[Xenon]

more specifically it would be the access point of the host .... Physical distance between the two personas don't mean anything since they are both occupying the host at that time it would be distance between each of them and the host.

Oh... This is interesting.

So would you say that the physical distance could be measured between the attacker and the physically closest point of the network?

For example if a host is physically located in Berlin, but one of the devices that is part of the network happen to be a vending machine in downtown Seattle. Would a hacker located in Seattle that wish to probe the network measure the distance from his cyberdeck and the vending machine in downtown Seattle...?

Actually it's even more simple than that really ... if you can "see" thecicon for the device you can hack it.

But that's the thing. It is not clear what the intention is here. What are we supposed to see and what are we not supposed to see. When is the Enter Host action required and when is it enough to 'just' have user or admin access on the network....?


I am assuming that I can 'see' a specific wireless device that have a matrix connection (for example a traffic camera overlooking in the corner of Zimmerstrasse and Wilhelmstrasse in central Berlin - even if I am currently physically in Seattle) and no matter if it is part of a mobile personal network, part of a stationary wide area network or not part of a network at all (in the sense that I can target it with Data Spike or Spoof Command).

I am also assuming that I don't need to take a test to 'see' a specific device, unless the network it is part of is running silent (in which case it seem to be resolved as a matrix perception test opposed by the network's sleaze rating plus willpower rating of the owner if PAN or whoever, if any, is currently monitoring if host network... where I need at least a tie - in which case I will 'see' the entire network including all the 'nodes' or 'devices' or 'access points' being part of the network).

But I am also also assuming that I cannot 'see' a specific file stored inside a host (in the sense that I can't hash check it, disarm its data bomb, crack its protection nor copy it) unless i first gain at least user access on the network and that I also (in addition) spend the required minor action in order to actually enter the host.

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

Yeah, the continued existence of the "Enter Host" concept muddies things.  I'm fine with the idea of "you can't even see icons defended by the host before you enter the host".  I'm also fine with "Hosts are just PANs run by special master 'devices'", but the latter being the case begs the question of what's the point of entering a host then.

[SDTroll]

Actually it's even more simple than that really ... if you can "see" thecicon for the device you can hack it. In otherwords you can data spike (or use any action requiring outsider access) anything anywhere ... as long as you can detect it. Want to do something that requires user or admin access then hack the network it belongs to first to gain access.

So stuff inside a host is just like anything inside of PAN ... a network is a network is a network... the defining "attribute" is can you detect it?

But the rules say you can’t see icons with a host without entering the host. So you can’t data spike something inside a host without entering it, right?

[Banshee]

It depends on the host.

Some host have icon that are publically visible and require no further action to interact with.
Then entering a host can vary depending on it's security settings. A semi public host may have outsider level (though unlikely but I can see some host like chatrooms and such being in this range) where all you have to do is use the minor action "Enter Host". Then you have host with tighter security that requires User or Asmin access before you can enter.

It might help of you think of the enter host action as logging in to a website. Some are super easy where you setup your own user ID and password, some require authentication, and some can only be given by the sysadmin for the website.