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2XS?

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CanRay

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« Reply #15 on: <01-03-12/1011:36> »
and don't forget that were we meet argent  8)
And the Wrecking Crew!  ;D
Si vis pacem, para bellum

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The Wyrm Ouroboros

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« Reply #16 on: <01-03-12/2310:52> »
Ugh.  There's your MS right there ...
Pananagutan & End/Line

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New Wyrm!! Now with Twice the Bastard!!

Laés is ... I forget. -PiXeL01
Play the game. Don't try to win it.

Wakshaani

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« Reply #17 on: <01-04-12/0617:03> »
MS? Multiple Sclorosis?

The Wyrm Ouroboros

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« Reply #18 on: <01-04-12/1849:45> »
Mary Sue.  Argent and the Wrecking Crew, along with center-of-everything Ryan Mercury, are what turned me off Shadowrun novel fiction, because they're all so blatantly ... I can't say, because this is generally supposed to be a family board.

One of the things -- and to be entirely honest, here's the main thing for me -- you judge a Mary Sue by is 'how do the main protagonists get along with them?'  Oh, capabilities/powers is one thing; outlook, another.  (BTW, Pollyanna wasn't a 'the world is an incredibly wonderful place!!' kind of girl, she was 'well, let's make the best out of what we have'.  She tried to see the good in even the worst situations, and if you'll recall the movie, that didn't always hold her up.)  The worst violations, IMO, are those who are automatically friendly to people they've just met, just because those are other PCs.

And yes, we have those on the boards here.

No, going by that mark, I will never, ever be in danger of playing a Mary Sue.  A character is measured by their abilities; a good character is measured by their opposition.  A great character is measured by their interaction with other PCs.

Pananagutan & End/Line

Old As McBean, Twice As Mean
"Oh, gee - it's Go-Frag-Yourself-O'Clock."
New Wyrm!! Now with Twice the Bastard!!

Laés is ... I forget. -PiXeL01
Play the game. Don't try to win it.

CanRay

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« Reply #19 on: <01-04-12/1851:14> »
Argent, a Mary Sue?  Sounds like a high-end contractor to me that was willing to take on some hooding jobs for rare occasions.

Anyhow, Mary Sues don't get as beat up as Argent usually does.
Si vis pacem, para bellum

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The Wyrm Ouroboros

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« Reply #20 on: <01-04-12/1906:25> »
Argent and the Wrecking Crew: yes, Mary Sues.  Incredibly competent?  Check.  Always wins?  Check.  (Doesn't matter if they get the shit kicked out of them on the way; real people lose.  Gets along with other PCs / Main Good-Guy Characters instantly?  Check.

Mary ******* Sues.
Pananagutan & End/Line

Old As McBean, Twice As Mean
"Oh, gee - it's Go-Frag-Yourself-O'Clock."
New Wyrm!! Now with Twice the Bastard!!

Laés is ... I forget. -PiXeL01
Play the game. Don't try to win it.

The Jake

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« Reply #21 on: <01-15-12/0733:26> »
Nigel Findley was the one that got me hooked on SR and kept me hooked for years and has been a big source of inspiration for my gaming.

May he rest in peace.

- J.
Frag you guys, I'm going home.

CitizenJoe

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« Reply #22 on: <01-15-12/0957:04> »
Marty Stu is the male form

CanRay

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« Reply #23 on: <01-15-12/1059:09> »
*Pours another 40 on the curb*
Si vis pacem, para bellum

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The_Gun_Nut

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« Reply #24 on: <01-15-12/1129:52> »
Argent and the Wrecking Crew: yes, Mary Sues.  Incredibly competent?  Check.  Always wins?  Check.  (Doesn't matter if they get the shit kicked out of them on the way; real people lose.  Gets along with other PCs / Main Good-Guy Characters instantly?  Check.

Mary ******* Sues.
If you go by that logic, then every recurring character in every TV show or novel for the last few centuries is a Mary Sue.  Harry Dresden?  Mary Sue.  John Carter of Mars?  Mary Sue.  Catherine Willows of CSI?  Mary Sue.  Dr. Gregory House?  Mary S...ok well, maybe not him, because he doesn't get along with anyone.

Your definiton needs some clarification, please.
There is no overkill.

Only "Open fire" and "I need to reload."

CanRay

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« Reply #25 on: <01-15-12/1144:39> »
So, we have Dr. House and Sherlock Holmes that aren't Mary Sues.  That it?  Well, Harry might not count, he doesn't like a lot of his allies, of course, that might be because they want to kill him or have plans to do so.
Si vis pacem, para bellum

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The Wyrm Ouroboros

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« Reply #26 on: <01-15-12/1158:23> »
My definition really doesn't require clarification, faux-politely-asked-for or not, because in part a MS is defined by the viewer.

It is also, however, defined by the genre; John Carter of Mars is a Planetary Romance hero, which means other rules apply to him.  Dresden gets the shit kicked out of him and loses pretty regularly, at least once a book -- and upon meeting someone, is by-god not automatically bestest buddies with 'the good guys'.

In any case.  No, I'm not going to further defend my opinion; it's my opinion, mine all mine, go get your own.  Go listen to some Billy Joel, 52nd Street, Track 3.  Tired, grumpy, gonna go get some sleep.
Pananagutan & End/Line

Old As McBean, Twice As Mean
"Oh, gee - it's Go-Frag-Yourself-O'Clock."
New Wyrm!! Now with Twice the Bastard!!

Laés is ... I forget. -PiXeL01
Play the game. Don't try to win it.

KarmaInferno

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« Reply #27 on: <01-15-12/1256:43> »
Er, the traditional definition of a "mary sue" is not merely that they always win the endgame. If that were the case then 90% of stories would be defined as starring them.

It's in their depiction. They typically are handsome and liked by everyone that matters. They often are good at whatever task they need to do, even if (and especially if) they have no reason to be skilled in that area. They don't seem to have any real flaws, or if they do the flaws are set up in such a way that they either aren't really a flaw or are even an advantage.



-k

ArkangelWinter

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« Reply #28 on: <01-15-12/1351:28> »
Old school Superman: World's Worst Mary Sue

FastJack

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« Reply #29 on: <01-15-12/1352:38> »
So, we have Dr. House and Sherlock Holmes that aren't Mary Sues.  That it?  Well, Harry might not count, he doesn't like a lot of his allies, of course, that might be because they want to kill him or have plans to do so.
Ironically, Dr. House is Sherlock Holmes (kinda).