NEWS

Specialization vs. Skill Rating limit at creation.

  • 6 Replies
  • 3932 Views

StruckingFuggle

  • *
  • Newb
  • *
  • Posts: 1
« on: <11-09-10/1806:39> »
Been having a bit of a discussion / disagreement with my GM regarding this. We're both a bit new at 4e, and neither of us can find a definite answer either way. I figure someone here could point us in the right direction.

The disagreement is if a character, at creation, is allowed to have a rating of five in a skill and to specialize in it. My stance is that the rules are clear you can only have a rating of 5, but specialization doesn't raise your rating. His disagreement seems to be that it's too cheesy to be legal, that it goes against the spirit of the rules because for 2 bp, you can go from 5 to 7 in something, and you're not even supposed to have 7 in a skill - let alone something as common as sniper rifles when you're a sniper, so 'surely it's not legal' because it gives you a 7 and there's no sacrifice or tradeoff because you use sniper rifles a bunch and it's only 2 bp, compared to the 8 bp for two dots and the even more bp for a positive quality to get over 7.

I guess, arguments aside on if it's a good idea or a bad idea, is there any official word making it explicit that you can or can not take a specialization for a skill you have five ranks in at character creation?

Wraith235

  • *
  • Newb
  • *
  • Posts: 61
« Reply #1 on: <11-09-10/1822:07> »
I believe that specialization is treated as a Dice pool modifier of +2 in appropriate situations

your Dice pool cap is (Keep in mind) Attribute + Skill x2 (assuming a 5 agi 5 skill its 20)

meaning at 10 dice you still have another 10 you can get through modifiers ...2 from specalization ... 2 from Smartlink ... 1 from Synch (cant think of any others off my head)

but TBH if his argument that 2 BP for a +2 is too good .... point out that it is also only 2 karma during play ... and point out the cost of a smartlink to him (which does the exact same thing)


Chaemera

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 797
  • I may be a mouse, but I have a chainsaw.
« Reply #2 on: <11-09-10/1904:00> »
your Dice pool cap is (Keep in mind) Attribute + Skill x2 (assuming a 5 agi 5 skill its 20)

meaning at 10 dice you still have another 10 you can get through modifiers ...2 from specalization ... 2 from Smartlink ... 1 from Synch (cant think of any others off my head)

Well, if you use that option. . .
Quote from:  SR4A, pg. 61
Optionally, gamemasters may choose to cap dice pools (including modifiers) at 20 dice, or at twice the sum of the character's natural Attribute + Skill ratings, whichever is higher.
Emphasis in the original.

As to the OP's question, it's pretty cut and dry:
Quote from:  SR4A, pg. 84

Raising a skill costs 4 BP per rating point. Skills can only be improved to a maximum rating of 6.
The maximum skill rating for starting characters is either one skill at Rating 6 (with the rest at Rating 4 or less) or two skills at Rating 5 (with the rest at Rating 4 or less). Your character cannot start with both one Rating 6 skill and two Rating 5 skills.
Makes sense, I can have a skill at Rating 6, or two at Rating 5. All other skill Ratings must be 4 or less.

Quote from:  SR4A, pg. 68
A specialization represents a focused field of training or education in one aspect of a base skill For example, a character with Pistols skill can specialize in Semi-Automatics, improving her ability when firing any semi-automatic pistol. A specialization grants the character a dice pool modifier of +2 dice on tests using that skill when the particular specialty applies (see Specializations, p. 84). This is noted on the character sheet by adding "(+2)" after the skill rating. Only one specialization can be taken per skill
Underline mine.

So, per the RAW, a specialization doesn't do anything to your skill Rating, it provides a dice pool modifier on those tests where the speciality applies. Thus, it's not limited by the restriction on starting character skill levels. mentioned above. If it were, they'd probably say something to that effect on page 84, which they don't.

If your GM wants to house-rule it, that's his prerogative, but he shouldn't tell you that's the original intent. And as Wraith235 said:
but TBH if his argument that 2 BP for a +2 is too good .... point out that it is also only 2 karma during play ... and point out the cost of a smartlink to him (which does the exact same thing)

If he does house-rule it, I guess you, Wraith 235 and I all know where your first two Karma are going. . .
SR20A Limited Edition # 124
Obsidian Portal Profile: http://www.obsidianportal.com/profile/chaemera

voydangel

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 537
  • SR GM since 1990. Damn I'm old.
« Reply #3 on: <11-09-10/1911:20> »
What they said ^^

Super short version:
Yes - you can specialize in any skill (not groups of course) during character creation regardless of what the skills rating is. (well, so long as it's above zero.)
Specialization is a "dice pool modifier".
My tips for new GM's
Unless it is coming from an official source, RAI = "Rules As Imagined."
SR1+SR2+SR3++SR4++SR5+++h+b+++B+D382UBIE-RN---DSF-W+m+(o++)gm+MP

KarmaInferno

  • *
  • Ace Runner
  • ****
  • Posts: 2005
  • Armor Stacking Cheese Monkey
« Reply #4 on: <11-10-10/2311:20> »
Where is gets weird is for Adepts with Improved Ability, which explicitly IS a direct skill rating modifier.

 ;D




-k

Wraith235

  • *
  • Newb
  • *
  • Posts: 61
« Reply #5 on: <11-12-10/1414:31> »
even non adepts can get one that is .... - Reflex recorder

Ultra Violet

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 290
  • Child of the Matrix
« Reply #6 on: <11-12-10/1524:55> »
The natural skill rating limit is 7 (including Aptitude Quality), the augmented limit is 10 (1,5 x 7 round down), positive Dicepool modifiers are unlimited.

@KarmaInferno
The weirdest thing happen with the skill rating changing Qualities from the RC, for example: Linguist.