Ok, we both agree that bullwhips should be good at tripping, yes? But you're headscratching at why combat axes and cyberjaws do it better?
Yes. We are in agreement. To expand it a bit- currently the bullwhip is the weapon LEAST likely to succeed out of All weapons in the CRB. Furthermore the bull whip is the only weapon with special rules regarding tripping.
Despite some vehement claims to the contrary, this isn't a board game. It requires a GM. In this version of Shadowrun, the GM doesn't just apply the rules as written in the rulebook. The rulebook is assuming the GM will apply their version of common sense, rather than trying to legislate every little thing
Agree and No, Im not one of those people claiming its a board game
So, what a GM is expected to do in the case of you wanting to trip someone with a bullwhip, is consider giving you circumstantial edge because the weapon is so appropriate to the task. Or perhaps instead discounting the edge action. Or maybe disallowing the target from spending edge to on the opposed roll. Or impose some other penalty, such as a threshold or dice pool reduction, to the opposed test. Etc. The rulebook doesn't spell how how to represent a bullwhip's advantage in tripping people because it's assumed to be better to let the GM decide if such an advantage should even apply in the first place, and if so what form it would take. The problem with codifying edge is you cause an endless string of "well, what if..." followon questions. Saying "GM will handle it" is not just elegant, it keeps the rulebook from being 1000 pages.
Hhmm maybe we have a misunderstanding here.
The bull whip has a special rule when using the trip action- so the CRB already spells out the advantage of using a bull whip (you gain a minor action). And its only the bullwhip that had This advantage- sadly as its the weapon least likely to succeed (except unarmed characters with STR 1 or 2) the bonus minor action isnt super attractive.
And regarding Edge. I think you might be thinking on the Edge tumble action(page 48) and not the trip action (non-edge action page 42).
The tumble action is actually Also relevant to This discussion. I just forgot to include it- if I had that then my post might have been a bit more clear.
I fear that as the whip already has the "well, what if.." rule printed, then the GM would be less inclined to make something Up himself, because the CRB already used word Counts of Spelling out the bullwhip special rule when doing a non-edge trip action.
I believe ( but not willing to put money on it) that I could create a Better rule, both representing the bullwhips advantage, but also doing away with wierd stuff as cyberjaws and monowhips advantages, and less math, without using higher word Counts.
It seem as if the of Trip(I) on p. 42 would cover the case where you use brute force and heavy momentum to cause unbalance and with that forcefully strike someone down to the ground.
It does not seem to cover a British gentlemen using an umbrella (would that classify as Bartitsu?) -or a cowboy using a bullwhip for that matter- to lock and pull your leg in order to trip you
Similar goes for the Tackle action (after you create a grapple) on p. 111. It seem to cover the case where the offender would apply raw strength and huge body mass to forcefully bring the target down to the ground.
It does not seem to cover a judo master that don't have to be Hulk or anything in order to bring a [potentially much larger] target down to the ground by using the target's own momentum, strength and body mass against him.
Yes, and that is a shame. Especially because we already have a melee action that represents Strong opponents, and big nasty weapons. The tumble action on page 48.
I Hope (and believe) that the judo dude Will gain some Better tripping options in a splatbook. But in the current state he would be Better of by cheating a bit and using a shock glove to the gonads to the ork he is going to trip.
Just sayin' you hit someone in the ankles with an Axe, they're gonna fall down.
Pretty sure you hit someone anywhere in the lower leg area with a Monowhip they'll fall down as well. Having your leg chopped off will do that.
A regular whip should probably just have an Edge Action for tripping that is better than regular tripping.
The top 3 best melee weapon most likely to succeed tripping* an opponent are monowhip, combat axe and cyber jaw.
*Tripping without damaging the opponent. So the whip doesnt even need to cut a limb to 2 to have the opponent trip.
Remember the trip action doesnt cause any dmg to the opponent. So chopping of a limb is not part of the trip action. BUT you could definetely use the tumble action (if the dmg is more than their body score. Then they gain the Prone status).
