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Increase [Attribute]

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Bradd

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« Reply #15 on: <01-20-11/2300:08> »
I don't see how that breaks the rule; you need to cast Increase Reflexes at Force 4 to get the maximum result.

Chaemera

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« Reply #16 on: <01-20-11/2325:09> »
Okay, here's the words for Increase [Attribute]:
Quote from:  SR4A, pg. 208
The Force of the spell must equal or exceed the (augmented) value of the attribute being affected. The attribute is increased by an amount equal to the hits scored.

Since you have to declare the Force before you case the spell (SR4A, pg. 183, Step 2), you don't know what the stat will be after rolling, therefore you have to use the stat pre-rolling.

So if Johnny has Cha 3 and you cast Increase Charisma on him. you must cast at Force 3+.

Casting Improved Intuition on Sarah, who has Int 3 (5), you have to cast at Force 5+, since the Force must meet or exceed the augmented rating.



There is no threshold that has to be met; therefore, each hit (up to the maximum of Force, SR4A, pg 182) is added to the existing Attribute Rating. Additionally, no exemption to the rule of maximum augmented ratings is specified, so if you hit the augmented max before you hit the Force of the spell, additional hits are wasted.

Casting the spell on Johnny at Force 3, you get 5 hits. Discarding 2, that leaves 3 hits, increasing Johnny's Charisma to 6.

For Sarah, the Improved Intuition spell garners a total of 4 hits which would be enough to bring her augmented Intuition up to 9. However, as a troll, her maximum augmented Intuition is 7, so two hits are tossed aside.


@Kot: How does Increase Initiative break the rules? To keep four hits, you have to cast at Force 4. Force limits maximum hits, not maximum net hits.
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Bradd

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« Reply #17 on: <01-21-11/0319:58> »
Quote from:  SR4A, pg. 208
The Force of the spell must equal or exceed the (augmented) value of the attribute being affected. The attribute is increased by an amount equal to the hits scored.

Since you have to declare the Force before you case the spell (SR4A, pg. 183, Step 2), you don't know what the stat will be after rolling, therefore you have to use the stat pre-rolling.

To play devil's advocate: You don't need to know the final rating to apply this rule. You declare Force, cast the spell, and apply net hits. The final result cannot exceed Force, just as gross hits cannot exceed Force.

That said, I think your interpretation is correct. I think the spell might be under-costed, but then again, if the drain is non-trivial then more of the weirdness comes to light.

Chaemera

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« Reply #18 on: <01-21-11/0557:18> »
Quote from:  SR4A, pg. 208
The Force of the spell must equal or exceed the (augmented) value of the attribute being affected. The attribute is increased by an amount equal to the hits scored.

Since you have to declare the Force before you case the spell (SR4A, pg. 183, Step 2), you don't know what the stat will be after rolling, therefore you have to use the stat pre-rolling.

To play devil's advocate: You don't need to know the final rating to apply this rule. You declare Force, cast the spell, and apply net hits. The final result cannot exceed Force, just as gross hits cannot exceed Force.

To respond to the devil, if the RAI is for it to be the post-casting augmented attribute, then an errata is required. The spell says Force meets or exceeds (augmented) Attribute Rating, which is defined as my Attribute Rating + any current augmentations. If the spell were meant to be based off your after-casting attribute, it would read more like the following:

"The Force must equal or exceed the augmented Attribute Rating to which the caster is attempting to increase the Attribute. The attribute is increased by an amount equal to the hits scored, but no higher than the Force at which the spell was cast."

That said, I think your interpretation is correct. I think the spell might be under-costed, but then again, if the drain is non-trivial then more of the weirdness comes to light.

Keep in mind that low Force means easily dispelled, a few times not realizing there was someone/thing capable of counterspelling and your group should start raising the Force of their spells (and therefore the Drain) higher than necessary to cast the spell.
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Bradd

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« Reply #19 on: <01-21-11/1657:59> »
The spell's DV is ½F-2, so you can cast it at Force 7 before the drain budges from 1 box. That's plenty high enough to resist dispelling, and it's high enough for anyone who isn't already superhuman.

Mäx

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« Reply #20 on: <01-21-11/1721:41> »
The spell's DV is ½F-2, so you can cast it at Force 7 before the drain budges from 1 box.
Force 8 actually, you round down when halving the force.
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Bradd

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« Reply #21 on: <01-21-11/1813:36> »
Right, that's what I meant to say: The DV is still only 1 at Force 7.

Chaemera

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« Reply #22 on: <01-21-11/1840:17> »
Fair enough.
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