Shadowrun

Shadowrun Play => Rules and such => Topic started by: Glyph on <09-18-10/1531:48>

Title: Martial arts maneuver question
Post by: Glyph on <09-18-10/1531:48>
Arsenal has the martial arts quality, which allows you to buy maneuvers.  Now, the martial arts itself is a quality, but I have also seen a lot of people counting the maneuvers  towards the 35 point limit of positive qualities.

Nowhere in the rules does it say that the maneuvers are qualities, but it doesn't say exactly what they are, either.  I have always put them in with skills, but while I disagree with counting them as qualities, I can see how people could reason that.

So what does everyone think?  Do they count as qualities, or not?  I would really like for a dev to chime in - it would be great to have a semi-official answer on this.
Title: Re: Martial arts maneuver question
Post by: anotherJack on <09-18-10/1536:12>
They are not qualities, they are already limited by your martial art advantage level.
Title: Re: Martial arts maneuver question
Post by: Devil on <09-18-10/1548:43>
Jack's right.
Title: Re: Martial arts maneuver question
Post by: Critias on <09-18-10/1832:34>
If it doesn't say they're qualities, they're not.  What's more, given how they're priced -- the same as specializations -- I, personally, would lump them in with skill points (for games that keep track of where each point gets spent).
Title: Re: Martial arts maneuver question
Post by: FastJack on <09-19-10/0050:51>
I agree with everyone else. If anything, add them as a sub-specialization of the Martial Arts specialization to the Unarmed Combat skill.
Title: Re: Martial arts maneuver question
Post by: Devil on <09-19-10/0751:43>
If you take the quality do you still need a skill specialization?
Title: Re: Martial arts maneuver question
Post by: Usda Beph on <09-19-10/0823:53>
They are not qualities, they are already limited by your martial art advantage level.
What does this mean? are we talking about the 5,10,15,20 BP lvl? If so how does this affect the manuvers?
Title: Re: Martial arts maneuver question
Post by: Irian on <09-19-10/0840:14>
The rules say, that you may only take 2 maneuvers per 5BP in the quality.
Title: Re: Martial arts maneuver question
Post by: Devil on <09-19-10/0844:59>
Why do people keep lumping them in with skills? They are really nothing like skills. They seem fairly unrelated too.
Title: Re: Martial arts maneuver question
Post by: Irian on <09-19-10/0846:35>
You don't NEED the skill specialization, it's purely optional - but as this will provide a nice bonus most of the time...
Title: Re: Martial arts maneuver question
Post by: Usda Beph on <09-19-10/0853:14>
I think its because there is more room for skills than qualities *shrug*
Title: Re: Martial arts maneuver question
Post by: Devil on <09-19-10/0903:53>
Yeah the Shadowrun character sheets have never worked well for me. Too much room for this, not enough room for that, I don't even use that!

Now I typically just print my dude out of Word, leaving things blank that change often and filling them in pencil.

The character sheets are pretty, but really a game like this needs separate types of character sheets for different types of characters.
Title: Re: Martial arts maneuver question
Post by: Usda Beph on <09-19-10/0917:41>
Once I'm comfortable I have made D&D and CBTRPG sheets in excel that pumps the fomulas where they are needed so things like Init and stuff auto fill. Really nice for lazy gamers like myself. ;D
Title: Re: Martial arts maneuver question
Post by: Devil on <09-19-10/0922:57>
I'd do that in Indesign, but I'm too damn lazy. I'd be interested in seeing yours if you ever make any though.

Maybe someone out there has already made a character sheet with a specific spot for things like Martial Arts Maneuvers and Enemies. That would be pretty sweet.
Title: Re: Martial arts maneuver question
Post by: Usda Beph on <09-19-10/0940:40>
Well there is that 10 page pdf that was posted. I don't remember if it had slots for enemies, but it is pretty darn comprihensive.
Title: Re: Martial arts maneuver question
Post by: FastJack on <09-19-10/1313:09>
If you take the quality do you still need a skill specialization?
No, but as stated before, it makes sense to if you're using the Martial Arts rule.
Title: Re: Martial arts maneuver question
Post by: Critias on <09-19-10/1523:41>
Why do people keep lumping them in with skills? They are really nothing like skills. They seem fairly unrelated too.
Because their BP costs fit in more neatly with skills than they do with Qualities, and because there's a 35 bp hard cap on Qualities.  When in doubt -- during character creation -- my gut reaction is always to screw the character as little as possible.  Having Martial Arts already suck points from Qualities is one thing I house rule away, and I can't think of any reason to lump maneuvers in there, too (to further eat into the 35).
Title: Re: Martial arts maneuver question
Post by: Kontact on <09-21-10/0312:01>
Affirmative.  Martial Arts training is not a character trait.