[The_Gun_Nut]

Their powers can also be completely neutralized by the unscrupulous or tech savvy.  Anti-wireless coatings and hard tech neuters technomancers (to a large and significant degree) and FAB III is a (relatively) cheap way to keep magic types grounded.  Not to mention that any essence loss translates directly into unrecoverable power loss.  Not so for the cash guys.  Lose some cyber to an EMP?  Just buy new.  Your custom drone crashed and burned after taking a missile hit?  Go buy another.  Oh, mage, you just lost a magic point forever?  Shucks, it sucketh to be you.

They karma hungry types are potent, but they can lose it all if they aren't careful.  The cash flow guys just need to buy more.  To get stronger, they go shopping.  To replace lost powers, they go shopping.  To correct essence lost through cyber or bio, they go shopping.

Not saying that the karma users aren't potent and get more potent, cause they do (and how)!  I'm just supplying a little perspective, here.

[Darkeus]

I just think Karma for cash is just a really bad idea.  I have plenty of things I can dump on runners to relieve them of all the temporary money.

Nothing is Shadowrun is easily obtained or easily kept.

[The_Gun_Nut]

Which is still easily replaced.  For those of questionable morals, running BTL's, drugs, or organlegging (including the wetwork side of it) is extremely profitable.  Money can flow like water in SR.  While they might not hold onto it long, they can dip into the money stream and get some neat toys and upgrades out of it.

I don't agree with simply taking the money away on a whim, or deciding that they have too much of it.  Present a scenario, and leave the choice of what to do with the cash up to the players.  Of course, sometimes an adversary will come along that the only thing one can do is watch the money leave, but I don't recommend that as a way to "balance" cash flow.

If you don't like the karma for cash, that's fine.  It's not for everyone.  I just like the flexibility and choice it gives to my players.

[Darkeus]

Which is still easily replaced.  For those of questionable morals, running BTL's, drugs, or organlegging (including the wetwork side of it) is extremely profitable.  Money can flow like water in SR.  While they might not hold onto it long, they can dip into the money stream and get some neat toys and upgrades out of it.

I don't agree with simply taking the money away on a whim, or deciding that they have too much of it.  Present a scenario, and leave the choice of what to do with the cash up to the players.  Of course, sometimes an adversary will come along that the only thing one can do is watch the money leave, but I don't recommend that as a way to "balance" cash flow.

If you don't like the karma for cash, that's fine.  It's not for everyone.  I just like the flexibility and choice it gives to my players.

Dude, I don't even have to be cruel GM to think of ways money can disappear in Shadowrun.

Hell, money should be tight for the PC's anyway!  Maybe I am just an old skool Shadowrun GM but having too much money should not be a problem unless they paid for that money in character creation with a lifestyle choice!

Shadowrun is still dystopia right?  Still SINless (a money dump in itself) individuals trying to eke a living while sticking it to the man right?  I guess I am saying that figuring out where to spend all of the money should be the least of their problems!  Pissed off corps, rival runner teams, paying to stay anonymous, pissed off organized crime when those enterprising Shadowrunners start selling drugs and undercutting the big boys.

As much as I think karma for cash is a bad idea, I don't even see where I would have to use that! 

I think some of you may be paying your runners too much money!   

But like I always say, your campaign may vary!  If you are having fun with Shadowrun, that is really all that matters.

[System]

Besides, the idea of runners constantly shopping for bigger and better toys is a fantasy unless your campaign is dumping boatloads of money in their laps. 

How much better of a gun can a samurai buy?  How many runs is he going to have to complete before he can afford the Betaware version of his cyberware, and then he's only made a moderate gain at best.    His ammunition and grenades are expended and have to be replaced.  They don't "just go shopping".  Cash hungry builds are the slowest advancing types in the game unless you pay them too much.   With average Karma awards a mage can learn a new spell every adventure.  I somehow doubt the samurai is getting a bigger and better gun or a cyberware upgrade at anywhere near that rate.

I'd also be curious to learn how often Essence loss occurs in your campaign.

[The_Gun_Nut]

Cash payments from Johnsons progressively increases as the runners reputation advances and their experience broadens.  This allows the cash hungry players more and more opportunities to "just go shopping."  Karma payments, however, stay pretty much the same mission per mission while the needs of those who use more karma become more and more pronounced.  This leads to a plateau effect for the mages/technos, while those who just need cash keep advancing at a steady rate.

Essence loss doesn't occur that often at all.  The meer threat of it is enough to hyper-sensitize everyone and they tend to focus on the thing that can drain essence.  Mostly focus bullets.

[Critias]

I really don't understand the folks that act like Mages don't need money for anything.  I understand that there's a tendency for them to want karma more and mundanes to want money more -- but I think over time folks have gotten so "two party system" about it, exaggerated it, to the point where some folks are talking like mundanes only advance financially and Mages only advance through karma.  Everyone needs everything, plain and simple.

Find me a Mage that's got "too much money" and I'll find you someone who's not investing properly in spell formulas, hermetic libraries, summoning/binding materials, fetish items, mundane 'running gear, and Foci.  There's plenty of stuff that nickels and dimes away at a Mages nuyen, and plenty of stuff that takes giant bites out of it.  I have to wonder what's getting glossed over or misunderstood or something -- maybe on my part, I dunno -- in these instances were folks talk about their Mages just rolling in nuyen.

[Kontact]

In my experience it's usually Adepts who hit a money cap.  Mages have foci and binding components and all sorts of expenses. 

I suppose Adepts usually grab some bioware, so they could blow exorbitant sums on Delta grade body bits.  A lvl 3 Synaptic Accelerator is cheaper on the PPs than Improved Reflexes III.  It's also the kind of thing that costs a lot of cash.

[Ghost]

investing in rare books dealing in the Arcane are just money sinks.

Normally my mage characters justify their cash for karma with buying rare books/artifacts/etc. I had one who used his running money to privately fund their research so it would have no outside influence.