[guyk]

After reading the matrix section of the rule book 3 times I'm still not clear on how cyberdecks, cyberjacks and commlinks interact. Does a decker have to have all three to be effective or does a cyberdeck-cyberjack combo replaces the need for a commlink?

Accessing the matrix say you can do it with a cyberdeck or commlink but the cyberdeck has no data processing, so that mean you can't create a PAN using it?
And while cyberjack has a device rating nowhere does it says you can use it to access the matrix, does that mean that you would still need a commlink? if so does the D/F of the cyberjack replace the comlinks? If so is the number of devices in you PAN determined by the cyberjack data processing even when it isn't the device you use to access the matrix?
And finally, both cyberdecks and commlinks have active program slots, do you use the higher one or do you combine the two?

[Gareth]

I think you need:

Datajack, cyberjack (provides D/F attributes) or trodes to connect to brain (or use a screen + keyboard like a luddite)

A commlink (provides D/F attributes) or cyberdeck (provides A/S attributes) to connect to internet (see last paragraph on devices, P.174)

If you want all four attributes at levels above zero, you'll want a combo that includes all four attributes (probably cyberjack + cyberdeck) as you get attributes from the devices you accessed the matrix through (P. 174),

Though it's a bit unclear whether datajack + cyberdeck + commlink allows you to do this as well as one of those devices is "extra"...

[penllawen]

Consider it this way:

A normal person uses a commlink and 'trodes or a datajack. They get a Matrix persona with a small amount of Data Processing and Firewall, and no Attack or Sleaze. They can do legal stuff, but nothing else; and they can resist Matrix attacks, but not very well. (Or they can just use its screen, which I don't think counts as "Matrix" access at all (they have no persona etc.))

A decker uses a cyberjack and a cyberdeck. They get a Matrix persona with decent ASDF stats. They can do illegal stuff as they have Attack and Sleaze stats. Cyberdecks include everything a commlink has and don't then need a commlink to get online (this was clear in 5e and doesn't seem to be explicit in 6e, but I think it's change blindness and not an intentional change.)

Deckers might choose to also carry a spare commlink, perhaps for subtlety reasons (cyberdecks are illegal while cyberjacks require licences [1], and decks are physically large enough to be noticeable) or as a backup. I have no idea what happens if a decker goes online with a cyberjack+commlink combo; can anyone shed any more light on that? I'd guess the cyberjack's D/F stats override the commlink's, but I can't find a specific rule.

[1] Which, thinking about it, is a bit weird, no?

[Gareth]

Ooh - also not clear where an RCC fits in here, it has D/F attributes, so possibly replaces a cyberdeck and/or commlink,

[Gareth]

can anyone shed any more light on that? I'd guess the cyberjack's D/F stats override the commlink's, but I can't find a specific rule.

P.174 does say you can:

You can rotate all attributes through your persona, even if they originated from different devices

I would guess that would mean that you can pick the four attributes from all available devices,

Possibly confusion here as "your Matrix attributes are determined by the device you’re using to access the Matrix"

So, does that mean you have access to all attributes in devices in your PAN, or just the devices you are using for access,

[Michael Chandra]

An RCC would fit like a commlink into a PAN, but cannot PAN (errata noting this pending, per Banshee) with a Cyberdeck to allow both rccing and decking.

I'd say, no time to dig into rules now, you need either Jack or Comm with a Deck for a full PAN. If you use both, you can combine them statwise: E.g. a 3/1 comm and a 3/2 Jack could be used for 3/3 stats. (That's ignoring the horrible raw that suggests you can mix your A/S and D/F stats... Because that quite frankly is batshit insane.)

I've been told you use the LOWEST of the two active program stats. So a commlink-cyberdeck combo is very painful.

[penllawen]

Ooh - also not clear where an RCC fits in here, it has D/F attributes, so possibly replaces a cyberdeck and/or commlink,

Oh yeah -- again, falling back to how 5e described things (as I think 6e is a bit incomplete here) -- it's basically like a cyberdeck, in so far as it's a "commlink + other stuff." Only in this case, the other stuff is drone control, rather than Attack+Sleaze stats. So either device can replace a commlink, but RCCs and cyberdecks cannot replace each other. And neither RCCs or cyberdecks need a commlink to function.

[penllawen]

I'd say, no time to dig into rules now, you need either Jack or Comm with a Deck for a full PAN. If you use both, you can combine them statwise: E.g. a 3/1 comm and a 3/2 Jack could be used for 3/3 stats.... I've been told you use the LOWEST of the two active program stats. So a commlink-cyberdeck combo is very painful.

Huh. Getting to use the highest individual D/F stats but being stuck with lowest program stat is a bit counter-intuitive.

[Gareth]

An RCC would fit like a commlink into a PAN, but cannot PAN

Yeah - the PAN rules seem a little restrictive and weird,

As I understand it, commlinks and cyberdecks can host a PAN (or any device with a data processing attribute and GM permission),

The rules don't seem to specify (at least, I can't find it), but I'm guessing that this lets them share a firewall (as you need access to the PAN to access the device)?

There doesn't seem to be any restriction on nesting devices, and some characters carry a lot of devices - so the device limit seems pointless as anything other than an exercise in paperwork... So carrying three commlinks would seem to be effective (indeed, the lowest tier will require several sequential hacks to access this way)...

e.g.:

Devices -slaved to-> Commlink -slaved to-> Commlink -slaved to-> Commlink

[Michael Chandra]

Data processing is how many slaves you can have in a PAN. So no nesting layers. And yeah all devices share the firewall rating.

[penllawen]

Data processing is how many slaves you can have in a PAN. So no nesting layers.

The highest commlink -- Rating 6 - has Data Processing 3. In SR5, a commlink could manage (Rating x 3) slaved devices (SR5 CRB pg233). That's a huge shift. Are you sure that's correct? Three devices isn't enough for, well, basically anyone. Doesn't that mandate that almost all characters who aren't operating with active decker "air support" have almost all their gear either in wireless off mode or sitting directly on the Matrix, naked and unprotected?

Edit to add -- MC's quote is indeed RAW -- see my post below. Wow!

[Gareth]

Data processing is how many slaves you can have in a PAN. So no nesting layers.

Ummm, the layers are all in different PANs, so surely you'd assess each nest individually,

Regardless, penllawen stands - how many commlinks do you need to protect your electronics?

[penllawen]

Wow, no, MC is correct. SR6 CRB pg175: "Data Processing is the raw computing power of a device. Data Processing governs how quickly a device can operate and contributes to running programs concurrently. The DataProcessing attribute is the limit of many devices you can slave to it."

Quartering the number of devices a non-decker can put in their PAN is quite a big deal.

[penllawen]

Regardless, penllawen stands - how many commlinks do you need to protect your electronics?

Thinking on... the top cyberjack D/F rating is 9/8.

So how many cyberjacks does your team decker need to have so they can slave all the team's devices and firewall them?! "Hi, I'm Sam Samurai, and I'm carrying a gun plus two flash, two smoke, and two frag grenades. Is that OK?" "Hi Sam, I'm Deckard Decker, and no, no it is not."

[Michael Chandra]

Data processing is how many slaves you can have in a PAN. So no nesting layers.

Ummm, the layers are all in different PANs, so surely you'd assess each nest individually,

Regardless, penllawen stands - how many commlinks do you need to protect your electronics?

You're either in a PAN or WAN or solo. No nesting.