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Any news on Run Faster becoming legal?

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runarm

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« Reply #30 on: <03-20-15/1119:27> »
I don't get it - how exactly do human characters break sum-2-ten? So far I've not been able to come up with a viable character type that I can make better with sum-2-ten than with say, karmagen - but then again, I'm probably missing something, which is why I honestly would like to know exactly how this potential breaking occurs.

R.

prionic6

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« Reply #31 on: <03-20-15/1137:41> »
Human mundane chars would typically use E for magic and D for metatype, resulting in EDG 5. Giving up two of those edge points to get 4 points of attributes or 10/5 skills or almost 20000 ¥ is pretty much a no-brainer and very powerful.

SichoPhiend

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« Reply #32 on: <03-20-15/1150:58> »
As for how it could potentially break char gen, and I stress potentially, as I don't see may people making a character with this exact assortment of stats (Though I suspect it would make a killer missions face)

Sum 2 ten A(4) in attributes, A(4) in skills, C(2) in Rescources, E(0) for race and magic (Only matters because humans get 1 special at choice E)
            Rating            Cost
Bod           3         25 karma
Agi           3         25 karma
Rea           3         25 karma
Str           2         10 karma
Wil           5         70 karma
Cha           6         100 karma
Log           5         70 karma
Int           5         70 karma
Edge   3         15 karma
410 karma for the attributes and edge (And I'm sure if I tried I could raise this eve higher)

The skill could look like this
            Rating
Skill 1                6         42 karma
Skill 2                6         42 karma
Skill 3                6         42 karma
Skill 4                6         42 karma
Skill 5                6         42 karma
Skill 6                6         42 karma
Skill 7                6         42 karma
Skill 8                4         20 karma
group skill 1     6         105 karma
group skill 2     4         50 karma
469 karma for skills (This I'm pretty sure is the worst case scenario for karma)
      
Rescources 140,000      70 karma

949 karma so far and I haven't even started on knowledge skills and contacts

As I said, this is a potential problem build character just thrown together in a few minutes as an example, as metahumans have to spend points in race, it's less of an issue for them, but I can see where the potential human abuse ruling came from.

Now, I will freely admit that I haven't compared this to the potential karma cost of a standard build character under the base priority system,I would expect that there are already builds that far exceed 800 karma, hence why it was ruled to allow karmagen as they may have a tendency to be a bit weaker.

But I would recommend that people try to make their concept character in both systems to see which way it comes out more to your liking

(edited to include potential numbers change for prionic6 post)

But to compare
Human mundane chars would typically use E for magic and D for metatype, resulting in EDG 5. Giving up two of those edge points to get 4 points of attributes or 10/5 skills or almost 20000 ¥ is pretty much a no-brainer and very powerful.

So resetting the priorities to Standard; A(4) in attributes, B(3) in skills, C(2) in Rescources, D(3) for race and (E) for magic

Without redoing the entire thing, keep the attributes the same, raise edge to 5 (increase karma cost by 45)
Only have 6 skills at rating 6 and 1 group sill at rating 5 (decrease karma cots by 142

End karma cost becomes 852, a difference of 97 karma
« Last Edit: <03-20-15/1202:32> by SichoPhiend »
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Bull

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« Reply #33 on: <03-20-15/1200:49> »
Guys, lets not argue too much.  It's also to keep things a little simpler, and generally keep everyone on a level playing field.  The ONLY reason that Karma Gen was approved is because the characters most often work out to be less powerful than what you can build with Priority.  You're sacrificing a little power for flexibility ("Everything has a Price"). 

For purposes of Missions, Priority is still considered standard.
« Last Edit: <03-20-15/1204:29> by Bull »

SichoPhiend

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« Reply #34 on: <03-20-15/1204:44> »
My apologies Bull, wasn't trying to argue, was just trying to provide a numbers example of how S2T could be imbalanced when compared to standard priority.
A wise man once said that with increased intelligence comes the increased capacity to feel pain.
Therefore, if ignorance is bliss, enlightenment must be pure hell.

runarm

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« Reply #35 on: <03-20-15/1230:47> »
Absolutely - no argument intended. I'm honestly curious about how it was worked out that humans specifically break sum-2-ten.
I've not been able to break it worse than I can with karmagen for example.

R.

Tarislar

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« Reply #36 on: <03-20-15/1303:21> »
So resetting the priorities to Standard; A(4) in attributes, B(3) in skills, C(2) in Rescources, D(3) for race and (E) for magic

Without redoing the entire thing, keep the attributes the same, raise edge to 5 (increase karma cost by 45)
Only have 6 skills at rating 6 and 1 group sill at rating 5 (decrease karma cots by 142

End karma cost becomes 852, a difference of 97 karma

Skills is pretty much considered a trap, its the most Karma intensive, which is what your grading on, but its also the least useful stat on the chart.

An Attributes jump, if done to raise a 1 to a 5 is 70 Karma v/s "Avg" 55 for SP is only a 15 Karma difference.

But I'm honestly not sure its equal.  1 die on any random skill check isn't a lot of difference.  Loosing 2 points of Edge can change the way you run the character. 

Either way I'm now curious to see what Positive Qualities get removed as that is the more interesting choice for me.

jim1701

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« Reply #37 on: <03-20-15/1520:27> »
There has been some debate on the forums as to whether or not karma gen gets the free contact points from charisma and the free knowledge points from LOG + INT that you get from the priority system.  Is it too late to add a note to the FAQ explicitly stating whether you do get the free points or not?  Thanks. 

Tarislar

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« Reply #38 on: <03-20-15/1743:58> »
I don't get it - how exactly do human characters break sum-2-ten? So far I've not been able to come up with a viable character type that I can make better with sum-2-ten than with say, karmagen - but then again, I'm probably missing something, which is why I honestly would like to know exactly how this potential breaking occurs.
It wouldn't be so bad if Humans were shafted to begin with.  They go up by 2 SP per level.  Meanwhile EVERY other Race goes up by 3-5 per jump.
And all of them except Except Elves have more bonus Attributes than the max 4-pt Jump in Attr you get from A-B-C.  Meanwhile C-D-E are only 2 point jumps so actually Elves are ahead there too. 

ScytheKnight

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« Reply #39 on: <03-20-15/1748:07> »
Glad we hadn't started out game yet.. was doing Sum-to-10 and had both a shifter and a changeling in the group... looks like there's going to be a lot of reworking in the next couple of weeks.
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Bull

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« Reply #40 on: <03-21-15/0132:06> »
FAQ is now up, check the sticky topic for the link.

As a note, after some discussion and deliberation, we decided to allow both Sum to 10 and Life Path.  However, characters created under both of these are subject to approval and need to be fully audited and signed off on by a registered Catalyst Demo Team Agent.  You cannot show up at a time sensitive game with one expecting approval either, it needs to be done in advance or elsewhere.  So keep that in mind. And don't abuse the system.  the Demo team can and does report what's going on, and if we start getting reports of characters minmaxed even worse than they already are, we can and will rescind this policy :)

Enjoy! :)

runarm

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« Reply #41 on: <03-21-15/0530:27> »
Thanks Bull :)
My players will be very happy with this, and I have no issue with keeping them in line, character-creation-wise.

R.

Vandarl

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« Reply #42 on: <03-21-15/1110:23> »
WooHoo! Thank you Bull. Getting the work done while putting up with impatient gamers has got to be a massive pain, You Da Ork!

Kincaid

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« Reply #43 on: <03-21-15/1116:06> »
Yay!  All my hopes for qualities made the cut.
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AJCarrington

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« Reply #44 on: <03-21-15/1134:25> »
Great to see this Bull. Do you know if there are any plans to incorporate this into the "formal" FAQ and/or errata?