If you already look innocent, talk your way into it.. his bastard love-child and you don't want to take care anymore... If it won't work, leave the crying child in the lobby. Offering a bribe there is even more suspicious. Otherwise he could just claim you had proper credentials, no risk and ~500Y should be sufficient.

Example 3: Getting someone out of prison is expensive. Maybe you have to bribe more than one guard. What about all the cameras. But 7500Y seems reasonable... per person...

[Black]

I don't know.  The old Denver book at trips accross sectors at 10k a person.  50k for three people accross the pacific ocean and into Singapore?  Maybe.. Depends on risk more than anything else.  The trips may be long, but if they are dropped outside of Singapore and they have to get themselves in?  Then they were overcharged.  Afterall, its only a chartered flight...

However, I decided to do some research:

"The standard method for providing a rough estimate for your charter flight is to calculate flight costs by hourly rate. There are six different categories of private aircraft available for private charter and each has its own standard price range. These categories include helicopters, turboprops, light, mid-size and heavy jet aircraft and airliners. Using this standard hourly rate method, helicopter typically charter for about $1,000 to $5,000 per flight hour and turboprops charter from about $1,550 to $2,500 per flight hour. Light jets range anywhere from $2,250 to $3,450 and mid-sized jets charter for about $3,450 to $5,000 per flight hour. Heavy jets charter from $5,000 to $9,000 per hour and airliners start at $6,500 per hour. "

Taken from Stratos Jet Charter Service.  Actually, if these figures are taken as an indication, then 50k may be about right...

[raggedhalo]

So you are saying a todays low lifestyle cost around $8000-$12000 per month? And an average medium lifestyle $20k-$30k per month?
I am pretty sure its around 1:1, maybe even 3Y = 2$.

Nope, as far back as NAGNA and others, it's been 1Y = $4

Don't forget about inflation; after the VITAS plagues, Crash of '29, the loss of loads of territory, and rise of extraterritoriality, not to mention the widespread existence of a much stronger currency (the nuyen), it stands to reason that the value of the UCAS Dollar would shrink noticeably.

That said, the purchasing power of a single dollar will have reduced a lot.  Take a look at the Lifestyle descriptions and their monthly costs, and use that to work out different people's monthly (and therefore annual) income - I suspect most people spend their entire income on their Lifestyle, as it includes food, entertainment, transportation, clothes, etc. etc.

[Mirikon]

The 1 nuyen = 4 UCAS dollars setup is accurate enough. However, the UCAS dollar is not the same value of a US dollar today. Inflation, Crashes, the Ghost Dance War, losing the CAS, getting knocked off as the world reserve currency, and so on all make for a dollar that is significantly less valuable than it would be today. Now, if you wanted to compare prices between the nuyen and the US dollar today, that might be much closer.

[Lethe]

So you are saying a todays low lifestyle cost around $8000-$12000 per month? And an average medium lifestyle $20k-$30k per month?
I am pretty sure its around 1:1, maybe even 3Y = 2$.

Nope, as far back as NAGNA and others, it's been 1Y = $4

Don't forget about inflation;

The whole reason of comparing Nuyen to Dollar is to estimate the Nuyen cost compared to our standards. Our todays knowledge/prices is the only reasonable thing to take for a comparison of prices.

The $ might be much less worth in 2070, but do you know how much? If inflation is 4:1 and your NAGNA 1:4, we are at my 1:1.  After all i compared it to todays lifestyle cost.

2,000 Nuyen to give them access to the floor. (if Nuyen = 1$ not sure it does) that's like a month's paycheck

Even Zilfer compared to todays $. Why? Because it makes sense.

Even you mentioned NAGNA and inflation, which cancels each other out. Meaning you can as well ignore both of them.
1:1 is a very good estimate.

[raggedhalo]

After all i compared it to todays lifestyle cost.

But today's lifestyle cost varies hugely depending on where you live - both in terms of which country you're in, but also where in that country you live.

I do not think there is much value comparing 2073 prices to today's prices; as I said in my post (but which you seem to have ignored), you're much better off comparing them to 2073 lifestyle costs, which are clearly laid out in the rules.

[Lethe]

I do not think there is much value comparing 2073 prices to today's prices; as I said in my post (but which you seem to have ignored), you're much better off comparing them to 2073 lifestyle costs, which are clearly laid out in the rules.

Well it was kinda redundant, because i used the lifestyle comparison already to conclude my 1:1 ratio before.

[CitizenJoe]

1. Where did you get a 2 passenger plane that could cross the pacific?

B.  There's a stipulation that says if you can't find the price in the books, just assume IRL dollars as nuyen.  Nuyen to UCAS dollars conversion was about 4-5 dollars per nuyen, and it fluctuated.

[Lethe]

B.  There's a stipulation that says if you can't find the price in the books, just assume IRL dollars as nuyen.

Thanks, i was sure about it, but couldn't find where i got the stipulation from. Maybe you got a reference?

[Zilfer]

1. Where did you get a 2 passenger plane that could cross the pacific?

B.  There's a stipulation that says if you can't find the price in the books, just assume IRL dollars as nuyen.  Nuyen to UCAS dollars conversion was about 4-5 dollars per nuyen, and it fluctuated.

I think the DM was running off the assumption that 70 years from now there might be a small plane that could do that. Probably figured their was wiggle room there.

Sounds like we got mixed reviews on what a Nuyen is, i think I like it being compared to 1$ myself since I can price things easier that way. Or at least in my head. Not that it will be perfect.


Mason + Mirikon thanks for those responces they help quite a bit.


As for the flight, it was mostly just over the sea and we had to get a boat to finally get into Singapore. The pilot told us we would be landing outside and have to find our way into there. (it seemed like it would be dangerous for the pilot to land IN singapore so I don't think it was TOO dangerous for him since he was dropping us outside Singapore.



So what I got mostly out of responses is that the flight may have been a bit overpriced to get to Singapore, which I thought it might be but I went ahead with it since the job is supposed to pay well more than that. (Already have 1 of our team members dead so I really won’t have to worry about loosing that money if we all die, which I doubt.)

The bribing the jailer might have been a bit less, because the only danger he really had was getting catch when I gave him the money, “misplacing” a key, and using the restroom at the wrong time. As for the Camera’s we assumed he was the guy watching over the cameras of the cell block. (We don’t know anything about jails as you can tell none of us are real criminals after all xD) Yeah I was worried the guy would just take the money and recatch my friend during his escape attempt to get a promotion or something. xD


Also was getting the feeling, from Mason that you don’t start with Bribes first you try to convince them to give you access or to do what you want, and depending on what you want to do there’s social modifiers (which I should make a note to look up next time). Bribes will add bonus dice to a Con/Negotiation test is what I’m guessing it is. When you “buy” these extra dice it’s not a guaranteed you get what you asked for. If you pay more for a guarantee then it’s most likely going to be higher and still not 100% that they won’t back stab you unless you blackmail.

Also that brings up another question.

I’m not quite sure how to handle blackmail. I mean how do you get blackmail on someone. For example the receptionist at the front desk if you threatened her family she could just call security or lonestar no?

Any comments on Blackmail in a game?

[Mirikon]

Blackmail is easy if you are a Yakuza, Mafioso, or other 'made man'. You have the weight of a syndicate behind you, afterall.

For runners, however, there are a couple ways to go about getting blackmail material:

1) Surveillance/Legwork. Find out what your target's vices are. Then find a way to get the incriminating photos.

2) Hacking. Dive their system to find the pictures of 'Spring Break 2068', or whatever embarrassing info that you can.

3) Fake it. Get a hacker or forger to create evidence of wrongdoing. Suddenly your target's name is on the title to the bunraku parlor, these pictures of them involved with kiddie porn 'appear', etc.

4) Family. Threatening them in abstract is amateurish. Show up at the kid's daycare, convince the people that you were sent there to take the kid home because the target had a business engagement. Don't harm the kid. Get him an ice cream as you drop him off. Contact the target with your 'requests'. The point is to show how easily you can "reach out and touch someone".