[Zeroman]

Hello!

I am completely new to Shadowrun and always had an interesting playing it and starting to learn how to play and how to run a Shadowrun game.
I made my first character over the weekend and am excited to try it in a play-by-post thread to get an idea how to play to make it easier to run for others.
The concept is a martial artist elf specializing in hand to hand combat. I am not using cyberware/bioware to affect my character's body and not using magic at the moment with him.
I only have the core rulebook right now, so I saw in Chummer that "Run and Gun" has more martial arts stuff in it and might be my answer.
I started playing Shadowrun Returns last night and I know its probably not the best representation of the PnP game but it seemed like my character concept was a little underwhelming compared to range combat or adepts.
Is this true in the PnP game? Am I not going to be able to be viable in combat with no cyberware/bioware or no chi magic? Or is there something I'm missing from not reading RnG yet?
If you want to see my character, he is in the Big O Black Book of Runners thread.

Thank you for any advice!

[falar]

Excellent hand-to-hand really can't be done without some level of augmentation or magic powers in the form of adept-sauce. There are a couple of reasons for this, but it's really down to the key concept of Shadowrun - everything comes with a price. If you want to be awesome at anything, you're going to pay for it either in augmentation or in magic.

Also, I'd be a little careful of the Martial Arts. There are a ton of options there, but until you've had a little experience with the system, it's really easy to pick up a bunch of stuff that's really ineffective.

That said - there are a few things you need for a great hand-to-hand character -

• A way to get close to your target. This usually comes in two flavors - Stealth and Speed. Stealth is pretty obviously a high sneaking skill and the right gear to blend in. Speed is usually managed with a high Agility and some augmentations from Chrome Flesh. Get Skimmers to double your movement speed (but have a higher chance of knockdown) and digigrade cyberlegs to run faster
• High strength - you need to be able to take down your targets fast, so you need to have high strength to do high damage. Combine this with good weaponry and you'll be fine here. If you go unarmed, you should highly consider augmentation that increases your damage or certain adept powers.
• Something to do when you can't get in close - this can be a variety of things, but could be Archery, Throwing Weapons or Automatics. You should definitely have one of those as a backup and I tend towards Automatics myself

I would seriously rethink the no-augmentations, no-magic stance. You're kind of crippling yourself there as a hand-to-hand combatant. HOWEVER, you would probably be making a decent "all round infiltrator" character with Skills A, Attributes B, Metatype C, Money D, Special E. You wouldn't be superb at anything, but you'd be at least okay at a lot of things.

[Jack_Spade]

The most important part in SR combat is imho going first or at the very least a close second.

Initiative is gold. It gives you more actions, let's you strike before others have a chance to strike (and if you do it right will never have the chance to strike again) and is handy to avoid being hit (since Intuition and Reaction are also your dodge attributes)

No magic/cyber can be done, but it is hard - especially if you only use core.

You will have to rely on drugs in a serious confrontation - Kamikaze to be specific.

If you really want to go unarmed, have at least a shock glove ready and better yet some shock frills on your armor.

Mind you, for a novice I wouldn't recommend it. You'll have to be pretty rules savvy to not be outclassed at every turn.

Having a gun - preferably with a decent range (like a rifle) would go a long way to improve your odds of survival. Longarms are your friend in that regard.

[Whiskeyjack]

Martial arts are generally too much buck for not enough bang.

Going normal Unarmed is a much better route. But being a fighty character with neither magic nor ware is taking an incredibly suboptimal route. You'll be slower and hit less accurately and less hard, not to mention being less resistant to damage.

The easiest character for new players is either a wared Sam or a combat adept. They're both straightforward and don't deal much with the matrix or magic subsystems. I'd look into those.

[falar]

The easiest character for new players is either a wared Sam or a combat adept. They're both straightforward and don't deal much with the matrix or magic subsystems. I'd look into those

WhiskeyJack is wise. Listen to him. I really feel like Combat Adept is one of the most straightforward roles to play, even more so than a Augmented Street Sam. There are some powers that just say, "PICK ME" so loud. Increased Reflexes, Increased Ability, Combat Sense ...

[Zeroman]

Thank you for the advice! That was kind of the feeling I was getting from playing Shadowrun Returns.
I think I'd rather try the Adept Magic powers over the augmentations, hopefully that will be usable with the base book.
Is there any kind of online reference that I can use as a quick find sorta thing?
I was planning to have both high Speed and Strength, and a bit of Stealth, but wanted to be a fast and strong martial artist. Definitely wanted to have a high Imitative since I saw myself trying to counter or disarm people.
Pistol back up was probably gonna be my range thing when needed.

My rebuild will probably be:
A - Attributes, B - Special, C - Metatype, D - Skills, E - Resources (though having a starting pool of 50k nuyen was nice.)

I saw that there was Called Shots in combat, though I don't have the rules in front of me, can it be used to disarm opponents or counter hit? Called Shots in other RPGs have been kinda bland and not worth it.

[falar]

Is there any kind of online reference that I can use as a quick find sorta thing?

See if you can find the Shadowrun Superbook. It's got a lot of information in it.

Pistol back up was probably gonna be my range thing when needed.

I recommend Automatics actually. Just pack a Machine Pistol most of the time. This allows you to branch out to Assault Rifles as needed.

I saw that there was Called Shots in combat, though I don't have the rules in front of me, can it be used to disarm opponents or counter hit? Called Shots in other RPGs have been kinda bland and not worth it.

Don't really worry about them. You're better off just hitting them. Then hitting them again.

[Zeroman]

See if you can find the Shadowrun Superbook. It's got a lot of information in it.

Found it. Thank you! Will definitely like since I can search through it.

I recommend Automatics actually. Just pack a Machine Pistol most of the time. This allows you to branch out to Assault Rifles as needed.

\

Gotcha. That makes sense though I want this character to keep his weapons small and not obvious, though I guess adept magic isn't.

Don't really worry about them. You're better off just hitting them. Then hitting them again.

Ahh bummer. Always have it pictured in my imagination a lot different than just punch, and punch again. But that seems to be the case in a lot of RPGs.

[Halinn]

I recommend Automatics actually. Just pack a Machine Pistol most of the time. This allows you to branch out to Assault Rifles as needed.

Gotcha. That makes sense though I want this character to keep his weapons small and not obvious, though I guess adept magic isn't.

Machine pistols are heavy pistol size

[falar]

I recommend Automatics actually. Just pack a Machine Pistol most of the time. This allows you to branch out to Assault Rifles as needed.

\

Gotcha. That makes sense though I want this character to keep his weapons small and not obvious, though I guess adept magic isn't.

Machine Pistol and Heavy Pistol are equally sized, as Halinn says. Also, invest in some clothes that offer concealability and those machine pistols will just DISAPPEAR.

[Top Dog]

Don't really worry about them. You're better off just hitting them. Then hitting them again.

Ahh bummer. Always have it pictured in my imagination a lot different than just punch, and punch again. But that seems to be the case in a lot of RPGs.

You do have some more options as an adept, if you take the powers for them. Those aren't in the core book, though, and you don't need them to start out - you can pick them up later, once you know the basics (the basics will cost enough anyway).

I also wouldn't agree with called shots not being worth it. They give a nice and not-too-complicated array of possibilities in combat, from doing extra damage to hindering your opponents (at the cost of less chance to hit). I'd agree that you don't have to worry about that now, since those can wait until you're familiar with the basic system. They're options available to anyone, so you don't have to worry about them during chargen.

I was planning to have both high Speed and Strength, and a bit of Stealth, but wanted to be a fast and strong martial artist.

You'll need a high AGI to be a decent combatant anyway and STR to be good at unarmed; luckily, movement speed and stealthyness depend on those two. AGI determines base speed and stealth, and STR determines running. So all you need there is a small skill investment in Sneaking and Running.

Mind you, I've never really been impressed with unarmed adepts. Unarmed in general is rather underwhelming in damage. Like any melee fighter, you need to invest heavily in STR on top of AGI to break even with ranged combatants, but you'll be further behind even then the melee weapon fighters. Street Sams at least have (relatively) cheap STR augmentations, but those cost a lot for Adepts, and Adepts can only ever get a STR+1 damage rating, where Street Sams top off at STR+3, and at an affordable cost. (Still less than melee, but hey). Unarmed does have the whole no weapons needed perk (which might make up for not being as effective if your GM restricts weapons a lot), and adepts get some nice perks street sams can't - but not enough to make it worthwhile, imho.

[Rift_0f_Bladz]

Actually, the best melee combatants, be it with a weapon or unarmed, are hybrids. In that I mean they give up some of the essence (and therefore magic and PP) for some ware. Usually stuff that adds to fist damage and sometimes soak pool, such as the bone upgrades (for both) or striking calluses (just damage). Granted any fraction of an essence loss is rounded to a whole point, but for some cash (read fair amount) you can shove a lot of 'ware into 1 essence.